Rotation Schedule

[Quintall_ML]

Trak - Hoss (P1-10/23), NI (10/23), L`Malla (10/09), VE (added 10/10), GAP (10/13), ML (10/16), IG (10/20)

Sev - IG (T-Hoss 9/24), L`Malla(10/11), NI (T - Vind 9/13), GAP (T-VE 9/29), Vindi (T - CN 9/13), Hoss (T-IG), VE (T-GAP)

Ragefire {Naggy Down 10/23} - ML (10/24), TV (added 10/25), GAP (10/12 out of turn), Hoss(T - 9/6 ), VE (9/9), NI (9/12), L`Malla (T - VH 9/14), Vind (Missed turn, up next), IG (10/20), TR (10/22)

CT - Hoss (T-L`Malla 10/23), L`Malla (T-Hoss), Vind (P3 - 10/15), ML (10/16)

Dain - ML (10/20), Hoss (T-Vind), Vind (T-Hoss 10/22), L`Malla (F-10/19)

Tormax - Vindi (Due 10/24), ML (added 10/24), Hoss (10/22)

Dozekar - Hoss (10/16), IG (F - 10/15), Vind (P1-10/16)

Lend - Vindi (10/22), Hoss (10/23), L'Malla (Added 10/09) ML (10/15)

Zland - Hoss (T-L`Malla 10/09?), IG (Added 10/10), L`Malla (T-Hoss 9/29), Vind (10/10), ML (10/16)

Klandicar - Hoss (P2-10/04), ML (10/18), Vind (10/22), L`Malla (added 10/25)

Yelinak - ML () Vind (), Hoss (), L`Malla (added 10/25)

ST Warders - ML (10/18), Vind (10/23), Hoss (T-Vind 10/10)

N ToV: Hoss (10/21-?), L`Malla (added 10/25), ML (10/5-10/11), Vind (10/12-10/20)


You know the drill - follow with confirmed dates when mob is down
also double check to be sure you are in the rotations you want to be in

I know it is a pain sometimes - but please post a quick note when a mob is taken down by your guild so we can keep the rotation updated

There are now some (P) up there on various mobs, based on the fact they lived through the days those guilds were due for them. I'll be putting the dates with them and the F's as well.


[Brackets] are temporary removals from rotations.

Added L`Malla to the Lend rotation.

Added IG to the Zlandicar rotation.

Added VE to the Trak rotation.

10/23 Added North ToV to the rotation schedule.

10/24 Added Yelinak to the rotation schedule.

10/25 Added L`Malla to Klandicar, Yelinak, NToV rotations.

Current Rotations:
Trak = L`Malla
CT = Hoss
Zlan = Hoss
Dain = Hoss
Ragefire = Vind
Sev = NI
Tormax = Hoss
Doze = IG
Lend = L`Malla
ST = Hoss
Klan = Hoss

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

CT dead, and by god, the light was shining on us tonight, because he actually dropped 4 things, including a robe. I'm still stunned lol.

[Ciner]

3 warders dead in the early A.M of the 24th, EDT.

[Ciner]

Reguarding ragefire. Did Kryai speak to you about it before Rage pop'd or no Thanatoz?

If he did it should have been a legit trade... Would like to get to the bottom of this, we need it the same as the rest of ya, had a few people at the Nag kill tonight just to get this moving...

[Andaas]

Lendinaira dead 10/23 around 6:45 pm pacific.

[Rohaise]

Is Tormax still on rotation?

ML is considering killing him, and noticed he survived the night.

[Andaas]

Hoss killed Tormax on the 22nd. I'm assuming he is on rotation still, as we have been letting Vindication go for him.

[Rohaise]

So if Vindication passed on him tonight, will Hoss be going for him on Wednesday? If not, ML may be interested.

[Wyvern]

Vind is going after Tormax tonite, wednesday the 24th.

[Quintall_ML]

So, is that an extension Wyvern?

[Sirensa]

Yes Tormax is still on rotation.

On Monday when Ciner approached me about trading Monday's spawn, he asked if we wouldn't mind if they did Tormax on Wednesday after patch instead of Tuesday, since we were on Monday. Since Hoss is in Ntov, and we are the only 2 guilds on rotation, we agreed.

It is not an extension on Vindication's part, it was a courtsey on ours. Didn't involve anyone else.

[Quintall_ML]

Considering ML was looking to give em a shot for once and decided to try it on seeing he was still up, perhaps we need to go look at that *hidden handshake* thiing again. Woulda taken the same time to have posted that prior to the patch spawn that it did to post it just now, and prevented the question about trying him from even arising.

[Baramos1]

Put Mythic Legion on the Tormax rotation, please.

[Sirensa]

Originally posted by Quintall_ML
Considering ML was looking to give em a shot for once and decided to try it on seeing he was still up, perhaps we need to go look at that *hidden handshake* thiing again. Woulda taken the same time to have posted that prior to the patch spawn that it did to post it just now, and prevented the question about trying him from even arising.
Well considering ML was looking to give him a shot and he was on a rotation, you can post your intentions and join the rotation, which I see you did. It's no hidden handshake, and did not concern you.

What exactly is the problem? Were you planning on taking a mob that is on rotation without waiting your turn as is appropriate? If you wanted in on tormax, why didn't you post your desire to be put on rotation earlier?

You're on rotation now, you'll get your turn when it is time.

[Thanatoz]

Did Kryai speak to you about it before Rage pop'd or no Thanatoz?

