Wondering

[Thanapur]

if I was the only person booted from the private forums or if this was a mass blacklisting?

[Maegwin]

if I was the only person booted from the private forums or if this was a mass blacklisting?
No private forums for you, come back ONE YEAR!

j/k Thana...I know I'd never kick such a cute druid out of my grove =\

[Sleepie]

<3 Thana

[Andaas]

I removed people who have sold/given their characters out of guild to be more consistant (ie, some people who sold have lost access, others had not), now, most/all that sold out of guild have lost access.

[Thanapur]

I removed people who have sold/given their characters out of guild to be more consistant (ie, some people who sold have lost access, others had not), now, most/all that sold out of guild have lost access.

Is that some form of punishment or reprimand? And how is that consistent with your approach of considering the person beyond the pixels?

[nwinn]

blame nallick :|

[Andaas]

Up until this past weekend, many people who have gotten real-life financial gain from the raiding activities of this guild were treated the same as those who simply retired. What that ends up creating in the end is the feeling that when you retire, it is completely acceptable to sell your character for financial gain to everyone in this guild who helped you equip your character.

Many people in this guild would never sell their characters, as you even said in your post announcing that you were up for sale, that it came as quite a surprise to you, but you still did it.

I do have compassion for those who have had to sell their characters to survive - and I support those decisions, I would never expect someone to risk their ability to pay their bills over a stupid computer game account. I also respect people who have had to sell their accounts to break the addiction from the game. However, in both respects, it still isn't acceptable behaviour to the guild in general.

Selling your character now has the same price for everyone.

[Nallick]

blame nallick :|

WTF! I had nothing to do with it. Even though I agree with Andaas 100%.

[Thanapur]

Up until this past weekend, many people who have gotten real-life financial gain from the raiding activities of this guild were treated the same as those who simply retired. What that ends up creating in the end is the feeling that when you retire, it is completely acceptable to sell your character for financial gain to everyone in this guild who helped you equip your character.

Many people in this guild would never sell their characters, as you even said in your post announcing that you were up for sale, that it came as quite a surprise to you, but you still did it.

I do have compassion for those who have had to sell their characters to survive - and I support those decisions, I would never expect someone to risk their ability to pay their bills over a stupid computer game account. I also respect people who have had to sell their accounts to break the addiction from the game. However, in both respects, it still isn't acceptable behaviour to the guild in general.

Selling your character now has the same price for everyone.

Everyone in this guild is involved in a symbiotic relationship. There's no way in hell I'd have gotten to do what I did without everyone else, and, likewise, they wouldn't have gotten there without me (Not me specifically, mind you. I'm not an egomaniac). The point is, like it or not, we need eachother.

Did you purchase Everquest and all expansions for me? Did you pay my monthly fees for three years? No, I didn't think so. After I have made my contributions and reaped my rewards, what I chose to do with the fruits of my labor is my business. We all know this game isn't going to last forever and punishing someone for finally finding happiness outside this game is deplorable.

If you want to excommunicate me from the community of this guild, then that's your prerogative. You still make the rules (I think). But please note, no characters were harmed when Thanapur left this game. And you better believe there were a dozen druids lined up to take her place.

[Thanapur]

blame nallick :|

Nallick as in the pendejo that whined about the cops being 'rude' to him when he fell asleep at the wheel and wrecked his car? That jerk put innocent people in danger.
He's lucky. I'd have plucked his eyes out so he'd never be able to drive again.



Oooooo you are right, Nallick.....hate IS fun!

[Andaas]

Nor did anyone purchase EverQuest for me, or 7 expansion (6 expansions on a 2nd account). Nor the web space I pay for out of my own pocket, nor the forum software that I pay for, or the domain registration, etc.

[Nallick]

Nallick as in the pendejo that whined about the cops being 'rude' to him when he fell asleep at the wheel and wrecked his car? That jerk put innocent people in danger.
He's lucky. I'd have plucked his eyes out so he'd never be able to drive again.



Oooooo you are right, Nallick.....hate IS fun!

Not quite sure what I ever did to you but you sure have always been a total bitch to me. Glad you are gone. Fuck off.

[nwinn]

WTF! I had nothing to do with it. Even though I agree with Andaas 100%.
You're a good scape-dwarf! :D

[Drakky]

Up until this past weekend, many people who have gotten real-life financial gain from the raiding activities of this guild were treated the same as those who simply retired. What that ends up creating in the end is the feeling that when you retire, it is completely acceptable to sell your character for financial gain to everyone in this guild who helped you equip your character.

Many people in this guild would never sell their characters, as you even said in your post announcing that you were up for sale, that it came as quite a surprise to you, but you still did it.

I do have compassion for those who have had to sell their characters to survive - and I support those decisions, I would never expect someone to risk their ability to pay their bills over a stupid computer game account. I also respect people who have had to sell their accounts to break the addiction from the game. However, in both respects, it still isn't acceptable behaviour to the guild in general.

Selling your character now has the same price for everyone.


I love your logic Andaas, it's such complete utter bullshit.

I was in Hoss, and I helped create Hoss to what it was today. The amount of time I put into that guild is probably to this day more than 98% of the people in Hoss. And I'm confident to this day, I believe I had a strong impact on getting Hoss to where it is even at today.

Everything that I ever received from "Hoss" I worked my ass off for. It's not yours, it is not the guilds. It was worked for and mine, and no ones to say what I do with it because I earned it. You did not lend me the items, they were given to me for the work I've done.

And who is to say YOU have the right to remove my access to the private boards? It's not like I go posting my opinions in the private board all the time, as I don't play anymore I will not butt into the guilds business. But I played a big role in this guild, and see NO reason why my access should be removed.

I invested a great amount of time into the guild. I helped get it at where it is today. It was time for me to move on. Everything I had I worked for, AND MORE. I could have let my character rot, but chose not to. I sold it instead, woop de fucking do.

I look forward to a real explanation here. Because your reasonings for removing my access is utter bullshit. It's not like I used this guild in any shape or form.

[Argonah]

You're no more entitled to post to these forums than we are to tell you you can't ebay.

You can ebay.
Andy can remove your access.

Shit happens.

[Drakky]

You're no more entitled to post to these forums than we are to tell you you can't ebay.

You can ebay.
Andy can remove your access.

Shit happens.

Make some sense soon, twirp.

Andy can do whatever he wants. I also can come murder you, does that make it right? Nope.

[Andaas]

The real issue comes down to this Drakky, should I revoke the access of someone who ebayed and did not contribute as much to the guild, and not revoke the access of someone who ebayed and contributed a great deal more during their time?

I have asked the active membership for their opinion on this topic today, as this thread has generated some discussion on it. Though I think that maybe a veteran's forum may be something we can all settle on as a place where everyone can get together.

The fact is, our private EverQuest discussion forums are intended primarily for discussing current issues relating to EverQuest.

The act of removing access this weekend is more of an attempt to discourage people from selling their characters, because it has become increasingly common over the past few months.

You are 100% right in that, nobody has any right to say what you can or cannot do with your account. You paid for it, you earned the gear on it - it is yours to do with as you please - however, that does not mean that the action of selling your character is going to make the people who have played this game by your side for months or years very happy. In fact, it sometimes leads to people feeling that they have been used.

So, this was my answer to the recent rash of people selling their characters. I stand by this decision, and will hold to this unless the current members of the guild feel differently.

[Argonah]

Make some sense soon, twirp.

Andy can do whatever he wants. I also can come murder you, does that make it right? Nope.


What I wrote makes perfect sense, maybe you should read it again.
Twirp? Is this 6th grade?

Your analogy is extremely flawed, but I'm sure you knew that already.
Comparing an act of violence thats against the law to your access being removed from these forums is quite moronic.

Let me rephrase what I posted before in a way more understandable.

It's your perogative to ebay.
It's Andys perogative to remove ebayers access.
You argue that it's not right to have your access removed.
We argue that it's not right to ebay.
All or none of the above may be true, but since we don't have control over you ebaying, and you don't have control over keeping access or not, it makes it a bit of a moot point, doesn't it?

[Vinilaa]

Can we not have this flame-fest drama again? Or shall we all prepare to have at each other till we get bored or it's dinner time or whatever... :rolleyes:

[Zarxen]

Yeah, lets not make this thread ugly now

UGLAH!http://www.antville.org/img/hurrlipurr/brazil.jpg

[Drakky]

The real issue comes down to this Drakky, should I revoke the access of someone who ebayed and did not contribute as much to the guild, and not revoke the access of someone who ebayed and contributed a great deal more during their time?

I have asked the active membership for their opinion on this topic today, as this thread has generated some discussion on it. Though I think that maybe a veteran's forum may be something we can all settle on as a place where everyone can get together.

The fact is, our private EverQuest discussion forums are intended primarily for discussing current issues relating to EverQuest.

The act of removing access this weekend is more of an attempt to discourage people from selling their characters, because it has become increasingly common over the past few months.

You are 100% right in that, nobody has any right to say what you can or cannot do with your account. You paid for it, you earned the gear on it - it is yours to do with as you please - however, that does not mean that the action of selling your character is going to make the people who have played this game by your side for months or years very happy. In fact, it sometimes leads to people feeling that they have been used.

