Discussion about ST and rotations

[Andaas]

Ok... I think we have gotten all the arguing out of our systems, lets wipe the slate clean and start a discussion on this as I think there is enough reason for this zone to be treated a bit differently due to its keyed nature.

I propose that from now on, we allow the current guild that is up for the warders an extra 24 hour period in order to secure the necessary forces for this dungeon. Until every guild has 50+ ST keys, it is likely that any of us can get caught with our pants down when we learn in the late afternoon that our warders have spawned.

This applies for ALL ST guilds - I am not looking for special rules for Hoss, but trying to make life easier for everyone.

Every other item in our rotation list can be done with any member from a guild - ST unfortunately excludes 50-60% of the guild (or more) due to the rareness of the keys. This seems like a way to help everyone out.

Oh, and as a show of good faith to prove that I am not making this "rule" up to aid Hoss in the future - Hoss will not apply this rule to ourselves until our following rotation slot (ie, not until we have had our next ST raid will this apply to us), but I would be happy to apply this rule to everyone else now.

That way the "extension" that we just used doesn't come into play -- this rule was thought of to make life easier for everyone.

[Baramos1]

Mythic already responded to this, more than once, in the rotations thread.

We plan to continue the rotations for ST, as the rules apply.

Another thing, normally I don't place much merit in logs of conversations or posts that claim to be from other peoples' private boards, but I find this disturbing:

====================

http://pub16.ezboard.com/fdruzzilro86846generaldiscussion.showMessage?topic ID=1253.topic

Post:

What we need to do about Sleepers..

I am kind of sick of dealing with ML over the ST stuff from this week, so I
think Hoss needs to make a mark to ensure that they tread carefully with us.

Basically, I propose that over then next 2 weeks we push very hard to farm
ST keys from Kland / Sont. Kland is a bastard now and a tough fight, so he
isn't farmed like the gimp mob he used to be anymore.

Then, come our next "rotation" slot in ST, we kill warders 1, 2, and 4.

What this will do is set a precedent to the other capable guilds on the
server. It says that Hoss can come and eat from the ST buffet whenever the
hell we want, and if they don't want to play by our rules, then we will just
shut off the supply of primal weapons from the server completely.


--ebil Andy

__________________
Andaas Taranis
Druidicus Corpsus

Hoss playing hardball. kkthx


====================

In any case, ML will continue to kill Warders per the rotation schedule, and rules.

Baramos

[Andaas]

Hoss will do the same then - and that can work to the benefit and difficulty for both of us.

[Sirensa]

lol that's humorous.

Nearly as funny as the guy who impersonated Andaas posting nasty things about me on badgamers.com

Some people have entirely too much time on their hands.

[Rohaise]

Oh great, here we go again.

That's sounding a lot like the post Ubar made from Vindication a month or so ago.

Hoss, is that for real?

I take it from your lack of acknowledgment that it can only be true.

[Rohaise]

So Sirensa, are you denying that Andaas ever made those remarks?

Your post was conspicuously unclear.

[Yendii]

If ML wants to kill the Warders every time they spawn and Hoss wants only wants to kill the Warders maybe once a month, that doesn't sound like a rotational mob to me. It sounds like an "unrotated uber".

It will be a while yet before L`Malla is doing the warders and as we are learning them we won't merit an actual rotation spot. It will also disadvantage us to us to only be able to pratice once a rotation, that's obvious I won't try to hide it. But looking back in the archives Hoss didn't initally want the warders to be rotated they basicly wanted to do a "hand-shake" agreement once a month or so.

Statue was being rotated, or at least Hoss and L`Malla thought we were rotating it, yet it was removed from the rotation list because it was deemed to be not truely rotated. I get the feeling that the warders won't be truely rotated either, it will go something like Hoss, ML, Hoss(p), ML, Hoss(p), ML, Hoss. Because killing the warders when they don't even need the primal at that moment when they could be killing other mobs that they do want loot from will be a headache.

Maybe I'm way off base, and you both will be taking your turns per the rotation guidlines, or maybe Vindi will get back some steam and want to join the warder rotation as well. This is just my contribution to the clean slate discussion on how ST should be treated.

[Andaas]

With all the crap that ML has been nitpicking over this week, I think you can see how/why a post like that could/would have been made.