-----------

Yes I spoke to Kryai about a week prior to our killing of Ragefire. You can be assured the next time one of ya give me a tell in game wanting to negotiate something...ill be sure to post it here.

shh Sirensa, our gnome "thing" is still our little secret, I wont bring our gnome negotiations to the IGB.

[Sirensa]

mmmm gnomes wink wink Thanatoz ;)

*zips lips*

[Quintall_ML]

Sirensa,

No we weren't trying to bypass the rotation.

We asked after seeing he was left up by the guild that was due for him, if the next guild due for him would be killing him, and if not, then we'd like to try him.

Considering that would have constitued a full rotation having had a shot and left it up, we were being polite in trying to work something to give em a go, here, in public, rather than making it seem like a back room deal that would have shut a guild out of a spawn.

We're on the rotation now, and as with all our rotations, will follow it killing him when we are up.

[Quintall_ML]

BTW, "It's no hidden handshake, and did not concern you", I believe has been overly addressed in other threads.

You've already been informed that ML, as well as other guilds here, will at some point be killing any and all mobs currently in the game. Those on a rotation of any sort, even a mutual agreement, should show here so there is no 6-7 post discussions to figure out *why* another guild can't kill it.

Just post the damn agreements come to Sirensa, it takes what, 45 seconds out of your day, where as going through this crap everytime someone wants to get in on something takes far longer for all involved.

[Sirensa]

Dear Quintall,

Last night Thanatoz discussed a gnome sharing situation with me, but it is starting to go sour. He demanded I let him have a fair shot at the gnomes, but I didn't want to share and I kept them an extra night for myself. We may Guildwar over it sometime soon. It's not your business, but I thought you might want to know in case it comes out sometime in the future.

That's my nightly update. Thanks!

[Quintall_ML]

I didn't know a gnome could last that long.

You know what I mean Sirensa, as they relate to the mobs here. There's no reason to argue this other than our own mutual mule-headed stubborn attitudes really, just post arrangements as they pertain to the rotations so we can avoid showing everyone how stubborn we can be.

Maybe I'll even get ya a fresh gnome so you won't have to share with Than anymore.

[Baramos1]

I think Quintall and Sirensa need to get a room.

[Sirensa]

Bah =\

You've discovered my weakness for gnomes.

[Ciner]

Why are we marked as pasing on Tormax yesterday. I think Sirensa made it quite clear we had arranged to kill Tormax today because we were on warders last night...

Wyvern also made our intentions today clear, yet we are showing as passing Tormax...

Also as Than posted, we did infact have an agreement with IG to trade Rage up to a week before he spawned. Meaning we should be up now, right?

If the updates are getting too much for you Quint I'm sure someone else could handle them properly.

[Andaas]

The Tormax deal is quite simple actually. There were two guilds in the rotation, Hoss and Vindication. With Hoss having other committments this week, Vindication was not under any obligation or pressure to take out Tormax on his spawn day, and this was acceptable to Hoss, the other guild in the rotation.

Mythic Legion requested to be added to the rotation late Monday evening. ML will then follow position in the rotation as has happened with all other rotations, added from the day they requested addition.

ML has no say to any prior agreements made before their request to be added to the rotation. It is simply not your business, as you were not a part of the rotation until you made a public request.

[Baramos1]

I agree.

[Ciner]

Bara did you get my email?

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

Did NI take out Trak last night? When I had logged I think they were prepping for a second shot, but not 100% sure on that.

Would like to get confirmation since my plans for tonight were thwarted by the ebil ML killing Telk/Gozz last night ;)

Basically I need an idea of what to kill tonight! :)


Disclaimer: ebil ML = joke, I'm not in the mood to get into a fight over something stupid today ;)

[Sows McBuff]

trak went down around 1am CST, i just didn't have enough toothpicks left to prop my eyes open and post it. also undead bard popped afterwards for anyone who needs a spawned trak.
btw, my understanding from sirensa was that we were trading traks, not that they were passing. but whaddo i know :D

[Sirensa]

Just as a sidenote..

Although we bi-passed him last night, Hoss still plans to kill Ikitiar as part of our ntov rotation.

Please leave him up for us, we'll be back to get him.

Thanks!

[Quintall_ML]

"If the updates are getting too much for you Quint I'm sure someone else could handle them properly."

Where in the hell do you get that from. Post yer dates and yer arrangements, and they get noted just fine.

I've adjusted the Tormax thingy to please you oh great and wise Ciner, note that is had sown P1-10/23...yesterday, and was put up there like that prior to the whole series of posts we just went through on the subject.

Vind killed Ragefire on the 21st according to what we have been told (see the archives I believe), ML is up for him now, TR got him the 22nd. ML also had peeps at the last couple of Nagafens, as well as helping various Ragefires, to ensure the rotation got kick started again. Whatever happened with you and IG, because it wasn't posted here till after the fact and long after GAP had killed it out of turn, is very hard to work back in at this point. GAP, IG, Vind, TR is the order the dates show Rage going down, out of order for sure, but done is done, let's get it moving on. ML's cleric is waiting for this coming Rage as we speak.


Edit: Just logged in and saw Ragefire dying. Updating the rotation.

[Wyvern]

--"Vind killed Ragefire on the 21st according to what we have been told"

Negative. Vindication's last Ragefire was eons ago.. And I dont like this use of speculation as fact.

So now after trading with IG we have been summarily rotation hopped twice..

--"to please you oh great and wise Ciner"

I think recess is over, lets give the patronizing sarcasm a rest.