So, this was my answer to the recent rash of people selling their characters. I stand by this decision, and will hold to this unless the current members of the guild feel differently.

You are looking at this very one sided. Yes people help you get your items, BUT you also help OTHERS get their items too. How can someone feel used when you also helped them get their items???

Whatever, I just think it's pathetic you take away someones access after like 4 years. I didn't do jack shit wrong. If you want to punish the people for now on that ebay, that's your choice. If I remember correctly you didn't care that oldschool people kept access to the boards, because you still considered many friends. Now if they were butting into the guilds business I'd understand you taking away their access. Other than that... I don't see any reason why.

But it's your choice... I don't hang around much anymore anyways... I just find it sad to take away my access after so long and so much investment into the guild. I won't be visiting anymore since I'm not "welcome".

[Drakky]

What I wrote makes perfect sense, maybe you should read it again.
Twirp? Is this 6th grade?

Your analogy is extremely flawed, but I'm sure you knew that already.
Comparing an act of violence thats against the law to your access being removed from these forums is quite moronic.

Let me rephrase what I posted before in a way more understandable.

It's your perogative to ebay.
It's Andys perogative to remove ebayers access.
You argue that it's not right to have your access removed.
We argue that it's not right to ebay.
All or none of the above may be true, but since we don't have control over you ebaying, and you don't have control over keeping access or not, it makes it a bit of a moot point, doesn't it?

Yeah, ok. I don't even know you. I don't think you were even around to see how much time I invested into Hoss. I really don't give a shit about your view on it seeing as how you weren't even around to see why I'm arguing this.

I don't think you should have any say on this at all, seeing as how you weren't around when I was. You may have say on it from this-point-on. But I see no reason why your opinion should hold any weight what-so-ever in my case.

[Argonah]

Because I'm an active member of this guild who hasn't ebayed his account.

Edited to add:

And my contribution to this guild isn't something I'm interested in comparing with yours. It's simply not relevant.
I'm posting on this subject because I agree wholeheartedly with the policy being enforced that if you ebay, you don't get to hang around and be "part of the family" anymore.
My opinion over things past and present is just as valid as anyone elses, especially since it's about a subject in the here and now. I haven't and won't comment on something that happened 4 years ago.

[Thanapur]

The act of removing access this weekend is more of an attempt to discourage people from selling their characters, because it has become increasingly common over the past few months.

EQ is ending. Countless new games like CoH, WoW, Vanguard, even EQ2 are going to see to that. You think you are going to discourage people from doing whatever they feel is right for them as it ends? I imagine you could kidnap an "ebayer's" cat, skin it, and hang it from a tree and that STILL wouldn't discourage people from selling their account if they so chose when they are ready.



You are 100% right in that, nobody has any right to say what you can or cannot do with your account. You paid for it, you earned the gear on it - it is yours to do with as you please - however, that does not mean that the action of selling your character is going to make the people who have played this game by your side for months or years very happy. In fact, it sometimes leads to people feeling that they have been used.

So instead, when we no longer log in for 5-6 hours a night and do the same shit over and over again, we are cast out? We are no longer able to wish people a good time on their vacations or laugh at Peotr's posts? Really... who's using whom here?

[Rayena]

I won't be visiting anymore since I'm not "welcome".

It's been made clear that General Access = access to everyone playing and NOT playing the game.

Private = to those currently guilded with Hoss and are playing everquest.
From what has been explained to me and my understanding is...

Selling your toon no matter what the situation is, means you do not have a right in the private section. why? Definition of "private" stated above.



Anyways...what can you do in private that you can't do in general?






Is that some form of punishment or reprimand? And how is that consistent with your approach of considering the person beyond the pixels?

IN-Game - the toon matters as much as the person behind it.

And by the way..that approach isn't and hasn't been about the person behind the toon, since if it was, I would have been allowed to rejoin with my ranger.


You could just do what you do best, try and cyber your way back in ;)

[Drakky]

Because I'm an active member of this guild who hasn't ebayed his account.

Edited to add:

And my contribution to this guild isn't something I'm interested in comparing with yours. It's simply not relevant.
I'm posting on this subject because I agree wholeheartedly with the policy being enforced that if you ebay, you don't get to hang around and be "part of the family" anymore.
My opinion over things past and present is just as valid as anyone elses, especially since it's about a subject in the here and now. I haven't and won't comment on something that happened 4 years ago.

HAHAHA...

Good, live up to what you said then. Butt out of my business, because I've had access for years and everyone at the current time did not care that I had access, infact I'm sure many were happy I still kept in contact.

I'll say this. You have the right to enforce whatever is going on in the guild today. But don't try to give me your opinion on this matter when I've had access for years and I don't know anyone that actually didn't like me having access.

New members join the guild and all of a sudden have the right in saying I shouldn't have access anymore, years later!? Give me a break! You weren't even around when I ebayed, everyone that was around didn't mind me having access. Here you join the guild, years later and you think that I shouldn't be able to have access!? HA...

[Argonah]

Yup, that about sums it up.

[Drakky]

It's been made clear that General Access = access to everyone playing and NOT playing the game.

Private = to those currently guilded with Hoss and are playing everquest.
From what has been explained to me and my understanding is...

Selling your toon no matter what the situation is, means you do not have a right in the private section. why? Definition of "private" stated above.



Anyways...what can you do in private that you can't do in general?






IN-Game - the toon matters as much as the person behind it.

And by the way..that approach isn't and hasn't been about the person behind the toon, since if it was, I would have been allowed to rejoin with my ranger.


You could just do what you do best, try and cyber your way back in ;)


I don't even know you either. You don't know what was said in the past.

IT WAS MADE CLEAR IN THE PAST, THAT MEMBERS WOULD KEEP THEIR ACCESS TO THE PRIVATE BOARDS. THE TOPIC WAS BROUGHT UP IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY AND NO ONE CARED.

Shows how much you know.

[Rayena]

I don't even know you either. You don't know what was said in the past.

IT WAS MADE CLEAR IN THE PAST, THAT MEMBERS WOULD KEEP THEIR ACCESS TO THE PRIVATE BOARDS. THE TOPIC WAS BROUGHT UP IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY AND NO ONE CARED.

Shows how much you know.

Notice the bold that I highlighted? members. the moment you ebayed, you weren't a MEMBER anymore.

And Guess what? Someone did care and changed the rules. Cry some more.


So I guess, shows how much you know..

[Drakky]

Yup, that about sums it up.

Oh? Why should you have any say in this matter? I don't give a rats ass if you're an active member now, you weren't then. And it was discussed then that access and it wouldn't be removed. Here you join the guild and you say remove it? Ha... you got to be kidding me.

If this is how all the Hoss members are now, it's turned into a pathetic guild. Someone like you would have never gotten into the guild as long as I was around.

[Drakky]

Notice the bold that I highlighted? members. the moment you ebayed, you weren't a MEMBER anymore.

And Guess what? Someone did care and changed the rules. Cry some more.


So I guess, shows how much you know..

You're digging yourself a grave here sport. Let's see if I can sink this into your skull...

It was brought up before if we should let members keep access to the private boards. And NO ONE CARED. ALL of a sudden new people join the guild and they think they can take away access from people they don't even know??

Like Andaas said, he removed access from people that have Ebayed just to discourage it in the future, what the fuck does that have to do with the past!?!?

[Rayena]

Are you trying to be this stupid or what?



Like Andaas said, he removed access from people that have Ebayed just to discourage it in the future


He got tired of it and CHANGED the rules for EVERYONE! FROM NOW ON....You did or thinking about it = BYE BYE Private forum ACCESS

what is so hard to understand?



if you need a minute for it to compute, please take it..

[Drakky]

Old members know this is extremely disrespectful I'm sure. And I don't even know whos around anymore, but anyone old-school I'm sure isn't happy with removing someones access like mine.

I won't be hanging around anymore.

To this day I still talk to many old-school people from Hoss. Infact today I talked to one that's laughing at this matter, because it's so pathetic. You won't see me wearing this Hoss tag in any other game I ever play again, due to it being over-ran by idiots and a disrespectful leader when I played one of the major roles in the guild for YEARS.

[Argonah]

Oh? Why should you have any say in this matter? I don't give a rats ass if you're an active member now, you weren't then. And it was discussed then that access and it wouldn't be removed. Here you join the guild and you say remove it? Ha... you got to be kidding me.

If this is how all the Hoss members are now, it's turned into a pathetic guild. Someone like you would have never gotten into the guild as long as I was around.

I have a say in the matter because I'm a member of Hoss.
Btw, you seem to be under the impression that simply because I agree that ebayers shouldn't have access, that it was my idea. That wasn't the case, and I don't think (I'm not sure, honestly) that this issue was brought up by one of the "new" members you so despise. I'm not sure how or why this issue came to light, but I do like the policy and I do stand behind Andy 100%.

I only wish all Hoss members were like me.
Completely opposed to ebaying, maintaining near to 100% attendance since the day they joined, playing their class to the best of their ability... It'd be a dream come true! =P

[Andriana Duskrose]

ALL of a sudden new people join the guild and they think they can take away access from people they don't even know??