There is no "threat" to be made with this, just a simple fact that primal weapons are a luxury and not a right. It is very easy for either of us to turn the faucet off and hurt the other... just like the cold war, who will press the button first.

Did I make that post? Yep. Wait until the loser that has access posts my follow-up, you'll love it, really.

In the end however, Hoss does intend to kill the 4th warder, however regardless of anything I may have posted, I don't think I could bring myself to kill him as the last warder - no matter how pissed off I am at ML for getting on my nerves. Any of the 4 warders can stand and keep the sleeper under control.

Siren tried to protect me a bit here, and I adore her for it, but there is no need to hide anything. Sorry if I upset you Siren.

[Baramos1]

This admission of attitude and post is exactly why Mythic Legion does not trust Hoss.

In light of your earlier comment, just today, that Hoss isn't out to "get " ML, but just ensure your fair share of spawns, you'll pardon me if I call you a liar.

I think this post of yours, emotion or not, is not only irresponsible in terms of the fact that your guild members look to you for direction, and leadership, but is also reflective of your character.

I think we know exactly what to expect from Hoss, now, and we will plan accordingly.

Baramos

[Andaas]

Whee!

[Sirensa]

Your post was conspicuously unclear.
Because it is none of your business what is said or isn't said on our boards. We don't owe you a confession of any sorts. We don't discuss your private board, don't discuss ours.


I think we know exactly what to expect from Hoss, now, and we will plan accordingly
As if you weren't planning accordingly anyways. As if we care. Your guild - your business. Our guild - our business.

[Thanatoz]

holy christ!

This is reminding me of the cold war.

I hope nobody feels the need to push the button. Its clear discussions are going down the shitter. However I dont really care what is said in the Hoss private forums. Its meant as just that, private. I know full well every warder capable guild has thrown the idea of releasing the sleeper. ML, Hoss, Vind. It really is no secret you can do it. And you have all thought about it.

Before someone does do it. I say we enact some sort of pact. hell call it Nato, UN or whatever. The ONLY thing that would keep a guild from doing this fear of retaliation. You can sure as shit not count on respect for other guilds. My suggestion is that if any guild kills all 4 warders they be removed from the IGB and thus will meet the resistance from a unified IGB on all spawns.

Sounds corny yes, but I see it as the only assurance to keep guilds from nuking the server.

It saddens me that these talks have come to this. The road ML and Hoss are driving us down is server ffa and chaos.

[Andaas]

I actually like your proposal Thanatoz.. and it sounds fair enough to me. Releasing the sleeper should result in the guild responsible for being cut from this forum completely.

[Baramos1]

Actually, Sirensa, I'd thought we were making some headway today, and was hopeful for some progress ala the posts Andaas made, and that I'd made.

I was actually thinking that we might start some in-game dialogue, soon.

The childish leadership in Hoss (wheeee) will probably make anything other than very brisk relations, impossible, however. I think Hoss leadership would do well to take its own advice, and grow up.

What a shame.

With as many keys as ML currently has, and the rate we acquire them, we could easily kill all of the Warders. No problem. However, this isn't currently on our agenda, and especially not as a way to impose ourselves on other guilds.

In fact, I approached Dlgoth just last week to begin preliminary discussions about our ability to kill all the Warders, and how we could fit L`Malla into the scheme of things.

The only thing I see at this point as hope for anything other than very chilly relations between the two ST capable guilds at this point, is Andaas's admission. Apparently, he sometimes draws the line at outright lying.

Even so, as always, I'm available online to discuss this nonsense, or at chronogr@ix.netcom.com.

Baramos

[Thanatoz]

I think all IGB guilds should agree to the above terms.

[Sirensa]

Not that it matters in the spirit of things - but all 4 warders respawned with the patch on Mithanial Marr one week after Afterlife killed all four warders.

I never believed the Sleeper script would permanatenly banish Primal from a server.

So perhaps the script has been tuned.

Personally - I am not worried. But isn't it fun to think about doing something that impactful. Thinking about doing it. Not actually doing it. There is a difference. Threats or not.

And please no more name calling. I am tired of it.

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

Well, we didn't discuss much other than "we'd like to kill the 4th warder, lets discuss it when your free".