[Enki_VE]

Originally posted by Sows McBuff
trak went down around 1am CST, i just didn't have enough toothpicks left to prop my eyes open and post it. also undead bard popped afterwards for anyone who needs a spawned trak.
VE is planning on spawning Trakanon tonight and requests that the UDB be left up. If anyone else was planning on spawning Trakanon please let me know.

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

Lend a straight 7 day spawn?

[Baramos1]

One of the reasons that Vind's Ragefire was eons ago was because everyone sat here with his thumb up his ass instead of working to kill Nagafen.

I think the rotation stalled on Vind, as a matter of fact.

Look, we're all guilty of allowing this latency of spawn to happen, by waiting around for "someone" to kill Naggy.

We have a proposal by someone, somewhere on this board. I suggest we all review it, ratify it, and make it so.

As for recess, and juvenile language and attitude, take a look at Ciner's post, and don't try and tell me that Ciner's comment about Quintall needing help updating the board wasn't a dig, or "attitude" or sarcasm.

Same with your gay webpage, and your "who me" comments directed to Quint when he asked you to do something about it.

We're all waiting in ML for the grade-cards to come out for you Vind members, in fact, so your mommies and daddies take your computer priveleges away from you and we can have some relative peace on the server again !

You guys don't like sarcasm? Tough shit. Don't instigate it or it'll get thrown right back at you.

Have a nice day~! Don't be vile~~!

Baramos

[Ciner]

If the rotation had been correctly documented there would have been no snide comments.

As it stands we should be killing Tmax today and up for the next Ragefire(yet retain our current location in rotation).

I dont care about hurt feelings, or whos ego as bruised. I just come here to make sure we are getting our share of the mobs.

[Baramos1]

Ciner -

Like Quint said, he hadn't gotten around to updating it today, but for some reason you guys got your panties in a twist. Everyone has RL to attend to, and sometimes 24 hours will pass before the rotation gets upgraded.

As to the issue of Ragefire - no one wants to see you guys get hosed out of anything. We have all the rotation posts archived here on this board. Just point out where Vind made the trade request or noted that it had happened in the archives, and I'm sure we can make it all good.

No sweat.

Baramos

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

*blinks*

Kumbaya baby, Kumbaya


Ya know, I'm glad I don't like any of you guys equally, cause I'd hate to have to pick sides ;)

[Sirensa]

Ya know, I'm glad I don't like any of you guys equally, cause I'd hate to have to pick sides
I thought you hated me most :( Now I don't feel special.


Have a nice day~! Don't be vile~~!
Vile is a trademark of Hoss. That's gonna cost you ONE GNOME for using without my express permission!

Doomit. Grrrr.

[Baramos1]

~grumble~

[Thanatoz]

Hey so from my understanding Hoss is in Ntov. Hoss is also up for Zoolander. Is hoss going to pass? Because if so I really need to get like super prepared. Im talking crazy prepared and shit.

Btw I heard that hoss was passing from Baramos who was talking to Ciner who was talking to Sirensas poodle who was fucking Quintalls cat. Sick world we live in eh?

edit:it could be also be possible that Hoss will trade this spawn with IG and not just "pass"

[Baramos1]

I never said that.

I said I thought they were passing.

It was up to the cat to verify it. (But she was busy.)

Bara

[Ciner]

Originally posted by Thanatoz
Did Kryai speak to you about it before Rage pop'd or no Thanatoz?

-----------

Yes I spoke to Kryai about a week prior to our killing of Ragefire. You can be assured the next time one of ya give me a tell in game wanting to negotiate something...ill be sure to post it here.

Should be enough Bara, no?

[Baramos1]

Yeah, seems to be, Ciner.

It's out of context, though, and I'm a tad confused by it.

Can you point us to the post? What it seems to be saying is that some discussion between someone and someone about Ragefire was happening.

I don't know who Thana's talking about there, or etc.

If it's saying what it looks like it's saying then, yeah, looks like you guys should be up for next Rage.

Bara

[Baramos1]

So, ok, on the off chance that it was so recent as the current thread (heh) I flipped back a couple of pages.

Yeah, so looks like you traded, IG went ahead with their part of the trade, and you got skipped then? That the story?

If so yeah, just insert yourself for next Rage, then we resume normal rotations.

Bara

[Ciner]

Yes exactly. IG got, then there was some confusion as to weither we had gotten or if the trade with IG was legit.

Sounds good though, will tell Kryai to keep up to date on Rage.

[Sirensa]

Thanatoz -

Sure, we'll trade Zlandicar's with you. His spawn is kinda random though so no way to pinpoint what day he will be up. We may be done in NToV or not, but if it will help you to start planning now - I'm all for trading *IF* my poodle likes you. If she tries to hump your leg - well then, that's another story....

So yeah that works fine - we'll let you know if we happen to see him up.

[Thanatoz]

gdeal I shall leave work now so I can run to DN and camp Zoolander.

[Rohaise]

Just logged in. Zlandicar is up now.

[Baramos1]

Klan popped late tonight.

Roh worked with Sirensa and Hoss is passing.

ML will have him dead within 24 hours.

Bara

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

blah i'm not awake yet -

Scoop on Zland?

[Rezz]

Please add L`Malla to Klandicar and NToV rotations. And incase it might be missed in the other thread, add L`Malla to Yelinak.

[Thanatoz]

IG will be doing Zlan tongiht.

That be the scoop:)

[Rohaise]

King Tormax -

Vindication failed.