Andaas is new people? He's the one who made the initial decision, and quite frankly it's his sandbox to make the rules in, or change them as he sees fit.

Personally, I *support* him in his decision, and in him being able to choose how he wishes to run his message board.

As well, I personally don't care if the eBayers have access to the private forums or not.

You can always show him up though, and make a new eBayed ex-Hoss message board, and deny access to the private section from all active non-eBayed current Hoss people.

[Vinilaa]

It was brought up before if we should let members keep access to the private boards. And NO ONE CARED. ALL of a sudden new people join the guild and they think they can take away access from people they don't even know??


Drakky, in the past members discussed and voted on lots of things that have no relevance now. The fact is Hoss is about the current active membership. It's got nothing to do with those of us who're no longer active. Maybe it sucks but that's how it is. Our past votes have nothing to do with what they decide now or tomorrow or the day after. The current membership has decided to remove private access to those who've eBayed or given their accounts to people outside of the guild. That is their perogative, whether those of us who are no longer active like it or not. It has nothing to do with fairness or senority or whatever... it's simply their guild now. They get to make the rules.

Let's not have a flame fest over it.

[Argonah]

Calling Andy disrespectful is outright insanity...
He's probably the nicest guy I've ever met in EQ.

[Rayena]

Calling Andy disrespectful is outright insanity...
He's probably the nicest guy I've ever met in EQ.


Couldn't agree more.

[Vidmer]

I have to say im quite happy Ebayers have had their access removed. I had been under the impression that was the way we were doing things. After reading this thread I must say I am really glad some people no longer have access.


To this day I still talk to many old-school people from Hoss. Infact today I talked to one that's laughing at this matter, because it's so pathetic. You won't see me wearing this Hoss tag in any other game I ever play again, due to it being over-ran by idiots and a disrespectful leader when I played one of the major roles in the guild for YEARS.

Exploiting mobs, getting us guild warnings and forming cliques certainly were major roles, but not productive ones! You were a better warrior then you were a guildmate.

If you want to play the HOSS newb card I will be more then happy to talk of the uber pre-Drakky days. HOSS was the best guild around before and after your day, I wouldn't want you to strain yourself patting your back.

[Lonskils]

Haha

[Nallick]

lmao

[Sleepie]

rofl Vidle...Im laughing my ass off :D

[Drakky]

I have to say im quite happy Ebayers have had their access removed. I had been under the impression that was the way we were doing things. After reading this thread I must say I am really glad some people no longer have access.

Exploiting mobs, getting us guild warnings and forming cliques certainly were major roles, but not productive ones! You were a better warrior then you were a guildmate.

If you want to play the HOSS newb card I will be more then happy to talk of the uber pre-Drakky days. HOSS was the best guild around before and after your day, I wouldn't want you to strain yourself patting your back.

Cliques... haha. Those are what you call friends buddy, they like to hang out and do stuff together. Cliques.... hahaha.... I still talk to my whole "clique"

Exploited Yelinak. Woopy, best thing I've ever done in EverQuest. I loved it. Don't be jealous you didn't think of it first. Along with Sachiiel, Famor, Orrlaar, Felh, and Shindar. Don't you hate us all? Awwww... if it was so horrible why didn't we all get booted?

Nice try, Hoss was nothing on Druzzil Ro until a bunch of Seekers joined. Hoss was going no where. They didn't even want to kill Trakanon, so if you're talking about on another server I don't care. Hoss was not uber on Druzzil Ro until after Andaas and I joined.

[Drakky]

rofl Vidle...Im laughing my ass off :D

Oh you're in Hoss too now...

I'll let Shindar know!

[Drakky]

Andaas is new people? He's the one who made the initial decision, and quite frankly it's his sandbox to make the rules in, or change them as he sees fit.

Personally, I *support* him in his decision, and in him being able to choose how he wishes to run his message board.

As well, I personally don't care if the eBayers have access to the private forums or not.

You can always show him up though, and make a new eBayed ex-Hoss message board, and deny access to the private section from all active non-eBayed current Hoss people.


OBVIOUSLY I DIDN'T MEAN ANDAAS... I bet you Andaas is only doing it because the guild wants to do it, DUH.

Andaas has never had a problem with me having access from what I know, in fact I've talked to him a few times in IM's even. I don't think he *personally* ives a shit.

[Talas]

I fear for the drama gnome. :(

[Dharrk]

The only problem I have with it, is people post things about their life, funny links, computer information, info about new video games, things that have NOTHING to do with EVERQUEST AND HOSS in relation. It is just that some Hoss and ex-Hoss members prefer to post in private forums with that information. Yet they do not get reprimanded for posting that there, even though it has nothing to do with the current state of Hoss as a guild in Everquest, nothing to do with today's raid.

People are mad, and are going to be mad, because they were told they would have access to these forums even after they sold. All of a sudden a year after you were promised you'd still have access it disappears, expect people to get mad. You have a right to disagree, but you have to let some people vent.

Some of you people dont even know why some people sold their accounts. What if you couldn't quit the game, and it was ruining your life? If you cancelled your account, you'd just resubscribe. Delete your character, petition for it back. Give it away to a friend (which I tried to do, all said no), you'd eventually ask for it back. If you sold, not to use Hoss, I was on nearly everyday for 2 years in Hoss, but so you wouldnt be able to play again, is it such a crime? To some of you, yes. Fixing your life, and not playing a video game is such a crime. It should piss some people off when people talk about things they know nothing about.

If anyone feels used by what I did, I have this to say. Either you weren't in the guild when I quit (which means you never helped me and I never helped you), you shouldn't feel used, nothing I did reflected you at all, except maybe helping to pave the way for Hoss to the point where you joined. If you were in the guild, know that I rarely did quests (I think 1, and I did it with my friends). But I helped a shitload of people and their twinks for quests, keys, flags, etc. when they weren't able to do it by themselves, with nothing wanted in return. I also supplied many people who came back from retirement with gear, with nothing in return, I didn't even ask for it back when they were done. I was there to help and have fun, not use you. Get a grip and get some perspective.

You are counterproductive on most attempts at arguing with the people who feel robbed. It just shows how stubborn some of you are. Do you feel intimidated by me? Do I bother you? I sure hope not, and if I do, you have other problems than me having private access.

I just have to say that a retired Hoss / ebayed Hoss forum, would be stupid, unless people were told to post all non-present day-eq related things in that forum. I just don't see that happening. It'd also be more productive to reprimand people who post non-related stuff in the private forums, as in my computer doesnt work and other things. I'm not making demands, its just a suggestion.

If I bought back my account, would I have access? Would it make a difference? Would anything be changed, except me wasting money? I really don't think so. This argument is somewhat relevant, too, as there have been multiple people who have been Hoss, sold their accounts, and bought them back and rejoined Hoss, and have gone inactive again, and still have access.

Reply how you wish, its just my opinion, but take cheap shots on me, when I'm not doing such to you, and your opinion means nothing.


Finally, with this happening, I don't feel welcome anymore.

[Sleepie]

Oh you're in Hoss too now...

I'll let Shindar know!

LOL he's known for a while actually but feel free to say hi to Matt :)

[Kattoo Tacit]

The decision was in the best interest of Hoss as an active EverQuest guild. It discourages ebaying by delivering a drawback and will over time prove to strengthen the guild. Those who have ebayed do not have to deal with how the guild is doing or about the problems faced today. I preferr logic and fairness to prejudice and favoritism. Even more then that, I preferr the preservation and continued supreamacy of Hoss over catering to those who are gone.

[lyubm]

i find it humorous how argonah instanly clicks with drakky

[Rayena]

If I bought back my account, would I have access? Would it make a difference? Would anything be changed, except me wasting money?

I can see your point. However I was told that my only way back into Hoss was by re-obtaining my toon and that there would have been no issue, retagging and board access. However that isn't/wasn't an option.

It wouldn't be wasting money if you re-purchased your investment and wanted to get back into things.

(If anyone re-purchased, I am sure a stink would arise somewhere about retagging. Politics are everywhere.)



This argument is somewhat relevant, too, as there have been multiple people who have been Hoss, sold their accounts, and bought them back and rejoined Hoss, and have gone inactive again, and still have access.

My understanding after explained to me is this; if you do not currently own the toon then you lose the access and can not rejoin Hoss with any other toon period.

If you curently own your toon then being inactive is irrelevant to the current topic and you would still have access.


Someone that knows the rules correct me if I am wrong..

[Dharrk]

The decision was in the best interest of Hoss as an active EverQuest guild. It discourages ebaying by delivering a drawback and will over time prove to strengthen the guild. Those who have ebayed do not have to deal with how the guild is doing or about the problems faced today. I preferr logic and fairness to prejudice and favoritism. Even more then that, I preferr the preservation and continued supreamacy of Hoss over catering to those who are gone.

All some of us are saying is that these drawbacks did not exist when our decisions were made.

Reminds me of whatever the thing is called where "you can't be convicted of a crime if when you commited the crime it wasn't against the law." Issue a "from now on" law, its just as effective. As it applys to everyone currently playing. Those before this new law weren't informed, the ones who do it now are. Its not playing favorites, its playing fair.

