2h > 1h now? Judge for yourself

[Torrid]

All of this was with 95% haste.

Weapon: Primal 2h
=============
Fight Session with Mob: a greater sky drake
Start Line: 10406 End Line: 10920
Swings: 142 Highest Hit: 383
Melee Damage: 19349
Damage Recieved: 8286
Duration: 216 seconds
Damage Per Second: 89.5787037037037
--------------------------
Fight Session with Mob: Grozzmel
Start Line: 9787 End Line: 10027
Swings: 152 Highest Hit: 390
Melee Damage: 20818
Duration: 242 seconds
Damage Per Second: 86.0247933884298
--------------------------
Fight Session with Mob: a malevolent drake
Start Line: 10051 End Line: 10211
Swings: 65 Highest Hit: 294
Melee Damage: 9861
Damage Recieved: 630
Duration: 117 seconds
Damage Per Second: 84.2820512820513
--------------------------
Fight Session with Mob: an ancient guardian wurm
Start Line: 983 End Line: 1127
Swings: 62 Highest Hit: 294
Melee Damage: 8905
Duration: 109 seconds
Damage Per Second: 81.697247706422
--------------------------
Fight Session with Mob: a racnar
Start Line: 4028 End Line: 4164
Swings: 64 Highest Hit: 383
Melee Damage: 8647
Duration: 111 seconds
Damage Per Second: 77.9009009009009
"too far away" or "can't see" messages: 1
--------------------------
Fight Session with Mob: a racnar
Start Line: 779 End Line: 899
Swings: 56 Highest Hit: 307
Melee Damage: 8051
Duration: 105 seconds
Damage Per Second: 76.6761904761905
"too far away" or "can't see" messages: 1
--------------------------


Weapons: Scepter of Destruction (primary) & Primal Velium Warsword
================================================
Fight Session with Mob: a greater sky drake
Start Line: 7993 End Line: 8642
Swings: 376 Highest Hit: 126
Melee Damage: 14851
Non-Melee Damage: 1440
Damage Recieved: 3378
Duration: 202 seconds
Damage Per Second: 80.6485148514851
"too far away" or "can't see" messages: 3
--------------------------
Fight Session with Mob: a cerulean guardian
Start Line: 5213 End Line: 5819
Swings: 419 Highest Hit: 136
Melee Damage: 16887
Non-Melee Damage: 288
Damage Recieved: 4020
Duration: 216 seconds
Damage Per Second: 79.5138888888889
"too far away" or "can't see" messages: 5
--------------------------
Fight Session with Mob: a burning guardian
Start Line: 1697 End Line: 2020
Swings: 200 Highest Hit: 132
Melee Damage: 8589
Non-Melee Damage: 576
Duration: 116 seconds
Damage Per Second: 79.0086206896552
--------------------------
Fight Session with Mob: a greater sky drake
Start Line: 7051 End Line: 7967
Swings: 449 Highest Hit: 136
Melee Damage: 16901
Non-Melee Damage: 1440
Damage Recieved: 16854
Duration: 247 seconds
Damage Per Second: 74.2550607287449
"too far away" or "can't see" messages: 14
--------------------------
Fight Session with Mob: a tigerclaw racnar
Start Line: 6436 End Line: 6997
Swings: 216 Highest Hit: 174
Melee Damage: 8963
Damage Recieved: 15177
Duration: 121 seconds
Damage Per Second: 74.0743801652893
--------------------------

[Eomer]

On Xuen, Tormax Axe (37/36, no proc) basically is almost dead even with Katana of Pain/Dagarn's Tail, damage wise. 2h rocks now. Although the old addage of 2h not taunting nearly as much as 1h has gone out the window too I believe, because recently on our trip to HoT, I wouldn't even be taunting on Wurms, and occasionally aggro would swing over my way.

[Elidroth]

Mind you.. we're not talking the same caliber of weapons that many of you have.. BUT..

Dain Axe (42/43) vs Seb Croaking Dirk/Dain Hammer shows Dain Axe putting out slightly MORE dmg over a given duration.. add in the procs of the Dain Axe (125dd) and the dmg output is definitely higher.