Is Hoss going to be attempting him?

Tormax Timeline:

10/22 - Hoss killed.
10/23 - Vindi was up, but passed. ML added to rotation.
10/24 - Hoss passed. Vindi up, and failed.
10/25 - Tormax still alive.

[Andaas]

Hoss will be passing on Tormax tonight, so I guess its Vindication's turn again.

[Rohaise]

No, it should be ML's turn.

Re-read the chronology.


10/22 - Hoss killed.
10/23 - Vindi was up, but passed. ML added to rotation.
10/24 - Hoss passed. Vindi up, and failed.
10/25 - Tormax still alive.

We've gone through a whole rotation now.

Vindi passed on 10/23. That night ML was added to the rotation.

Then Hoss passed, allowing Vindication to go again.

Vindication failed.

ML has now waited a full rotation since we were added (Hoss passed, Vindi failed).

ML should be up, today, from what I understand of the IGB Rotation Guidelines:


a. New Mobs: The guild or guilds that have solely been accomplishing a mob will start out the rotation. As each new guild decides to try thier hand at the mob, thier name is added with a "join date". The new Joiner is added in the spot of the current rotation but must wait one full rotation before being "up" for the spawn.

We have now waited one full rotation, putting us up today.

Vindi passed -> ML added -> Hoss passed -> Vindi attempted ( -> ML now up).

That's a full rotation.

[Rohaise]

Yelinak -

Vindication, Hoss, and L`Malla asked to be added to a Yelinak rotation.

ML had been the only guild killing him.

Once again, the IGB Rotation Guidelines state:



I. Adding a New rotation:

a. New Mobs: The guild or guilds that have solely been accomplishing a mob will start out the rotation. As each new guild decides to try thier hand at the mob, thier name is added with a "join date". The new Joiner is added in the spot of the current rotation but must wait one full rotation before being "up" for the spawn.

Rotation should then go like this:

ML (10/23), Vindication (joined 10/24), Hoss (joined 10/24), L`Malla (joined 10/25)

[Baramos1]

Yeah, let's not get into any game-playing here, please.

Let's just do the fair, right thing.

It's clearly ML's shot at Tormax.

If ML wanted to, we could claim that ML is up for the first Yelinak in the new rotation for Yelinak, based on rules, but we'd clearly be jerks if we did that.

So, just say "Hey bro, good luck," and we can all be happpy tonight.

When Yelinak comes up for Vind and Hoss we'll say "Hey bro, good luck."


Bara

[Sirensa]

Originally posted by Andaas
The Tormax deal is quite simple actually. There were two guilds in the rotation, Hoss and Vindication. With Hoss having other committments this week, Vindication was not under any obligation or pressure to take out Tormax on his spawn day, and this was acceptable to Hoss, the other guild in the rotation.

Mythic Legion requested to be added to the rotation late Monday evening. ML will then follow position in the rotation as has happened with all other rotations, added from the day they requested addition.

ML has no say to any prior agreements made before their request to be added to the rotation. It is simply not your business, as you were not a part of the rotation until you made a public request.

Originally posted by Baramos1
I agree.


10/22 - Hoss killed.
10/23 - Vindi was up, but passed. ML added to rotation.
10/24 - Hoss passed. Vindi up, and failed.
10/25 - Tormax still alive.

10/23 - Vindication did NOT pass this day
10/24 - Hoss did NOT pass this day.

ML's post to be put on tormax rotation was 10/24 - 9:24am - by Baramos. ML was added to the rotation 10/24, not 10/23.

[Baramos1]

Look. I want this thread on this issue to end right here.

No arguments about it, because if we start arguing we'll be right back to square one.

Let's just ponder what's fair shall we?

Hoss and Vind both got fair shots at Tormax.

ML just did a couple of Yelinaks.

Do we want to act like dicks about this, or be civilized.

I vote civilized.

The civilized answer is that ML goes for Tormax tonight, and Vind and Hoss get their shot at Yelinak as shown in the current rotations.

People were hollering on this board awhile back about "the letter of the law" and being "flexible".

Time to put your money where your mouth is.

Let's not be stupid here, folks.

Baramos

[Rohaise]

10/22 - Hoss killed.
10/23 - Vindi was up, but passed.
10/24 - ML added to rotation. Hoss passed. Vindi up, and failed.
10/25 - Tormax still alive.

Sirensa, the order is still correct.

ML was added *before* Vindi's attempt on the 24th.

It's very simple.

1) ML Added.
2) Hoss passed.
3) Vindication failed.
4) ML up.

That's a whole rotation we have waited.

If Vindication gets two attempts after ML asked to be added to the rotation, that breaks the rules agreed to in the guidelines.

[Andaas]

My post yesterday was made to show that nobody passed on Tormax on the 23rd. That was obviously not realized by ML.

Nobody passed on Tormax on the 23rd because there was only 2 guilds in the rotation on that day. Vindication and Hoss, being the only 2 guilds in the rotation, were both agreeable to the spawn waiting until Wednesday to die.

As I posted, Mythic Legion has no right to contest or object to this spawn prior to their request to be added to the rotation. Your request to be added came in late Tuesday/early Wednesday -- Vindication was up for their 1st rotation spot since your request on Wednesday.

Baramos even agreed, although he obviously didn't get my point.

[Andaas]

The silly part of all this is that Vindication hasn't even posted their interest in killing Tormax tonight. Why don't we all just chill and see what their plans are, eh?

[Baramos1]

No, I got your point precisely, Andaas.