All I am doing is offering my plea. I am not "dissing" anyone or making demands.

I'm sure all of you current players would be upset, if you had to quit, and Andaas had personally told you that you would be able to keep access, and then he takes it away. I have no beef with Andaas, I just have a beef with what has happened, and logically so.

I am not involved in current Hoss issues, nor am I asking to be. I told you why I wanted access.

I just hope you guys tell the next person who decides to retire that "they are always Hoss, unless they sell their account." No one told me that, and I never thought it would be so.

And I am looking out for Hoss, I was suggesting that maybe non EQ related things be posted elsewhere than the private forum, it wouldn't distract anyone from the goal of Hoss succeeding in EQ.


If you expect any of us people who lost access not to be upset, that promises were broken that rules were newly made that including people that never knew those rules would be created, then you my friends, aren't even worth my time. Whether you have a case or not, you can empathize a bit.

[Daisiee]

This discussion is pointless. I can't believe how some of you are acting over a fucking video game.

[Widespreadd Panic]

dharrk you know your after all the leet secrets we talk about in there! :p :p

[Dharrk]

dharrk you know your after all the leet secrets we talk about in there! :p :p

Well, shit. There goes my argument. Last time I tell you a secret!!!


Anyways.

I still cry ex post facto.

Not to mention, if anyone wants to ebay, I doubt losing messageboard access will stop them. Messageboard access will never make or break a guild. You'd be crazy to think so. Nothing can stop it. Calm down.

Not to mention I still see people who sold their accounts show up with a red font. (aka Guild Member color)

Call that one fair?

[Seraphina]

Personally, arguing over something like a video game was always the funniest thing to me. I did it, even though I knew I shouldn't. However, banning ebayed members from the private forums is nothing really dramatic. The private forum doesn't exactly contain that many secrets. Plus, there's this general forum that could take a lot more use. Saying you wouldn't wear a Hoss guildtag in any other game is silly, what if all your good friends decided to? Just get over it, this game is in your past, no need to dreg up ill feelings toward former guildmates. Move on. We are, afterall, at the end of EQ's life for most, and with EQ2 and WoW in the future, we should perhaps look forward to meeting up again in these new worlds, while cherishing the memories we have from this one.

[Hailie]

If you quit, then ebayed.. why would you still want access to something you wanted to get away from anyways? (not including friends etc, but EQ itself) Nothing in the private forums concerns you or your opinions anymore. You stepped away from the game. I don't see why people are fussing about it.
Oh and for the people who needed the cash, yeah ok..still shouldn't be upset. Hoss doesn't concern you anymore.

[Andaas]

Not to mention I still see people who sold their accounts show up with a red font. (aka Guild Member color)

Call that one fair?

Please let me know who, I can fix that pretty easily.

I certainly can't remember or know of every person who quit and then sold their character months later. And also please try to remember, that people who sold or gave their characters to someone else in the guild are still granted access.

[Dharrk]

If you quit, then ebayed.. why would you still want access to something you wanted to get away from anyways?

Reading a board is a lot different from playing a game. I do it sparingly in free time and don't feel compelled to read. No addiction there.



Nothing in the private forums concerns you or your opinions anymore. You stepped away from the game.

Please start reading the posts, not assuming their content. I dont care about the game anymore.


I don't see why people are fussing about it.

Easy to not see what people are fussing about when you haven't been offended. I care about being told one thing and then another happening, you'd do the same if it happened to you. Look up ex post facto. I only wanted access to that forum for its NON EQ stuff. Funny eh, how the private forum has non-EQ related stuff on it.

Take any stance you want on it, its your opinion, but don't be so close minded, we already explained why we wanted access.

Plain and simple, some people are offended. What do you do when you get offended? Do you sit there and take it? I don't.

I want access back, but its what I want. I'm not going to ask for it. My opinion means nothing. I can accept that. But I won't stop defending the fact I think its wrong. Even if it solves nothing. Because I'm stubborn and I've been offended.


Please let me know who, I can fix that pretty easily.

I certainly can't remember or know of every person who quit and then sold their character months later. And also please try to remember, that people who sold or gave their characters to someone else in the guild are still granted access.

I really don't feel like naming names. Upon further thinking, I wouldn't want to mess up anyone elses access as I feel it was wrong for it to happen to myself. Spending any time helping a cause I'm against is counterproductive. Just letting Hoss know that their job isn't complete. But then again, "Hoss doesn't concern me anymore." So I'll just mind my own business.


To some of you:

It's funny how so many Hoss members get offended by jokes or stupid things, but when someone else gets offended they are like "omg why are you even bothering, you're opinion is so stupid." You ask for respect and then not give it back. I don't care if I sold my account that I put two years of Hoss into or not. You are no better than me.


I'd like one of you paladins to look into what we are saying, and serious about it. Not focus on you feel that people who quit will sway people into quitting. Ever think that a goodbye post does just as much as a goodbye + I'm selling post. Its the quitting part, not the ebaying part. That's an after thought. It'd be more effective just not allowing people to post goodbye posts. Delete them on site. Just let them appear MIA, would be more effective.

Not to mention EQ is winding to an end and WoW, CoH, etc. are getting people off EQ. Why don't you ban WoW or CoH posts in the private forums.

Anyone care to debate that point? Let's be friendly. I'm just trying to help, I'd love your inputs on my thoughts. If need be, AIM, PM, or ICQ me. Although, I'd prefer here.

*EDIT*

Also curious, what is the difference between deleting all your characters, cancelling your account to an unrecoverable point, and selling them? Both of them get rid of permanently (after a period of time) coming back to Hoss. The cases have the same result, but one sends you to hell? Doesn't make sense.

[BurnemWizfyre]

Personally, i dont give 2 shits either way. If any area from these boards i would care about one way or the other is the Recruiting where we talk about the new recruits and such, id prefer yall not have acess to that, as we seem to have problems with leaks with or with out you, it would only lessen w/out you so thats the only reason id be for that. All you bitching should at least remember me, and personally i dont care one way or the other about the whole ordeal.

[Dharrk]

Personally, i dont give 2 shits either way. If any area from these boards i would care about one way or the other is the Recruiting where we talk about the new recruits and such, id prefer yall not have acess to that, as we seem to have problems with leaks with or with out you, it would only lessen w/out you so thats the only reason id be for that. All you bitching should at least remember me, and personally i dont care one way or the other about the whole ordeal.

I'm fine with that completely, only want the regular private one. nothing else.

[Andaas]

And here we are back to the original issue as to why a single line was drawn about what situation would cause someone to lose access...

What should mark the point at which someone loses access for ebaying and does not?

Do you factor the amount of time they were guilded? The number of raids they attended? The amount of time the have been sold? How do you compare someone with only 1 year of active time, but nearly perfect attendance in that time vs. someone with 3 years of active time but they attended less raids than the 1 year player?

There are so many variables, it is not as simple as black and white. What I chose to do was create a basic factor to divide along.

Removing access from an ebayed person is not something new - we have done it, albeit inconsistently, since I have been hosting the forums. I consider many of the people I removed access from as people I like and do not want to lose contact with. I have also said that perhaps the addition of a veterans or retired lounge is probably a good idea and would possibly suit us here.

[Canare1]

... And also please try to remember, that people who sold or gave their characters to someone else in the guild are still granted access.

/boggle

What difference does this make? Either way, you still stopped playing and Hoss doesn't concern you because you are inactive from the guild.

[Thanapur]

/boggle

What difference does this make? Either way, you still stopped playing and Hoss doesn't concern you because you are inactive from the guild.

It makes a difference because people here are feeling rather territorial. Maybe like they've done us a favor by allowing us to join them and the work we put into making a lvl 65 character with a bajillion AA pales in comparison to the 16 pieces of loot we received.

I think they may also be jealous that we've managed to break the addiction and can enjoy the social aspect again instead of being constantly oppressed with the RAID RAID RAID mentality.

I really did enjoy my time with Hoss, and if any of you think I joined just to beef Thanapur up for market, you are seriously mistaken. Perhaps some people have come through your ranks with that intent, but with the EXTENDED trial period, if you can't identify them before guilding, you only have yourself to blame.

[Gheltire]

Honestly, I think you should read Burnem's post again, Thanapur. The thread internally has like a page and a half of posts, most by the same guys. There is probably some irrational territoriality in a few of those, and there is just as much, actually far more, territoriality out here in this thread. I can't speak for any PM's Andaas is getting, of course, but there is no public upswell of "all the new guys" (read: twirp) to give you grief for beating your addiction while we have not.

Andaas decided to draw a line for people who had left the guild via the PA/ebay route. Maybe by not currently playing, you guys aren't seeing how it has currently affected the guild mentality about it. A game is a game, if you're going to bail for financial or medical or whatever reasons, RL > EQ anyday of the week. But in the past month or so, high playtime, decked DECKED characters have been PA'd...some with notice of intent, and some with really blunt "goodbye and fuck you all" posts.