BTW.. What log parser did you use Torrid?

Elidroth

[Torrid]

I wrote my own parser. Havn't found any others that put out what I want to see

[Eomer]

Torrid is all about "putting out"

[Tilea]

Thoereticly, let's say pally's, sk's can now equal a ranger with damage output with the right 2 hander. Soooo... that bumps us down to the lower end of offense, and of course defense as always. Woot! Thank god for Weaponshield....

[Phaera]

/casts Divine Aura

/smirks ebilly

[Eomer]

Tilea, I seriously doubt that Pally or SK's are able to do as much damage as a well equipped ranger... you guys do very similar damage to a warrior, if not more, and I doubt that Pally's or SK's are doing that much damage.

And Aedail tanked Jail just fine!

[Tilea]

Hmm... I think we should take logs from tov type mobs and see how the hybrids match up damage wise to eachother, after the changes :) I'd be curious to see the results.

Seb frogs don't count, they're just weak kunark mobs :)

[Dharrk]

Tilea, take into consideration that your offense, piercing, 1hs, 2hs, 1hb, and 2hb all cap higher than sk/pal. Given the right 2her (almost all 2hers that we can use, so can any other melee) the difference in atk is a lot higher than ours. Ranger offense 252, skills 250, sk/pal offsense 230 skils 225. Compare that with the difference in our defense and how much it does and I'd say for all purposes we are a slighly better tank (and how often we tank an uber mob is not often) and compare how much dmg you can guys can do and how much higher your atk is.
imho rangers can still outdamage an sk/pal on a high lvl mob. ^^

[Tilea]

Might be able to, might not. Doranin's running around doing double 400's or so with his spear from Cekenar (sevalak? one of them). Like i said I'd be interested to see how the hybrids all measure up. Rangers might still be ahead but the gap is much smaller for sure.

A rangers lack of ability to tank has never been a defense issue, it's a lack of hp issue :) I'd have taken a hp boost over a 20 defense boost hands down.

[Drakky]

hah, 2h needed an upgrade yes... but uh, wtf?

[Lronius de la Mancha]

that's pretty cool. Makes it so you can have some variety in the looks now as opposed to everyone dual wielding and 2h people being considered the gimps.

[Drakky]

fu clueless manwhore!:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Dharrk]

yes probly true w/ some weapons, but i think the great spear he has has a good dly on it (hard hits, high dly sorta thing) not to mention he has avatar on him ^^

and yep the gap is a lot shorter, i guess to make the sk/pal feel more of a purpose w/ melee dmg worth while

ranger hp tho :/ just think you are better off than most rogues and monks and casters :o

[Lydia]

Haha, where is variety, when they make 2h from complete junk to much better than dualwield. Now everyone will use 2h - no variety there. =P

[Tarissa]

Hey, I wonder how Rogue damage matches up now. =|

[Eomer]

Instead of doing 50% more than any other melee, it's prolly down to only 30% more! Damn monks!

[Torrid]

I've had some requests for my parser, so I'm making it available for download.


/torrid/screens/parse.jpg
what it looks like for anyone who cares

Click to Download (http://home.earthlink.net/~torrid/damagecalc.exe)


I'm more than willing to add features to it if anyone has any suggestions. I've only had the opportunity to use it with my own logs, so its only been tested with a warrior, monk and wizard. (although its made for melee, so it just totals damage for a wizard) Backstabs SHOULD get calculated, but like I said, I've not tested it with a rogue's log. It also won't handle evade well since you have to turn off auto attack to use it. I could code it to handle it better if I had rogue logs *hint hint*

I'm in school to be a network admin, not a coder, soooo don't expect it to be the greatest thing you've ever ran. Comments welcome though

Edit: Some people may need this file (http://home.earthlink.net/~torrid/COMDLG32.OCX)

[Tilea]

Actually Dharrk, you'd be surprised how lousy Ranger HP really are. Some of our casters fully buffed have as many hp as me. If I switch to resist gear they have MORE! Yes, more. Doesn't matter against melee type stuff because it's easy for Rangers to avoid agro but for AE's our low hp really suck. Mind you I don't have any +100hp etc stuff but the point is that casters still have as many hp as me! :rolleyes:

[Exxile]

Sorry Tor, I keep forgetting to turn my logs on =P.