My point above is, let's not be stupid, hey?

Let's be smart. Let's be logical. Let's be fair.

If we all want to abide the letter of the guidelines, I'm happy to pass on Tormax tonight, and put ML back to the front of the Yelinak list.

I'd just as soon we start paying attention to what's right, instead of perching like vultures on "what the other guy is doing or killling".

Bara

[Sirensa]

People were hollering on this board awhile back about "the letter of the law" and being "flexible".

Time to put your money where your mouth is.

I am all for being civilized. However - I feel that needs to start with ML. You're policing of the server and spawns has got to let up.

Just last night, at 8 pacific I had Roh telling me Zland had spawned, which is great. We had traded with IG, posted in advance, for all to see. She tells me that IG doesnt have sufficient force to kill him that moment and so pass, which makes it Hoss' turn again. We all know that is unfair. She relented and it appears IG will get their chance tonight, but what exactly was the point in trying to declare them as passing with a late spawn and such little notice?

It's the same situation as Monday night with Dain. Roh clearly does not understand that Hoss would like to be CONSULTED before being informed we have passed. It is courteous.

Other guilds besides ML are capable of knowing when something spawns and who is up. We do not need ML reps breathing down our backs, telling us that we pass if we have not started an effort in what ML considers an appropriate time. It's hard not to react harshly to you guys when you are constantly watching us to make sure we are behaving.

You've got to let up. This policing of the server bullshit needs to end. Had you not been pressing us so hard lately, do you really think we'd give a rat's ass about what happens to Tormax when we are in NToV? Not like it matters to Hoss.

[Andaas]

Oh and for the record, I checked the Zlandicar spawn before logging into NToV last night (around 5:30-6:00), and he was not up yet.

We had all agreed ages ago that a spawn that happened after 6:00 pm pacific would allow for a guild to try the next day if necessary, due to time restraints, etc. Of course, this was long before Rohaise was involved in the IGB, but I'm sure Quintall and Selice will confirm that.

[Baramos1]

Sirensa -

Mythic Legion has a vested interest in making sure that the spawns go down quickly, and efficiently.

I'm not interested in letting any spawn pass even one day past when it pops.

We have 100 people in Mythic we need to outfit in one way or another, and the whole idea of rotations, and the 24 hour rule is to ensure timely killing of spawns, and an agreeable arrangement between all the guilds.

Since other guilds have shown in the past that they aren't even aware when certain MOBS have popped, we take it upon ourselves to keep an eye out, and to notify the IGB when they have spawned.

Yes, this may seem to be nitpicking, but it is a necessary nitpick in the opinion of ML, to ensure that we keep things moving at a brisk pace in a game that already creates far too much waiting.

No one's trying to breathe down your neck, Sirensa. No one's trying to aggravate you, even if that's what you may think.

In my opinion, the "policing" of spawns as you put it, is actually a service to the entire community.

Baramos

[Andaas]

Polite reminders is one thing, but lately it has seemed that Rohaise specifically has been trying to force the rotation along when it shouldn't be.

This again goes back to Dain on Monday, for passing along a rumor that Hoss was passing along to Vindication. Yes, everything worked out in the end, including pissing off Hoss by passing along an unfounded rumor.

Also to yesterday on Zlandicar, again, things have been settled, however, Rohaise tried to force 2 passes for no justifiable reason.

Baramos, this is what we are talking about. Posting here when something spawns or sending a tell to the guild that is up for it is fine. But the attempts at knocking others off a rotation spot is bullshit and needs to stop.

[Ciner]

Just woke up, looks like we will be trying Tormax again tonight by IRC topic.

I do think Andaas is correct though, prior to ML asking in rotation an agreement was made saying we would kill Tormax the 24th, there was no passings involved, the two guilds involved in killing Tormax did it quite relaxed like.

As Hoss and us were the only guilds in the rotation at the time of the decision, what we had agree'd upon should be absolute.

Which would make the timeline

21st I speak to Sirensa, saying Klan/Lend are also due up the 22nd, will not have time for Tormax the 22nd, but also need to kill warders the 23rd so mind if we take our turn the 24th? Sirensa says np Hoss will be in NToV can take the whole week.

22nd Hoss kills tormax

22nd (Isn't posted here till 24th -- IE. Vindication didnt know ML wanted on rotation till the 24th) ML asks in rotation, after the deal was set, between, at the time the only two guilds in rotation

24th Vindi attempts, fails

25th Hoss is up, passes

25th Vindi is up

Then ML is up.

I dont consider it rude. I just consider it how things are, when guilds join rotations, must remember that they were not involved previously and would not be privy to any agreements. I fail to see why ML can not wait a week max, a day minimum, to keep the IGB rules solid.

[Baramos1]

I'm behind Rohaise 100%.

I don't think she did one thing wrong by telling so-and-so in Vind that our guildsay had a rumor you guys were passsing. Vind has big boys and girls, and they did the proper verification, notification. Seriously don't know wtf your problem in Hoss is, there, with that. Seems a knee-jerk to Roh, honestly.

"Did you HEAR what that bitch ROH did?"

"OMG no.. what did she DO!"

"She told Vind there was a rumor that we might be passing on Dain!!!"

"OMFG THAT FUCKING ZERG BITCH !!"

bleh - gay

On the "forcing a pass" I don't think she was trying to do that, but just trying to be efficient.

However, I also know that Roh's enthusiasm can be interpreted as prickly, so I'll try and see to it that someone else deals with Hoss about spawns that are up, in the future.