The game may be dying or dead for you, but there is still a guild operating for 70 or so of us poor guys who haven't beaten the addiction. The day to day operations were seriously impaired. Hell, they ARE seriously impaired. And as we watch wave after wave of guys who leave the game, and mill around for 2 hrs a night because some key classes who were very well geared are now no longer with us because they sold externally, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth for people that ebay and leave their friends in the lurch.

As far as I'm concerned, I've earned my gear. As did anyone who ebayed. Or anyone who retired. Or anyone who is down to maybe a day a week. However, for as much right as I have to Gheltire, I do still owe the opportunity I had for my gear to Hoss, L`Malla, and Seekers. If I were to sell tomorrow (yeah yeah I'm a ranger I know that's like a buck fifty and a ham sandwich) because I was "done", leave the guys in a lurch, make them recruit and backflag and gear - when they could be progressing, and then come back a few weeks later to say "hi, see you in WoW", I wouldn't expect the best of receptions, no matter how friendly I am with these members.

My take on "once Hoss always Hoss" applies to anyone who is/was or will be Hoss deserves my respect. Some people have profitted from that affiliation, some haven't (financially). Regardless of reason, others have dropped their tag and moved on. Now just from the response I have seen from two of the "moved on" guys, who paint all current members with a pretty angry brush, you are not following the "once Hoss always Hoss" tenet either, just as you accuse some here of failing to do.

So regardless of my feelings that it really doesn't matter a hill of beans, and that this is getting way overblown, I'll stick by the guild decision, and defend it. I know it doesn't apply to the after the fact enforcement on guys who I especially like to see around (hiya Dharkk), but that part of the process isn't up to me. The selling of characters externally from the top end guild on Dro has to be curtailed, and if this is an attempt to do so, I'm for it. /rewind doesn't apply to doing guild raids week after week to regear the same classes (not players) we get to do that manually:P

Anyways, while I think Nallick could use with a chill pill, I think the insulting responses haven't put the whole topic in much good light either.

[Nallick]

Show me where in this thread that I need a chill pill?!

Its actually funny that I saw Thanas post here and made a post in the private forums trying to get an answer to her question. I was surprised that she lost access. After I found out that Andaas decided to inforce the long time rule of banning ebayers I supported it.

Derasi First mentions me in this thread saying "blame nallick". I post WTF I had nothing to do with this but I support Andaas decision. Derasi post you were scape goat.

Thana proceeds to joke about an incident where I could have died and was probably the most tramatic thing that has ever happened to me.

I asked Thana why she is always a bitch to me and said fuck off.

I laugh at Vidmer's post. Thats it.

[Gheltire]

I know, but I needed a villain to make fun of for some levity:P

[Elidroth]

But it's your choice... I don't hang around much anymore anyways... I just find it sad to take away my access after so long and so much investment into the guild. I won't be visiting anymore since I'm not "welcome".

If you don't post here or have interest here, then why is it of such concern to you?

BTW.. your comparison to this and murder was even beyond your normal overreaction.

Nobody is devaluing your contributions to what Hoss is Drakky. You simply did something when you left EQ that the majority of the people in this guild do not approve of, in selling your character. Like it or not, you don't get to make the decisions based solely on your opinion, and Andaas has not done this based solely on his opinion. The general consensus of the guild, as a whole, is selling your account means you're no longer a part of the guild.

Get over it and move on. I thought you had done that already.

[Rhedd]

Wow so many points I could respond too... Really its all pointless, It's obvious to see what this Guild has become.

[Trazz]

D R A M A..... It's all good..

[Widespreadd Panic]

rhedd is alwasy a man of good words~ and well a tight ass too~

[Gemmi]

I agree with Andaas. There's a lot more here than just cut and dry you have Private access or you don't, but the bottom line really is he is saying he doesn't want or can't be judge and jury over every individual person who joined Hoss and then Ebayed. Don't blame him, blame the couple who used us to beef up and get a good price. But I dare anyone to try to be the one to sort out who is who.

It's not a matter of not being allowed into the board anyway. If/when I'm gone, I don't mind being able to /wave at friends in the general forum. I don't need the private forum to do that, and if I'm not playing, why would I need any more involvement in the guild aspect vs. the "friend" aspect of Hoss anyway? I doubt the only place you can find your friends is in the private Hoss forums.

[Hailie]

Dharrk you are really nice and stuff but I just think that people should respect what's happening. It might not be the best thing in the world and it might make you feel shitty, but we can't change it now. Coming here and being upset isn't going to change anything. You have already expressed how upset you are and I respect that. But you have to realize it was a choice that was made.

[Zarxen]

It's not a matter of not being allowed into the board anyway. If/when I'm gone, I don't mind being able to /wave at friends in the general forum. I don't need the private forum to do that, and if I'm not playing, why would I need any more involvement in the guild aspect vs. the "friend" aspect of Hoss anyway? I doubt the only place you can find your friends is in the private Hoss forums.

Over the years many old members have posted topics or chatted in the private forums. Most of them don't get involved in EQ related stuff. They just come to talk about various topics with old friends be it politics, movies art or life in general. Yes they could talk about those things in the general section and many of them do, having the luxury of privacy can be nice sometimes however as you know often there is subjects that don't need public viewing.

/Ponders if the other non-ebayed retired folks will be next?

[Rhedd]

[QUOTE
/Ponders if the other non-ebayed retired folks will be next?[/QUOTE]


Probably Zarxen! Aparently Hoss isn't about talking with old friends. Its about working thru broken content to get phat loots for a pixelated character so Sony President can buy that new corvette!

Unity? Friendship? You want that go join Flower Power!

[Widespreadd Panic]

yea zar they you arent evil! nallick has spoken!

[Widespreadd Panic]

and wow at some of the names that have been logging in to read the boards~

[Aradil]

Well, I was kinda bugged that I lost access to the private forums after a year of having access. I respect the decision of Andaas though. I liked being able to keep up with what was going on inside of Hoss and keeping up with personal lives of people in Hoss. I sold my account out of necessity and have regretted the days since then, but had to do what I had to. I guess something like this just makes people feel like the friends they had in Hoss weren't really friends who had to accept you even when you didn't agree with them, but were just using you as another body they needed to get what they needed. I was hoping that when WoW or another game that Hoss decided to join I would be a part of Hoss, but this seems to basically tell me I am not wanted in Hoss at all <shrug> sad, but I will live. Good luck to you all in Hoss.

Aradil

[Coral]

Wow so many points I could respond too... Really its all pointless, It's obvious to see what this Guild has become.

I'd like to thank everyone involved for 10 minutes of amusement.

[Nallick]

I'd like to thank everyone involved for 10 minutes of amusement.

Hi Coral!
Are you comin back? We need someone to point out when people fuck up!

[Elidroth]

Hi Coral!
Are you comin back? We need someone to point out when people fuck up!

And to inform us Fucknuggets that we have a mob to kill!

[Nallick]

And to inform us Fucknuggets that we have a mob to kill!

And to call out people when they don't assist!

[Talas]

I need a job in August, Coral! :p

[Zappo]

http://www.ryano.net/iraq/?1036634

[Trazz]

http://www.ryano.net/iraq/img/1/1037755.jpg

[Zobb]

ROFLMAO trazz! :p :D

[Zarxen]

Priceless :p

[Grevan]

I guess i still don't understand why this is such a big deal. Why do you need private forum access? You have obviously found a great forum right here in the general area to bitch and complain about.... so that can't be it.

I for one agree with Andaas decision. If you ebay or retire you have no need to see the private forums as the "In Game" related material doesn't pertain to you anymore.

It doesn't really matter why you ebayed. If you needed to pay bills, wanted to buy something for yourself, or your brothers sisters cousins roomate needed a hip transplant. The fact is that you did it and now the result is access removal. (here is my Drakky analogy gone overboard) If you kill somone I doubt the police are going to really care if you did it because you just didn't like the person or just because you felt like it.

As for your time played and contributions to the guild. Sure you may have played every day all day and done everything in your power to help the guild progress and for that you got the items for your character. Effort in = effort out.... But tell me how many raids have you attended since ebaying / Retiering.... my guess is none. so lets look at this equation some.... effort in = 0.... effort out (what the guild and its members owe you) must also equal 0.

[Andriana Duskrose]

SHUT UP GREVAN U R A n00b!!

[Sachiiel]

Why can't we all just smile and be friends, like here

http://www.klaw.org/images/alc_eq000014.jpg

[Andriana Duskrose]

Why can't we all format screenshots so there is no need to side scroll windows? :(

[Maegwin]

Boy...that looks like a failed Dragon Necropolis raid :p

Thunderclap! I remember I took a screenshot of her and Rhedd standing next to each other in Vex Thal and it looked like "Rhedd Clap" heheh.

[Buazag Bonesteel]

whoa.....a thread that's 5 pages long before I even noticed it started. I don't have time to read through all of it now so I put in my 2 cents based on the first page or 2 :D

I don't know what proper etiquette should be for a message board based around a computer game and who should be allowed to post there or not. What I do know is that I put a lot of hours into playing Buaz and feel that I earned all the gear I was awarded.....should be mine to do with as I please once I'm done playinmg the game (*note....I chose not to ebay but that's beside the point) The message boards are in no way about a video game for me. I still come here on a fairly regular basis because I met a lot of people through playing this game with Hoss that I still enjoy sharing a little banter with. If all that was ever discussed in the private forums was related to in game conversation then I wouldn't bother reading it and wouldn't care if my access was removed.