Will fix that next raid!

[Drakky]

Well, some things I'd like to see in a parser...

Being able to see the percentage of how much the mob missed you (just so I can prove how gay ac is thx) - and being able to see the DPS of the mob attacking you.

[Elkay]

Unless there's a difference between the way Mob AC is calced and the way Player AC is calced - Then AC does make a difference...

How many of us attacking the AoW noticed significant lower damage being caused?

I sure did - and it was quite dramatic.

Now, if VI has decided there is no AC cap for Mobs, then that would make sence...otherwise something aint right

[Drakky]

Mobs are set to hit for a certain amount and they will do it. AC wont do shit for this.

Mobs like Lord Yelinak will hit for something like this; 600, 600, 400, 200, 150 ... something like, that is NOT your AC kicking in - they are set to hit for that.

As for misses - give me a fucking break, going from 1300 AC to 1500+ does jack shit. Sure maybe going from 1300 to 1500 AC the mob misses you 1% more. Big fucking deal.

I find it really funny people think AC is such god. Time to learn your game kiddo's, 95% of the stats in this game are capped.

I'll be going for max hp. I'll end up with 1700+ AC with max hp gear also, be my guest if you are going to go max AC and lose hundreds of hp.

If AC was as good as it looked, I would be throwing a big fit about monks. Thx leather classes with the same AC as me.

[Famor]

I haven't played for a few months, but just what I'm reading lately from the damage table changes, and 2h upgrades, shadow knights completely own PvP?

I must say they were before, but with these increases it looks like it favors monks and shadow knights the most..shadow knights seem far out ahead though.

[Dharrk]

the patch benfited both pallys and sks alot as well as monks too much =/ nerf pls monks

[Torrid]

Heh, well I am pretty damn sure paladins/sks do more than 85% my damage. I can't even taunt well with my 1h combo now unless I get lucky with procs

[Xalan]

Well sadly ive been going 2h lately even though i have SoD / Primal and about all other 1h from ntov save from vulak.
Anyways here is a typical fight alone and one grouped up with some friends in chardok.
The weapon is twisted steel bastard sword 53/45 which is comparable to the pally/sk piercer thats 53/46

This is Geonids with avatar procced w/ yeli guants and wonderous rapidity

Fight Session with Mob: a geonid
Start Line: 389 End Line: 494
Swings: 62 Highest Hit: 349
Melee Damage: 10061
Damage Recieved: 1028
Duration: 111 seconds
Damage Per Second: 90.640
"too far away" or "can't see" messages: 6
--------------------------
Fight Session with Mob: a geonid
Start Line: 507 End Line: 582
Swings: 54 Highest Hit: 548
Melee Damage: 9945
Damage Recieved: 327
Duration: 87 seconds
Damage Per Second: 114.310

I was grouping in Chardok for these numbers swapping in 2h primal for avatar proc with same haste
Total Elapsed Time: 11 minutes, 15 seconds
============================================
Fight Session with Mob: a Di`zok Legionnaire
Start Line: 293 End Line: 340
Swings: 22 Highest Hit: 507
Melee Damage: 4408
Damage Recieved: 344
Duration: 27 seconds
Damage Per Second: 163.259
--------------------------
Fight Session with Mob: a Chokidai Growler
Start Line: 41 End Line: 74
Swings: 18 Highest Hit: 327
Melee Damage: 3509
Duration: 23 seconds
Damage Per Second: 152.565
--------------------------
Fight Session with Mob: a Reanimated Partisan
Start Line: 3 End Line: 32
Swings: 17 Highest Hit: 326
Melee Damage: 3152
Damage Recieved: 111
Duration: 26 seconds
Damage Per Second: 121.231
--------------------------
Fight Session with Mob: a Chokidai Mangler
Start Line: 440 End Line: 456
Swings: 8 Highest Hit: 341
Melee Damage: 1108
Duration: 11 seconds
Damage Per Second: 100.727
"too far away" or "can't see" messages: 3
--------------------------
Fight Session with Mob: a Chokidai Fleshripper
Start Line: 155 End Line: 189
Swings: 19 Highest Hit: 323
Melee Damage: 3010
Damage Recieved: 269
Duration: 31 seconds
Damage Per Second: 97.097
--------------------------
Fight Session with Mob: Ancient Guardian
Start Line: 456 End Line: 617
Swings: 49 Highest Hit: 341
Melee Damage: 8315
Damage Recieved: 3582
Duration: 91 seconds
Damage Per Second: 91.374
"too far away" or "can't see" messages: 5