Sirensa has been extremely friendly in tells with me lately. I happen to know she's warming to me! So maybe I'll work issues with her.

Etc.

Let's keep trying to work things out, and have fun.

Only problem I see on the horizon right now is this NToV rottage stuff. If we can get past that, and be fair without a whole contract of rules to abide by, we're making true progress.

Baramos

[Baramos1]

Ok, in order to keep the IGB rules solid, ML is bumping back Hoss and Vind in the Yelinak rotation, to reflect the letter of the law.

kk thx~

Baramos

[Andaas]

Originally posted by Baramos1
On the "forcing a pass" I don't think she was trying to do that, but just trying to be efficient.

If finding Zlandicar up at 8:00 pm pacific, determining that IG didn't have sufficient force online to kill him, and then contacting Hoss to confirm that we were now passing, is not attempting to "force a pass", I don't know what is.

[Ciner]

K Bara, taking your post to mean the Tormax issue is concluded.

Vindi up tonight
ML up next spawn

Thanks.

[Wyvern]

Vindication posted its Yelinak intent in accordance to the guidelines of the "Unrotated Ubers" post. Being that there was no legitimized rotation on Yelinak, being able to bump guilds off to get another kill before the formal rotation begins is irrelevant.

Also in accordance to the Unrotated Ubers post is the 24 hour respawn rule. Which states that upon respawn, a guild cannot attempt a consecutive kill for 24 hours if there are other parties interested in said mob. And since Yelinak was not on rotation, this applies.

Vindication and Hoss both applied for Yelinak per this agreement before a rotation was created, lmalla after.

Thus, the Yelinak rotation is: Vindication ( ), Hoss ( ), ML (10/23), L`malla.

[Sirensa]

Originally posted by Baramos1
Ok, in order to keep the IGB rules solid, ML is bumping back Hoss and Vind in the Yelinak rotation, to reflect the letter of the law.

ok. Add us where ever fair is.


Sirensa has been extremely friendly in tells with me lately. I happen to know she's warming to me! So maybe I'll work issues with her.
LIES =/ I hate you! Grrr.

[Rohaise]

Wyvern, if Yelinak was not a rotation mob, those sub-rules for *non-rotation* mobs might have some weight.

However, with 4 guilds now asking for a rotation, I think that prety clearly defines him to be a rotation mob, and he now becomes covered with the rotation rules:



I. Adding a New rotation:

a. New Mobs: The guild or guilds that have solely been accomplishing a mob will start out the rotation. As each new guild decides to try thier hand at the mob, thier name is added with a "join date". The new Joiner is added in the spot of the current rotation but must wait one full rotation before being "up" for the spawn.

The non-rotated ubers "rules" were defined to cover anything that did not fit a rotation.

Yelinak, clearly, does fit a rotation.

[Baramos1]

That's BS Wyvern. You can't post intent on a mob that hasn't popped yet. Therefore you're asking for a rotation.

You guys want into a rotation. You're getting into it on the letter of the rules. Just like everyone else is.

ML's going first. I'm not going to argue about this.

You want to play games with rules on Tormax, now you can eat 'em.

Baramos

[Ciner]

Tormax was being rotated between two guilds. Yel was on no rotation, thus there are rules that must be upheld reguarding unrotated ubers.

At the time of our request to kill Yel, no rotation was present.

[Wyvern]

"If you are interested in fighting one of these mobs, this is the place to post intentions. Do not post intentions if you cannot follow through, or give timely notice if your plans change (ie, >24 hours). "

Sounds to me like that was the appropriate thread to post Yelinak intentions on.

Please elaborate on where the letter of the rules has been broken.

[Baramos1]

At the time of your request to kill Yelinak, he wasn't up.

Since then, there is a clear need for a rotation.

We're gonna go by the exact letter of the law for the rotation.

ML is going to be prepping to kill Yelinak, the very next time he pops.

I hope that's clear enough. There will be no backing down by us on this at all.

ML gave Vindication a chance to be reasonable. This is the second time they've decided to throw that gift back in ML's faces.

From this point on, ML will deal with Vindication precisely, exactly, according to the established rules on the IGB.

Any breach of those rules will be regarded by ML as an FFA event.

Baramos

[Baramos1]

Wyvern - what that means is that if the mob has popped, and you were saying you were gonna kill him, then kill him. If your plans change, let us know before the time period alotted for a kill (24 hours) has elapsed.

[Andaas]

The only thing I find odd is that I requested that ST warders be downgraded from a rotation spawn to an unrotated spawn 3 or 4 times at least, and it never happened.

Baramos requests once for Yelinak to be moved to the rotation list and it happens.

I guess Quintall doesn't lub me. :(

Seriously though, I think that there should be an agreement by at least 2 guilds before any mob is moved from one list to another. Since only Hoss requested warders moved to unrotated list, and ML didn't concur, they remained rotated. Since only ML requested Yelinak to be moved to rotation, we should get agreement from others before that move happens. Perhaps Hoss/Vindication don't have the intention to kill Yelinak on every cycle.

[Wyvern]

I dont see where it says on teh unrotated ubers post that the mob must be up, in fact, the word "intentions" implies something you plan on doing in the future.

several issues:

Are you now setting the rules according to your interpretation of them? Baramos you seem quite adamant in this and because of that, "ML is going to be prepping to kill Yelinak the very next time he pops. There will be no backing down by us on this at all."