It isn't though. I try to make time at least a few times a wekk to read through and see what everyone is up to.....sometimes I even post a random thought or two of my own ;) I guess what I'm trying to say is that through my time playing EQ as a member of Hoss.....I felt like I became a part of something that went a little beyond a mere game. I will probobly be 80 years old and still think of myself as Hoss (not that I'll say that out loud hehe) If another good game comes up and there's an incarnation of Hoss in it....I hope to be a part of that.

Plus.....I don't see how someone having access to any particular forums can really hurt anyone. Lock out access to the tactics forum if you worry about leakage.....other than that.....it's all just a bunch of people more or less shopoting the shit.

[Nallick]

=/

[Rhedd]

Buazag you have such a way with words! And who says trolls are stupid =o

Ps Maeg your memory must be off =\ I never did the Vex Thal key Quest!

[Kallaill]

Guys seriously, this is going way overboard than it needs to. It's fucking embarrassing to be arguing over something like this and attacking each other the way people have been.

Andaas made the decision to be consistant and remove private access for all players who has ebay'd, old or new. I'm sure it wasn't easy for him since most of the people he removed access from he has known/considers friends since the beginning of Hoss.

Personally I don't mind ebay'd players still having access for the most part, I know they did what they had to do for whatever reason and they would have still liked to keep in touch with some of the friends they have made in this guild and see how the guild has been progressing. The only players I would remove access from are the ones that left on bad terms or ebay'd soon after joining.

Anyways, whatever the case may be I'll be standing behind Andaas's decision 100% wheather people think it's right or wrong.

[BurnemWizfyre]

:)

[Ryukami]

I could have sworn I took druzzil-ro.com off my favorites :rolleyes:

[Thanapur]

Guys seriously, this is going way overboard than it needs to. It's fucking embarrassing to be arguing over something like this and attacking each other the way people have been.

Kallaill, with all due respect (and I do respect you and Andaas alike), this is not embarassing. What's embarassing is to be thrown out of the private forums without any warning or explanation. I don't imagine Andaas has the time or the energy to send us all a PM and perhaps many of you think we don't even deserve that much, but if this had been done with a little warning, maybe we wouldn't be discussing it in public now.


This is what kills me:

Player A quits EQ. Player A posts to the forums that they are going to concentrate on RL or their family or FFXI or whatever. Player A is showered with posts of "Goodluck" and "It was a pleasure" and "Come back and say HI", etc. Player A discontinues his subscription and allows the account to go inactive. After several months, all characters are eventually deleted.
Survey says: JOLLY GOOD OL' CHAP!

Player B quits EQ. Player B posts to the forums that they are going to concentrate on RL or their family or Pong or whatever. Player B is showered with posts of "Goodluck" and "It was a pleasure" and "Come back and say HI", etc. Player B discontinues his subscription and allows the account to go inactive. After several months, Player B decides that instead of deleting their character, they will try to recoup some on their investment and sells said character on PA or what have you.
Survey says: BURN IN HELL YOU ROTTEN STINKING PIECE OF SHIT!

I fail to see how that makes any sense.


Personally, I can tell I am no longer welcome here as I am sure the PMs are flying over this and I have yet to receive a one. Turns out I didn't really have any friends in Hoss. And that's all the embarassment I really need.

[BurnemWizfyre]

Not everyone feels that way thanapur

[Sleepie]

I love my cute Texan~

/hugs and kisses Thana

[Rika]

Can we at last get our names colored Magenta or something instead of default blue?

[Slippy]

I feel used!

[Dharrk]

I feel used!

That's because you are Borg member 00163. :eek:

:D

[Vidmer]

I would like to address the notion "once you are HOSS you are always HOSS"

This idea dates back to a time when HOSS was much smaller and less goal oriented. The guild was of a fundamentaly different nature when people said that. While it was never put in writing there was an unspoken assumption that such a relationship was a two way street. You see there was no need to as in those days people were guilded as much for their "character" as for their "uberness". Ebaying wasn't even really thought of so there was no need for a formal policy. As HOSS grew to meet the demands of EQ skill began to become the most important factor. Unspoken and unchallenged assumption on "HOSSly" behavior were regularly violated. Ebaying your character is perhaps the greatest violation of that unspoken contract.

What many people posting here may have conveniently forgotten is that membership in the HOSS family is a two-way street. It is a set of benefits and responsibilities not just a set of benefits. One of the responsibilities is to keep from tarnishing the name of the guild. Ebaying tarnishes the reputation of all those you leave behind while also undermining the trust of current guildmates. Every time a guildmate I have fought side by side with Ebays (and that would be most every last one) I feel like an ATM machine. I lose all trust in somoene as a guildmate when they Ebay. I know many people have legitimate financial reasons for Ebaying, but my trust dies just the same.

Were HOSS to find itself in a more competitive situation would I feel comfortable knowing people who have sold out once already have access to sensitive information? I personally would not.

Far too often people do not face consequences for their actions, the boasting about exploiting earlier in this thread is a prime example of the danger it causes. Current HOSS should not be allowed to think that Ebaying or other "unethical" acts are acceptable behavior by HOSSlings. To do otherwise is to subconciously invite this sort of behavior. That said most of the social posts in private would be better suited in this forum. I think a concious efford to do so would be a reasonable compromise to those that feel they were misled.

[Obudan]

Player A discontinues his subscription and allows the account to go inactive. After several months, all characters are eventually deleted.

Inactive characters aren't deleted.

[Serendib]

I can see where Drakky is coming from, it's not Just Player A vs. Player B...

Im just lucky I never had access to begin with!

Oh yeah, inactive accounts dont delete characters, I can attest to that... well at least not after 2 years anyway

Vidmer:
If you played EQ for a few years, and needed to... oh I don't know... pay tuition? And EQ was becoming boring to you. Would you care about the HOSS unspoken code? If someone can slap down 2-5 thousand bucks so you can LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD (was the case for me) then if you DONT do it, you're the one with the problem. We don't all have 5 cars in the screenshots forum with beaches in the background...

[Talas]

Vidmer:
If you played EQ for a few years, and needed to... oh I don't know... pay tuition? And EQ was becoming boring to you. Would you care about the HOSS unspoken code? If someone can slap down 2-5 thousand bucks so you can LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD (was the case for me) then if you DONT do it, you're the one with the problem. We don't all have 5 cars in the screenshots forum with beaches in the background...
Not to step on too many toes, but if you are in such bad shape that should require you to sell a video game character, you have absolutely no business picking another one up again.

In those cases, I think it might be good policy not to let anyone back in the fold again, anyway. I certainly don't want to encourage someone to come back into the fold if they are going to get overly addicted and sacrifice everything else in their lives to promote their digital self.

Call it tough love or whatever you want, but if you are in a situation that requires you to sell your character just to scrape by, please don't ever come back; because you'll just end up putting yourself in the same situation once more. Regardless of what anyone else may think, no one in this guild wants to see someone sell their character because they can't even afford to put food on the table.

Bottom line: if you are playing EQ to make money, you are in the wrong business. You will make more money working at McDonalds. If you want to make a quick buck off your character, I don't care; but you shouldn't expect anyone to willingly offer you their hand again if you slapped them in the face.

[Twong]

Not to step on too many toes, but if you are in such bad shape that should require you to sell a video game character, you have absolutely no business picking another one up again.

How about this scenario, a person has been working at Delta Airlines for 3 years, and everything was going great, playing games all the time, but no worries, seemingly, on the horizon. Then, BAM, Delta decides to cut 25% of its workforce and that person is caught up in it. Given todays job market, it takes longer than expected for that person to find a new job. Now that person doesn’t have many bankable assets, but one happens to be a game acct. Should he or should he not sell that asset in order to keep paying for rent, food, etc? I think by all means sell it in order to continue with life.

And lets say after a while, they do get life in order, should the fact that they needed to sell a character in order to get by stop them from playing that game again once they get back on their feet? I don't think so. This scenario wasn’t caused by the game, but rather RL dealing them a temporary bad hand.



In those cases, I think it might be good policy not to let anyone back in the fold again, anyway. I certainly don't want to encourage someone to come back into the fold if they are going to get overly addicted and sacrifice everything else in their lives to promote their digital self.

Call it tough love or whatever you want, but if you are in a situation that requires you to sell your character just to scrape by, please don't ever come back; because you'll just end up putting yourself in the same situation once more. Regardless of what anyone else may think, no one in this guild wants to see someone sell their character because they can't even afford to put food on the table.

Bottom line: if you are playing EQ to make money, you are in the wrong business. You will make more money working at McDonalds. If you want to make a quick buck off your character, I don't care; but you shouldn't expect anyone to willingly offer you their hand again if you slapped them in the face.

I don’t think is as black and white as, selling a char to profit or not. Some have genuine needs, and selling an acct, IMO is fine in that regard. Situations vary, and i think that’s what serendib is trying to say.

