More ST rotation discussion

[Andaas]

Ok.. so now we reach a new issue that we should all discuss regarding ST/warders.

I am sure that we all agree that the 3 warders should all be inclusive to 1 rotation slot... however, when a guild only kills a portion of the warders and leaves the zone, what do we do with the leftovers?

ML last night went into ST and killed the 2nd and 3rd warders. The servers went down tonight, so ST will be a full spawn tomorrow. As I originally saw it, the claim to ST belongs to ML "post patch". However, ML also took 2/3 of the warder spawns from another guilds previous raid - are these to be considered "freebies"? That doesn't seem fair after I think about it.

Given that the situation presented itself just from the recent raid, I am not worried about the ST spawn that is up on Friday for Hoss. However, I would like to discuss this issue for the future, as we should have some rules defined as to how to handle this that all can agree to.

This situation will obviously be handled differently with ST than it will for say North ToV (where clearing it in 1 day is not possible at any level)... but we should try to figure out how to handle ST now before there are 3 or more guilds in the rotation.

North ToV will be something we should start discussing soon as well, since there are many issues with that area of the game that multiple guilds sharing spawns within will need to agree upon beforehand.

[Quintall_ML]

Andaas,

Given that Hoss made so much hubbub about leaving them up as a goodwill gesture, and so that no Primal would rot, this post comes across 'almost' hypocritical.

What is it that Hoss wants?

You post to make a rotation, then post not to, now post to determine one. Pardon me if it's all a bit confusing as to the aims here, I'm just asking, at face value, for a clarification.

[Baramos1]

I think the ST situation is fairly obvious.

Any "uncleaned up" MOBs from a prior raid should be removed.

As long as only Hoss and ML are in the rotation, this won't be an issue, and by the time other guilds enter the rotation, ML could well be gone, for good. Let's cross that bridge when we come to it.

As for NToV guidelines, we'll discuss those after our October 5 raid when we're more acquainted with the situation there.

Baramos

edit: Edited per my vow today not to flame.

[Baramos1]

Actually, let's start discussing ToV N, now.

Andaas, what are the issues there?

What is your proposal?

Baramos

[Yendii]

In another thread ML was the only guild unwilling to agree not to release the Sleeper. Now in this thread Bara mentions ML being gone for good, do you mean gone from ST or gone from Druzzil-Ro? If you mean gone from ST do you plan to release the Sleeper when you have enough primal? If you mean gone from the server do you plan to release the the Sleeper before you go?

As far as left over warders, seems like they should be FFA but treated like "unrotated ubers" meaning the guild that was there the night before has to give the other guilds the option of first crack at them.

Maybe I should STFU because I haven't even zoned into ST, but we've been getting keys and we will go to ST to kill warders at some point. We probably won't be able to kill 1-3 when we first attempt them and no way in hell should this be considered a partial fail.

[Baramos1]

Yend, no. =)

Mythic Legion has absolutely no plans to screw over this server by removing the supply of primal from the game.

My reaction was to Hoss's post, where it was said they may do just that, if they didn't get their way.

My wait-and-see attitude is a result of the admission by Hoss, of this.

In my very first post on this board, this is what I had to say:

I propose that we, at the leadership level, stop looking at each other as the enemy.

I propose that we, at the leadership level, help to make our respective guild members understand that FFA war, seeking revenge, and being angry will only lead us to playing the game angrily, and vengefully. I don't want an angry mob of Vind stomping through ToV N as we're working there, any more than anyone wants a horde of ML stomping through, as they are.

I propose we begin to open a dialog between guild leaders (the folks on this board) in-game, to prevent the insanity that we've seen the last week. I am always available for such dialog, and as I said above, I'm willing to work to foster good relations between us dynamically, online, by reacting to issues.

Last, and believe it or not, I propose that we incrementally move forward to a time when we can work amicably on the server, rather than in "trust but verify" detente mode.

The potential power on this server is astonishing. It's too bad, in my opinion, that we don't tap it, instead of bickering.

I wouldn't mind, one of these days, seeing the top guilds on this server marching into ST together, under all our banners, and waking the Sleeper.

Working for the glory of Druzzil, as well as our individual guilds, is an opportunity we haven't seized.

I still have hopes for this kind of arrangement.

I honestly think the arguments between Mythic and Hoss are a flash-in-the-pan, and will resolve themselves through continued discussion on this forum.

Baramos

[Quintall_ML]

Read Bara's post again Yend.