Next, if Yelinak is as you say designated to become a rotation mob during a lapse of his being up, why does ML automatically get first crack? Seems to me all the other orders have been organized in order of posting, why are you attempting something different here?

"From this point on, ML will deal with Vindication precisely, exactly, according to the established rules on the IGB."

So these are then the rules according to your own interpretation?

[Baramos1]

Different story entirely, Andaas. You guys asked for a rotation, then squealed when it didn't suit your schedule. During this time, ML was still pissed about your blatant KS's of us at Kland, your stonewalling (with Vind) of ML during the May-June timeframe, and your guild's blatant theft of Ragefire from Vickausia (who'd been camping 80 hours, and all your stupid little excuses thereof. =)

So, after you asked for a rotation, you got it, brother. Full force.

If you'd relented during the 2 months of Klandicar rotations where you kept saying "oopsy pass", instead of being a man and saying you know, take us off that rotation, I'd have been more amenable to an ST change-of-behavior.

Fact is, you guys were still coming in to ST and killing.

There was NO ONE killing Kland but ML until last week.

You played your little game, and we played ours.

Cooperation, and reason is a two-way street.

Cooperation and reason can still be in our future.

Baramos

[Quintall_ML]

The very first time Yelinak was rotated, Vindication had killed him, then ML asked for rotation as we knew we would be killing him.

Vind insisted that the letter of the rotation rules showed they wuld get first kill on the rotation, then ML (in a nutshell). And that's exactly how it was done, and has been followed since then.

Your rules, your interpretation (well, was before your time Wyvern).

[Baramos1]

Not my interpretation Wyvern.

THE interpretation.

Vindication used that gay-ass rule on us right when we started rotations on Yelinak.

Now you get it back in spades. Fun, huh !

Earlier in this thread, I made an appeal to reason, an appeal to what's fair.

You guys shot it down, and now you can live with it.

Bara

[Ciner]

We are following the rules to the T.

While I see you, Bara, trying to surmise what the rules mean in your own words.

As Quint said, he is correct, we made ML wait a rotation. Why you ask? Because there was no Unrotated Ubers section at that time, nor any rules reguarding the section.

As Wyvern said, even if Yel was legitly moved to Rotated. The schedule should be in order of posting, IE. Vindi > Hoss > ML > L`malla.

As Andaas said, he was never even legitly moved to the Rotated Mobs section as only one guild requested it done.

So if he was legitly moved to Rotated, Vindi should be up.

If he wasnt legitly moved and is still Unrotated, Vindi should be up.

Explain how that contradicts any rule in exsistace on this board please, then rethink who is going FFA on who.

[Rohaise]

Wyvern wrote:


Next, if Yelinak is as you say designated to become a rotation mob during a lapse of his being up, why does ML automatically get first crack?

Because that's what the official IGB Rotation Guidelines (that I have already quoted twice in this thread) specifically state.

Here, I'll fill in the blanks this time:

I. Adding a New rotation:

a. New Mobs: The guild (Mythic Legion) or guilds that have solely been accomplishing a mob (Yelinak) will start out the rotation. As each new guild(Vindication, Hoss, L`Malla) decides to try thier hand at the mob, thier name is added with a "join date". The new Joiner is added in the spot of the current rotation but must wait one full rotation before being "up" for the spawn.

[Wyvern]

I'm sorry, I dont see that rule listed on the current forum, perhaps you should take it up with the representatives of that time?

"(well, was before your time Wyvern)."

Please, don't make me laugh.

[Andaas]

Originally posted by Baramos1
So, after you asked for a rotation, you got it, brother. Full force.

That was well and fine Baramos. However, after Hoss passed on ST warders what, 3 or 4 times straight, the spawn was ready to be downgraded to unrotated, even without my asking. This still never happened. There are 3 guilds on warders now, so their being on a rotation is fine.

However, this is all besides the point. I am proposing that for future spawns to move from one list to another that it takes the agreement of at least 2 guilds.

This may not apply to Yelinak, since I could care less about the orders on it - however, this is something we should set a standard for now, since it may happen again.

[Quintall_ML]

The standard was set, the rule was created from it, as shown by Roh Wyvern.

You weren't posting here at that time, so ya, it was 'before your time'.

[Ciner]

I understand the Rotated Ubers rules Roh.

What I do not understand is why you are quoting them to me when infact, we posted our intentions when he was an Unrotated Uber, in accordance with the rules set forth for Unrotated Ubers.

Then, as Andaas has sited was moved to Rotated Ubers without proper clearance to do so.

[Baramos1]

The same can be said true of Klandicar, right Andaas? That is to say, after several passes by one guild, the only honorable thing to do is to remove it from rotation.

And no, since there is precedent for "2 guild rotations", then any spawn that has 2 guilds or more vying for it should be in a rotation.


Baramos

[Rohaise]

Oh yeah, forgot about this.

This is Section 1.b. of the Rotation Guideline.

This should also answer Wyvern and Ciner's questions:



b. Old Mobs: When postings for a mob (Yelinak) become out of control (ie - booked for a month of spawns), or otherwise appear to be greatly "wanted", the mob can be placed on the rotation schedule. The guild who last killed the mob (Mythic Legion) goes first with the date of last kill, followed by the rest of the IGB members who are interested in no particular order.

[Ciner]

It can be. But, I see now where that it says the guild that decides weither it is moved or not is Mythic Legion. Perhaps you should make a clause? :cool:

In this case, where neither Hoss nor Vindication has stated they would be killing Yel reguarly, I see no validity why it would be moved or was moved to Rotated Ubers without asking the others involved.