Basically to me that meant free the sleeper, since there was no mention of killing him out of sequence (i.e. leaving one up). Didn't quite sit well with me, since it would basically screw my guild (and as we all know, our main intentions here are looking out for our guilds), but I haven't had the time to continue the discussion..

And for what it's worth, I agree with the "pact". There's no reason to free the sleeper other than to slaughter some unsuspecting people in a few zones and say "woo wee look at me we free'd the sleeper, its a server first" which well, is pretty lame to me. Bragging rights in this game are pointless, unless you really enjoy measuring the size of your unit against other guilds that pretty much do the same things you do but on a different server. Hell, its not like it'd be a big deal.. Wow, sleeper free'd on Druzzil. What's that, server #10 now anyways? Old news.

[Andaas]

My goal is to see the loot that Ventani drops -- each warder drops several unique pieces in addition to the primal. Not to mention that Ventani is a much more difficult fight than the first 3 warders, and I want to see what it takes to beat him.

While I think it would have been funny as hell to release the sleeper one afternoon while ML was just about to engage Yelinak, I'm afraid that my ebil plans will never come to fruition. ;)

[Baramos1]

I like your idea, Thanatoz.

However, this implies a level of trust that Mythic currently does not have, for Hoss.

Just because they say, in other words, that they don't intend to kill all the Warders here, doesn't mean they don't.

Andaas's post makes clear that he intended to strongarm every Warder capable guild with his finger on the trigger.

As I said earlier, my normal inclination is to think reposts of internal communications are bullshit, but Andaas admits he wrote the post.

He posted here, "Gee can't we all get along."

Then on his private board he posts, by his own admission, that if they don't want to play by our rules, then we will just shut off the supply of primal weapons from the server completely

"Our rules." Not IGB rules. Implication is they will make the rules, and if anyone else doesn't like it, tough.

This affects every single IGB member here, who wants to go to ST, who wants to continue to abide by the rules of the IGB.

The threat, that Andaas denies above, is that once Hoss decides the rules are inconvenient to them, they'll just do whatever they want.

We've already seen this, in the last week.

So what are we to believe? The glib Andaas who preaches love and camaraderie here or the private one who plans deceptive, strongarming tactics?

I don't know, and as I've been saying all day today until I'm blue in the face, the next several weeks will tell the story.

Mythic won't agree to any terms regarding the Sleeper and IGB arrangements, therefore, until Hoss demonstrates they can be trusted.

What Hoss does, in other words, will shape our actions.

Not what they say.


Baramos

edit: formatting - grr

[Baramos1]

Dlgoth -

My intention, as I told you, in approaching you, was as preliminary discussion.

I don't know why this "didn't sit well with you." You were busy with Dain, and said you'd get ahold of me later. I logged early, so maybe you tried. In any case the thrust of my conversation was going to be this:

At some time in the future, ML, or even better yet, and as I posted in my first post on this board, many reps of guilds under all banners could conceivably get together to release the Sleeper.

I personally believe that this would be an epic achievement of cooperation. And yes, it would be outstanding if both Hoss and ML reps were there, in addition to all the rest.

I think Druzzil has untapped potential as a server. All this bickering among us, the lack of trust, the snide asides, just makes us all weaker.

The IGB, even in all our recent bickering, is still the place to make something like this a reality.

And, I still have hope.

Baramos

[Andaas]

The threat, that Andaas denies above, is that once Hoss decides the rules are inconvenient to them, they'll just do whatever they want.

To clarify on my above post...

What this will do is set a precedent to the other capable guilds on the server. It says that Hoss can come and eat from the ST buffet whenever the hell we want, and if they don't want to play by our rules, then we will just shut off the supply of primal weapons from the server completely.

The statement there has far more to do with Hoss wanting/requesting to do ST on weekend days, and being forced by ML to do it during the week based on rotation/spawn timing. The fact is, given any guild that is currently farming any particular spawn, they should be fairly forgiving on any other guild that wants to take a shot, especially in a zone with the entry restrictions such as Sleepers.

Note how nobody is forcing ML to take their shot at North ToV within 24 hours of the first named mobs respawning. Why is that? Because the other guilds that have been there know that it takes some preparation to go into that area of the game. ML requested to go to NToV the weekend starting October 5th... so that section of ToV will sit unused for 4 or 5 days while ML waits until *they* are ready.

[Thanatoz]

Im glad we all agree.

[Baramos1]

LOL