He's not saying we will kill the Sleeper. He's saying we won't make such an agreement as that until such time as we feel Hoss' actions in game reflect a relationship more worthy of the trust entailed in making such an agreement.

We're not leaving D Ro. Not even if it split. What he means, is, like with Nagafen, VS, Vox, Trak, etc, etc, etc, there will come a time where an ML trip into ST will be very rare. ST is a pit stop on the road, we don't intend to live there if we can help it.

[Rohaise]

I just want to clear up the parts of Andaas' original post that were incorrect.

>ML also took 2/3 of the warder spawns from another guilds previous raid - are these to be considered "freebies"?

You posted yesterday that they would be.

Also, we did not "take" them. You failed to kill them. In that case they, by my understanding of the rotation agreements, they now "belong" to the next guild in the rotation.


>I am not worried about the ST spawn that is up on Friday for Hoss.

Correction - you stated yesterday that ML would be up for the next warder spawn. Why are you posting now that Hoss is up for the next spawn?


Now, back to the question of how to handle ST rotations.

I see a couple options. 1) Rotate whole zone, or 2) Rotate individual warders

First Option: Entire zone is considered on rotation. When your turn is up, you have 24 hours to kill whatever you can. After that time, whatever is left alive becomes a "freebie" for the other guild on rotation. This includes Golems, and Warders. If a third guild enters the rotation, then we will derive new rules at that time, possible a sub-rotation of the "freebies", or possibly something else like Yendii mentioned.

Second Option: We treat each warder as a separate rotation mob. In our current situation, the hypothetical solution (assuming no prior agreements had been made), would be that ML is up for Nanzata, and Hoss is up for Tukaarak and Hraashna.

I see many problems with Option #2. For one thing, both guilds would have to be inside ST tonight. Two guilds raiding separate warders at the same time is simply not feasible, as those who have been there understand.

Another problem, is that if guilds fail, the warder spawns will begin to be staggered days apart. We will see multi-day ST raids, and what is normally a 3 hour raid once a week to kill 3 dragons, now becomes a few hours 3 days a week. In addition, every patch would *always* have at least two guilds up for separate warders, bringing us once again to having two guilds in there on the same day.

Option #2, treating Warders as individual spawns, is not just not feasible.

Option #1, treating the entire zone as a "rotation mob", seems to be the only possible way to handle this logistically.


If we choose Option #1, what we have left to work out is how to handle those Warders that a guild was unable to kill. I think the fairest way is for the guild who lost to admit failure, and they go to the other guild as "freebies". You get your attempt, and if you lose, you shouldn't be able to continue to hold up other guilds who are waiting patiently in line. If we get a 3rd guild into rotation, then the other two guilds can keep their own separate freebie rotation, or it can be determined by reps here on an individual spawn basis. However, having an established separate rotation for freebies can clear up any arguments.

Any other ideas?

[Andaas]

First of all, I think if you re-read my original post, you will see at no point did I ever state that Hoss felt entitled to the current ST warders that are up due to last nights patch... I went out of my way to say that we need to discuss this for FUTURE consideration. To quote my post:


Given that the situation presented itself just from the recent raid, I am not worried about the ST spawn that is up on Friday for Hoss. However, I would like to discuss this issue for the future, as we should have some rules defined as to how to handle this that all can agree to.

This may have been unclear (it was 3:30 am), and probably should have read "I am not worried about getting the ST spawn that is up on Friday for Hoss". When I wrote that, it was intended to mean that ML was on the spawn today, heh.

The current ST respawn is ML's today, and I didn't intend to change that thought.

As for "freebie" warders in the future, I think that we will have 3 guilds in the ST rotation very soon, Vindication and L`Malla will both be in the zone soon, so we best come up with a solution for the leftovers soon.

For now, I am fine with freebies going to the other guild. Like I posted the other day, Hoss didn't need the primal at the time because the 2 people that needed the primal couldn't be online on Wednesday - and we have no problem waiting until our next rotation spot to finish them off.

[Baramos1]

Ok, Hoss and ML are in agreement on the current incarnation of the ST rotation for now. When the other guilds start coming in, let's discuss the issues of "extras" at that time.

ToV N, however, merits some attention now.

Let's start pondering how we're going to handle this, now, and get the difficulties ironed out.

Mythic Legion, in the very near future, will begin to make ToV N a priority.

Hoss has the most experience there, right now, and I'm very interested to hear a proposal on their views of how to proceed.

Baramos