[Torrid]

Neat, people are actually using my program hehe.

Yeah, if I had a twisted steel bastard, I'd be using that all the time too. Drakky and I also came up with the same conclusion with vulak. My numbers show a deffinate trend, in that 2h performs better in comparission to dual wield at higher haste levels, but 1h tends to do better at lower levels. But with a twisted steel or vulak axe, 2h might be better at any. Also, mobs with lower ac tend to favor 2h. I owned Dozekar with 2h from the front, nearing my wizard's bane damage.

The sad part is, 2h also taunts fairly well now too. I've had a paladin with their epic taunt a ntov drake off me while wielding SoD/Primal. Sure that doesn't happen often, but it never happened before the patch.

[Eomer]

neat?

[Dharrk]

i dl'd the prog but it says i need a MSVBVM60.dll file to run it

[waright]

Fight Session with Mob: an enthralled ulthork
Start Line: 5870 End Line: 6087
Swings: 89 Highest Hit: 163
Melee Damage: 5672
Damage Recieved: 68
Duration: 106 seconds
Damage Per Second: 53.509
--------------------------
Fight Session with Mob: a servant manatee
Start Line: 2321 End Line: 2588
Swings: 94 Highest Hit: 168
Melee Damage: 5836
Non-Melee Damage: 20
Damage Recieved: 431
Duration: 115 seconds
Damage Per Second: 50.748
--------------------------
Fight Session with Mob: a servant sea elephant
Start Line: 6954 End Line: 7129
Swings: 70 Highest Hit: 169
Melee Damage: 4120
Damage Recieved: 337
Duration: 87 seconds
Damage Per Second: 47.356
--------------------------
Fight Session with Mob: an enthralled molkor
Start Line: 4701 End Line: 4941
Swings: 68 Highest Hit: 158
Melee Damage: 4417
Damage Recieved: 179
Duration: 97 seconds
Damage Per Second: 45.536
"too far away" or "can't see" messages: 10
--------------------------
Fight Session with Mob: an enthralled ulthork
Start Line: 6729 End Line: 6932
Swings: 65 Highest Hit: 171
Melee Damage: 3857
Damage Recieved: 164
Duration: 85 seconds
Damage Per Second: 45.376
"too far away" or "can't see" messages: 4
--------------------------
Fight Session with Mob: a servant walrus
Start Line: 3538 End Line: 3697
Swings: 41 Highest Hit: 171
Melee Damage: 2758
Damage Recieved: 910
Duration: 62 seconds
Damage Per Second: 44.484
--------------------------

not to bad, about 50% of a fighter I think had PBoT and SSS, could have had better weopons out, but hard to put away the Epic... real nice program torrid.... wish verent would let me put the epic in my amo slot-)

waright

[Bram]

Hello Torrid,

Question about the software. Any chance that it will break out DS and nuke damage as well? Ranger friend of mine would really like to be able to parse everything he does (melee, bow, dd, and DS on himself).

Bram

[Torrid]

It already does Bram. It can distinguish from damage shield non-melee, and DD/bow non-melee. DDs are factored in the DPS. Damagae shields are not, but you can see how much your damage shield does for the entire log.

I havn't tested it with bows yet. It won't generate a session for archery either. You can work around that by cutting an archery log and viewing the overall stats though.

[Bram]

Thanks Torrid,

Where can I download this program?

[Iskandar]

Interesting logs.