[Kattoo Tacit]

Not to step on too many toes, but if you are in such bad shape that should require you to sell a video game character, you have absolutely no business picking another one up again.

In those cases, I think it might be good policy not to let anyone back in the fold again, anyway. I certainly don't want to encourage someone to come back into the fold if they are going to get overly addicted and sacrifice everything else in their lives to promote their digital self.

Call it tough love or whatever you want, but if you are in a situation that requires you to sell your character just to scrape by, please don't ever come back; because you'll just end up putting yourself in the same situation once more. Regardless of what anyone else may think, no one in this guild wants to see someone sell their character because they can't even afford to put food on the table.

Bottom line: if you are playing EQ to make money, you are in the wrong business. You will make more money working at McDonalds. If you want to make a quick buck off your character, I don't care; but you shouldn't expect anyone to willingly offer you their hand again if you slapped them in the face.

The best things in life are free
But you can keep them for the birds and bees
Give me money
Thats' what I want, thats' what I waaaaaaaaant yeah
That's what I want

Your lovin gives me a thrill
But your lovin don't pay my bills
Give me money
That's what I want, thats what I waaaaaaaaant yeah
That's what I want

Money don't get everything its true
But what it don't get I can't use
Give me money
Lotsa money
That's what I waaaaaaaaant yeah
That's what I want

Give me money
Lotsa money
A whole lotta money
Just give me some money
That's what I waaaaaaaaaant yeah
That's what I want

Give me money
Lotsa money
Just give me money
A whole lotta money
That's what I waaaaaaaaaant yeah
That's what I want

[Talas]

lol

[Illegal]

Save for the jokes, there hasn't been an original thought in this thread since the third or fourth post.

Love the 'revoked citizenship due to ebaying' thing though ~

[Vidmer]

By all means if you need to sell your character to pay the bills you should. It is your choice and your choice alone. Does selling your character make you a bad person? No, just a liability to a guild. Think of selling your character as selling stock in a company, once that stock is gone you have lost your voting rights no matter how much you may appreciate the company.

Perhaps we should have a discussion on what the consequences for Ebaying should be if any. I am open to dicussing the lose and gain inherent in tolerating sellers. Is there a net benefit to the guild, a net lose, an even break? Is there a way to protect against abuse? Should HOSS have an uniform policy or make judgements on an individual basis.

[Varran]

If you have the need to sell your account for any reason why would you feel a need to post in private forums here?

The ebayers are still allowed to post in the public forums, they are not banned from the site. They can still share thoughts with their friends, they just can't do so in the private section.

[Serendib]

Talas:

I played EQ through highschool. I quit when I started university, I sold my character because a) eq went to crap, and b) student loans are gay, c) I hear good grades are important

You obviously come from a family where financial problems havent arisen, so I feel no need to comment on a situation you do not understand.

It wasnt a case of "I need this money to eat, I have no job" etc.. its just a cause of "Extra money from a game that went to all hell would be pretty cool". I was a firm believer in non-ebaying until I quit. Then it just seemed fitting that I could make 40 cents an hour playing a GAME I had enjoyed for so long.

I never sold an item until I quit, or a single platinum piece. But when I realized my character was never going to be logged into again, why not sell it? If someone came to your door with money and layed it there, would you spend it? Or leave it on the floor? Shrug..

[nwinn]

<3 Beatles

[Shik]

another irrelevant post by me

touchy subject eh~ i can feel for all sides of the fence here, obviously giving inactive members access to the private part of the message boards is a no no, regardless of ebay or not, im sure hoss has as many board leaks as we did. Then i feel for people like drakky who feel they helped father a guild and now get cut out...there is no win win but at the end of the day andaas decision is the smart one for the sake of the guild. I would remove peoples access the second they deguilded/ebayed, inactivity is a tougher issue though.

funny how the ebay topic still goes on, years ago it was a crime to ebay now it is much much more accepted...i think most of us including myself were 100% against ebay, and i was the first person to try to block people who i smelt a hint of ebay in, like elidroth into SoN, and look how wrong i was hes a great guy(i'm been serious not joking)

all i can say is the ebay runs deep...in hoss, out of hoss, it is all around you, do most of you know cinder got banned for ebaying? fucking cinder!!
I'm just glad my group of friends all quit around the same time, and we kind of accepted hey we all put in so much fucking time to this game..why the fuck not..we deserve it, so ebay became accepted amongst us. I'm one of the people who isnt starving for the money but i didnt work or do shit for years so that cash is still nice to have.

i cant think of a punchline, its a crap situation, but the pissed people i guess you just have to understand they are still trying to run a secure eq guild, even though eq is not your concerns anymore.

ps. anyone want to buy shik?

[Talas]

Talas:
It wasnt a case of "I need this money to eat, I have no job" etc.. its just a cause of "Extra money from a game that went to all hell would be pretty cool". I was a firm believer in non-ebaying until I quit. Then it just seemed fitting that I could make 40 cents an hour playing a GAME I had enjoyed for so long.
It was probably wrong for me to quote your earlier post following with my opinions, because it really wasn't relevant to your idea. My opinion doesn't really reflect on your personal decision, but rather to those people that ruined their financials because of EQ.

I honestly understand your motives, and I can't be the one to judge whether what you did was wrong or right (I might have done the same if I were in your situation, like you mentioned). Sorry to pressure you to defend your personal situation.

But like many have said in the previous posts, if you sell that character (which you have the right to - pending it doesn't violate EULA :p) to buy a car, put money down on a house, pay rent, or buy a really cool big screen TV, you have violated some people's trust. And once you have violated it, you can't really expect things to be the same. So yea, you can't have your cake and eat it too, but I think most of the people here understand that anyway - so it is moot.

And to those that don't, well - hopefully you will learn it someday without the curtain of anonymnity that that Internet shields you with! :p

[Myztlee]

Oh, what the hell, had to say something.

I sold my account. In guild. If nobody in guild had made an offer, and someone out of the guild had, I would have taken it. If that got me banned from the public boards, oh well, whatever, I still read, even occasionally post, but wouldn't feel like it was some deep insult, and I was in the guild from about the 2nd or 3rd week of release, with a few "I quits" along the way. Hell, I was once guild leader for a while, though really only because nobody else wanted it, nor cared, nor thought it was something to be respected, certainly not while it was me.

Then again, if there were people in Hoss I really wanted to keep in touch with, there's either the general board, PMs or email. Being banned from the private section wouldn't suddenly cut me off from anyone I couldn't still contact a number of other ways, and while there are some entertaining posts there, I wouldn't feel shunned by people I once thought of as dear, close friends.

I guess I'm glad I sold within guild, means I still get to read a bit more than I would if I hadn't, but none of it really concerns me, it's more for the entertainment value, and sometimes it's interesting to see what's still going on in a world that was once a very big part of my own.

By quitting the game and selling your character out of guild, you removed yourself from the game completely. You still have access to the general boards. But while there's really very little in the private boards that could be considered top secret, that shouldn't be read by people no longer involved with the game, I can completely understand the reasoning that "If you don't play the game, if you wanted to sever all ties by selling out of guild, then why would 1) you want to read about things that don't concern you 2) we want you to read about things that don't concern you". I quit, you left, you can still talk to anyone you want in the general section, PM, email, whatever, but when you quit a company, they usually don't keep inviting you to the board meetings. You can still visit, but you're no longer an employee, and as such, do not enjoy certain priviledges anymore.

So, deal with it.

And if you would like to counter with "You can say that because you still have private access", I'd be happy to volunteer having my private access revoked if that will somehow prove a point. But I won't, because I don't have to prove anything to anyone around here.

If you feel deeply insulted about losing access, that's unfortunate, especially if you had to sell because of severe financial instability, that you had absolutely no other choice, it was either sell or lose your apartment, house, dog, wife, groceries, whatever. It's not your fault that you were broke and that you could get more money out of guild than in, but it was your life at stake, you did what you had to do, and if that results in your being removed from the private boards, and you feel that you've had people turn their backs on you when you were just trying to survive, again, get over it. What's the big deal? So you can't go to the board meetings any more, even though you really loved the free donuts. You haven't been banned from the building, you can still get together after work (ok, the analogy is getting old, but it does work).

Now, if you sold just for some fun money, because you didn't really need it but figured you could get some extra cash, who cares about how others might feel, then do you really think you should still have access?

I just don't understand why it's such a big deal. You quit EQ, you don't play, you sold out of guild, if you want to stay in touch with the people, use the general boards, PMs, email, but there's no reason to think you should be involved, or have access to, the innerworkings and private conversations of those that still play.

Oh, and one last thing - to those saying if someone sold their character, they should never be allowed to play any game ever again - I say blow me. You've clearly never been in a really rough financial situation, then recovered. Since January we were totally broke, just making rent was always a panic. I'm still $5000 in debt to my credit card, but at the time was also in deep with every other bill possible. We're recovering now, we had a really good month of employment, and hopefully it'll continue. We're still definitely not out of the hole, but we also have no plans on staying there forever. I don't intend on being hand to mouth poor the rest of my life, and will fairly soon be comfortable enough financially that if I wanted to spend $15 a month on a game, it would not be a question of that or eating for a few days. I'm fully hoping to have enough money to play WoW when it goes retail, though that will depend on what the finished product is like.

Nobody should be telling anyone what they can do with their lives (though in saying that, I guess I'm doing it too), and definitely should not be making broad comments that generalize and even trivialize certain people's predicaments.

Ebaying for profit is a good way to burn bridges for future involvement in anything the EQ Hoss plans on doing (though how the other incarnations of Hoss may feel could be entirely different), but every case has circumstances that would need to be considered.

At the moment, the decision has been that if you have quit EQ and sold outside the guild, you have quit being an active member of an organization, by choice or by necessity, and as such, no longer have access to some things you were used to. Entirely fair. It might not be a big deal, is there anything in the private boards you absolutely should not be reading? Doubtful, but since it doesn't concern you, it's not your choice.

I don't really support it either way. Mainly because I think it's ridiculous for such a big deal to be made of it. You quit, you sold out of guild, why do you expect you'd still be considered a part of it? If you want to stay in touch with people, go right ahead.

I just don't get it. Reality check, please.

[Peotr]

I have thought about this a lot. I'm not sure if I can put my finger on the pulse of my feelings, but after reading all these posts I feel that one thing really stands out for me:

It's fucking eBay, not gawdamned Ebay. Fuckers.


Anal retentively yours,

-- Peotr (The Normal Guy) &copy;&trade;

P.S. There is no hyphen in anal retentive. Fuckers.

[Ktul]

I still <3 you all =/ even Nallick!

[Parak]

:D @ MH and Peotr

[Woodash]

Hey Shik, this is for you :P

http://dbq.com/kass/EQPictures/EQpics2-01/Images/Shik-SHINY.jpg

And Drakky, lookeee dat quest armor and OMG EPIC!

http://dbq.com/kass/EQPictures/EQpics2-01/Images/WoodDrakk.jpg

[Kattoo Tacit]

And Drakky, lookeee dat quest armor and OMG EPIC![/IMG]

Looks like Cobalt armor to me =o

[Gogo]

I asked and nobody in guild offered me anything... is it my fault that I sold out of guild then?

Just a thought. :D

[Supa]

/Ponders if the other non-ebayed retired folks will be next?

I never ebayed :) I came back..was never a HOSS member though.

[Myztlee]

I asked and nobody in guild offered me anything... is it my fault that I sold out of guild then?

Just a thought. :D

I think I may have covered that in my post; if not, I was certainly thinking it, but I don't feel like reading it again to confirm.

I did offer in guild, and got a response. If, however, I had not, but had somone out of guild offer me money, or, offer me more than the one I received in guild, I would have taken it.

It's not my "fault" I sold out of guild, but it was still my choice to sell it at all. And if I had gone out of guild, even if nobody in guild made an offer, and I was then removed from the private section, I would have been fine with that. Hell, if they don't even want my CHARACTER in the guild, why would I care about the inner workings of said guild? If there are people I still want to talk to, I have the general section, PMs, emails. I've repeated this many times.

You sell out of guild, you are no longer considered a part of the guild, so you do not have access to the private board for that guild. You are not banned from the board entirely, you are not forbidden from posting or staying in contact with anyone you want to. I just don't understand why this is such a big deal. I made the analogy before, I'll do it again:

If you quit a job, you are no longer an employee. You may still be on good terms with a few, some, many or all of the people that still work there. You may well get together for lunch, after work, and maybe even occasionally invited to the office christmas party, but you are not an employee any more. As such, you will not be allowed to attend office meetings, planning sessions, or provide input on vision statements. You might not even be allowed in the building any more, if it were the kind that required some sort of security pass.

But you can still talk to anyone in that office that you would like to talk to. You might even get to work in the new branch that just opened up across town, and get to attend all new office meetings. But for now, all that happened is you were removed from the meeting minutes mailing list.

Big deal.

[Vestax]

Messy People!.... Messy Lifes!

Oh and Like Hi all and stuff :D

[Eomer]

hi

[Dharrk]

Messy People!.... Messy Lifes!

Oh and Like Hi all and stuff :D

hi mate, IM me, and come to the US

[Vinilaa]

Messy People!.... Messy Lifes!



um that's "lives" sweetie. :o :D

Hihi I miss. ;)

[Azis]

Vest!! Muahahahahahahaaa

How you been brother =) PM me man, crazy shammy~

[Tarissa]

Messy People!.... Messy Lifes!

Oh and Like Hi all and stuff :D

My most memorable moment with vestax was when he impersonated Aed over yahoo voice chat while me and drakky hung out there and sounding so god damn ridiculous. Sad part is I kind of bought it was him for the first few minutes :(

[Tarissa]

My tribute, to the tune of "She Thinks I Still Care"

Just because I asked a friend about 'em
Just because I joined a guild somewhere
Just because I launched EQ by mistake today
Hoss thinks I care

Just because I hunt the same old places
Where the corpses of them litter everywhere
Just because I'm not the happy rogue I used to be
Hoss thinks I still care

If they're maybe thinking I still need 'em
Don't let that foolish guild zone in here
How could they ever be so foolish?
How could they ever get such an idea?
Hoss thinks I still care

Just because I asked a friend about 'em
Just because I joined a guild somewhere
Just because I lost my forums
and then went all to pieces
Hoss thinks I still care

If they're happy thinking I still need 'em
Don't let that silly guild bring a tear
Where'd they ever get such a foolish notion?
How could they ever get such an idea?
Hoss thinks I
Stiiiillll
Caaaaaaareeeee

(fade out)

(weep)

[Vestax]

<3 Tarissa... ima lub the hump hump :)

[Jalynfane]

Unnoticed online gaming communities flourish

Andy Phelps, a professor of Information Technology at the Rochester Institute, believes that the culture of online gaming communities has evolved into a truly amazing social application which is not being noticed by the big media companies that produce these games.

Phank.com, is a community website that does sells conventional products, like T-shirts, but also serves as a forum for players tired of their online personas to sell them online for cold hard cash.

"A community like phank formed when first generation games originated," Phelps said. "Phank originated from Everquest. And they are not breaking apart. But they are waiting to see which way the horde will go."

"What's interesting is that these communities take various social interfaces and do things like inserting XML sockets into their web communities," Phelps added. "So player games are using cascading style sheets, XML, et cetera – then ripping over top of a game or over top of several other games so they can keep together. They have paging/messaging services so you get to know what's happening in team games even in the office."

All of these innovations have evolved from a dedicated community of hackers, who have taken someone else's work, added to it, and produced something greater than the sum of its parts. "It's difficult to attract half a million people and keep them hooked – but it's happening," O'Reilly said.


http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1159801,00.asp


I just like posting this, as slashdot.com reported that we made THOUSANDS of dollars selling on ebay, which is not true, but still funny.

[Thanapur]

Hmmmmm... is it too late to join Phank? ;)

[sendain]

ROFL I love this Shit WoOT.

And lets Boot some People please..

[Thanapur]

ROFL I love this Shit WoOT.

And lets Boot some People please..

You are absolutely right, Sendain.
Please remove me from the "Inactive" list and move me to the "eBayed and Booted" list.

[Daisiee]

You are absolutely right, Sendain.
Please remove me from the "Inactive" list and move me to the "eBayed and Booted" list.here I made an avatar for everyone feel free to use it.

[Zappo]

here I made an avatar for everyone feel free to use it.
thank you for thinking of us Daisiee <3
i should post all the fun things i can get with ~3k!

[Gogo]

here I made an avatar for everyone feel free to use it.
Thanks Daisiee, but I like mine better.

[Daisiee]

lol gogo.

[Vestax]

Zappo you little NJ Sex Fiend! how is the NJ Crew.... Still lots of h00 h00 humpin out dere :p

[Orrlaar]

I didn't take the time to read this bullshit because I'm too lazy, but..
I say give all former members limited access to a private vet forum. :) :):) :) :D

ps. jon is gay :p

[Trevlen]

I didn't take the time to read this bullshit because I'm too lazy, but..
I say give all former members limited access to a private vet forum. :) :):) :) :D

ps. jon is gay :p

Damn... blast from the past....Thats a name i haven't seen in a long time

[Dharrk]

mr. gerguk, hi

[Vinilaa]

I didn't take the time to read this bullshit because I'm too lazy, but..
I say give all former members limited access to a private vet forum. :) :):) :) :D

ps. jon is gay :p

<3 Orrlaar

[Canare1]

Thanks Daisiee, but I like mine better.

Kick ass.

[Aindayen]

This thread makes me sick to my stomach :/

Ain

[Rhedd]

Orrlaar is right =\ Jon is gay! Gerguk was a dumb stupid fak. Orrlaar The Shiny Forheaded mage was the win.

[Kallaill]

Gerguk > Orrlaar =\


Hi Gerg! :D

[Buldar]

Canare how much did you get for your toon>? cuz i ran into the new owner and he is a total poon......there should have been some cost added to your selling price...i was personally thinking that a 100% mark up for poonishness would have been about right.

Regards

Bul