Torrid, I didn't see any mention of whether Avatar was always up or not. Avatar fades fairly quickly, and I've found Avatar procs more frequently with a 2h weapon versus a 1h weapon in the same amount of time. With your Primal Warsword in your offhand, you're going to be procing Avatar even less while in dual wield mode. If you were procing Avatar in 2h mode much earlier than in 1h mode, that could skew the DPS significantly, of course.

Apologies if you've already addressed this.

[Torrid]

Avatar was almost always up. If it wasn't, then Aura of Battle was (+10 atk). Yeah I agree with you, 2h primal procs more. I really don't think avatar being down is very signifficant. If its down, it won't be for long. Also, thats one reason why for a fair comparisson, you need multiple sessions for each weapon combo, which I provided :P

Bram: the link is on the first page of this thread

[Eomer]

Avatar is pretty significant for damage I think. Kreugen was doing some tests, and I think he found a 30% damage increase w/vulak axe (wtf is the name again?). He said something about how avatar doesnt help 1h nearly as much, I can't really remember the specifics. I will look for the link and post it.

[Eomer]

http://foh.noows.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3874

That's the thread, and the dmg increase from avatar is pretty significant. Not sure if he had a shammy there casting it on him or what tho.

[Torrid]

Heh, no shit its significant. Read the next sentence: "If its down, it won't be for long." When its down for a fraction of a fight, its insignifficant. Add to that the fact I was otherwise fully buffed and reach over 1250 atk w/o avatar.

[Eomer]

I missed the "being down" in your sentence :)

[Iskandar]

A couple other observations -

I know very little of the Halls of Testing, seeing as how I've never actually killed anything there. Do you have any logs from named mobs who are 5-15 levels higher than the normal mobs you're fighting here? I saw one proper name but I can't recognize the mob's name as being "named" like Gozzrem, Telkorenar, Dozekar, etc.

Also, you're not fighting the same mobs in each set of logs, which obviously could skew the results one way or another.

I'm not getting on your case here; it's just that I'm a little skeptical when the parsed logs have a few holes in 'em.

Interesting read, though, for sure.

[Torrid]

The named drakes in halls of testing are all level 60.

[Dinthar]

thanks torrid, was looking for a way to compare DPS on my 1hs and 2h weapons. Nice parser.

[Lronius de la Mancha]

omg rofl. I just though of something.

So I take it the orc pawns who wield 2h swords now are even more fierce to the newbies than they were before. Hahahahahahahahaahaha. That makes me wanna log in and farm a bunch of fs/rusty 2h weapons and give them to every orc pawn i see :D

[Rezz]

Hah, I'd have to agree, 2h is now overpowered when compared with the best 1h combos. Just adding the damage bonus would have evened the bar imo, making the vulak axe 51/42... was silly. (I think it's palladius' axe of slaughter.. shindar has one if I remember correctly~) Primal weapons went from awesome dam/delay ratio to obscene. Making them 38/40 would have been fine (takes advantage of the bonus for having 40 delay and all that) but 45/44 = overpowered when you add in the proc. While I dig that I can't hit for lower than 42 with my epic now, Looking at the stats on the 2h weapons that were upgraded... I think verant made a mistake ^_^ Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they should nerf 2h damage or something now, I just think they should have thought a little more before making almost every 2h epic or higher level weapon beyond uber compared with 1handers of the same quality.

And the damage bonus only effects characters level 51 and higher =/

[Tilea]

/rude 2h upgrade

[Dharrk]

factor in skill cap for sks 225 cap for 2hs and 230 cap for offense
warriors 250 cap 250 cap
now when you put a paladius's axe of slaughter on...if you are an SK, there is 0 dmg bonus, thats right 0. When a warrior weilds it its like 26 or something.

i think esp. since warriors have triple attack that with this comparision can still do more dmg than a hybrid.

My opinion on 1hers is they need a dmg bonus like 2hers to sort of even out the dmg between 1h and 2h by class.

[Dharrk]

still getting missing .dll file =\ need help want to use program

[Torrid]

This is a big reason why visual basic sucks. It needs a .dll file with all its functions to run. Either your windows version is old Dharrk, or Microsoft was too stupid to include it in the install of the OS.

I would suggest you look for it on microsoft.com, or ask someone to send it to you in IRC or somthing

[Rika]

....