That decision was made by ML alone with no authority to do so, infact it was done in spite of a past occurance where Andaas said one thing, ML said another and the mob was not moved.

So citing past experience, would think the majority of the guilds asking to kill would need to okay the move from Unrotated to Rotated. ML says ok, Vindi says no. Mob isnt moved at the molment.

What does Hoss say?

[Andaas]

I don't see how postings for Yelinak have become out of control.

Hoss attempted Yelinak a few weeks ago for kicks, and was planning on heading back in to kill him based on being an unrotated spawn. We would take our turn when the time came, no worries on when that was.

When I saw Vindication request the next spawn, I felt it proper to state that Hoss wanted to give a go when the time came.

I forsee Yelinak as a spawn that Hoss will likely not hold a heavy rotation on killing (ie, if it were on a rotation, we would probably notify this forum of passes more often than not on the day of the respawn, so as not to stall it).

[Rohaise]

Ciner wrote:


I see now where that it says the guild that decides weither it is moved or not is Mythic Legion. Perhaps you should make a clause?

The Guideline states: "or otherwise appear to be greatly "wanted""

I think it's quite obvious that when four guilds want to kill a mob with a one week spawn, it then satisfies the condition of "greatly wanted".

If you don't agree with that I'd like some of what you're smoking.

Mythic Legion
Vindication
Hoss
L`Malla

All want to kill this mob. If that doesn't make it a candidate for rotation, I don't know what else does.

[Baramos1]

No "clearance" was needed by anyone Ciner. Read the rules for crying out loud.

It was obvious to any clear-thinking person that a rotation was in order. (Vind - I'm taking next Yel. Hoss - We're taking the one after that !) The mob is "greatly wanted", yeah. The mob is clearly a rotation mob.

Listen. We tried to be reasonable about this. We've tried being reasonable about NToV (sure guys - have fun.. go for it), and about Ragefire (sure bro - we don't want you to get hosed - this what happened? ok bro - hop in).

With Yelinak, we put ML at the back of the list initially, thinking specifically about Vind.

We asked for some reasonable behavior in return.

You guys said no.

Now, we're saying no.

If you guys want to continue thumping your chests, and telling your buds in your guild what badasses you are on the IGB, go ahead and play that game. But it's going to just make it tougher on every other single person here.

Show a little reason, a little flexibility, and you'll be shown the same regard by ML.

Baramos

[Ciner]

Yes the mob is wanted, but nowhere does anyone say it is wanted regularly... thus justifying the need for a Rotation Schedule.

As Hoss has said, they will more than likely be only taking one here and there.

Vindi is also heavy in the rotation schedules and will probably be doing the same.

This mob should not have and cannot have been moved to Rotation Schedule without the majority of the guilds involved in the matter agreeing to do so... That from citing past experience where Hoss requested warders moved, ML did not. Mob was not moved.

[Andaas]

Like I said, I could care less who kills Yelinak and when.

I do want to create some standard for moving spawns from one list to another though. Its something that needs to be done for the future (there *will* be things that are going to be unrotated in Luclin for awhile).

So, as I stated earlier, I propose that from this point forward, it requires the agreement of at least 2 guilds to get a spawn moved from one list to another. Can we all agree or disagree to this?

Let me reiterate again: THIS DOESN'T APPLY TO YELINAK THIS TIME. This is to keep this argument from happening in the future.

[Wyvern]

So if it doesn't apply to Yelinak this time, what does?

[Rohaise]

but nowhere does anyone say it is wanted regularly

Er, ML kills Yelinak every spawn day without fail. That's not regularly, how?


That from citing past experience where Hoss requested warders moved, ML did not. Mob was not moved.

The mob was not moved, but ML specifically told Hoss that we would relax the rotation and let the dragons stay up for several days if necessary so that Hoss could kill them on a weekend, which was the only day they had enough people on according to Ciner.

Mythic Legion was more than fair in that case.

Also, in that case ML was killing ST warders every spawn day without fail as well.

Again, if one guild wants a mob regularly, and other guilds want it as well, then it's obviously a rotation mob. If other guilds decide they don't want to kill it every single spawn, they can certainly "pass". That's why passing is acceptable.

[Ciner]

Of course Andaas, dont see why one guild would make the decisions on weither a mob moves or not...

Which ML seems to think is there privilage..examples..

1)Not moving ST when Andaas requested so.

2)Now moving Yel because they wanted it so.

[Rohaise]

Wyvern wrote:


So if it doesn't apply to Yelinak this time, what does?

A strict interpretation of the IGB Guidelines, specifically rules 1.a and 1.b.

[Rohaise]

In response to Andaas -

The solution is very simple.

A mob belongs on the rotation list when the following happen:

1) A guild is killing that mob regularly, AND

2) Another guild determines that they want to kill it.

There is no "voting", it's just a simple function of logic. And it's beyond common sense. If one guild wants to kill it every time all the time, and another guild enters the picture, then making it a rotation mob is the only fair way to go about it.

[Ciner]

I'm willing to yeild and let ML have Yel first, but you folks need to realize you do not run the Rotation Schedule.

As such you should not be moving things without others agreements.

Some of us do the same shit you folks do just with half the numbers, so would be nice for you folks to look around and realize you dont run this board... and what you say isnt the end of the issue...

We could do without statements like "ML is taking Yel no ifs ands or buts."

[Ciner]

I disagree, I think Andaas's suggestion is quite reasonable. If its "beyond logic" then I'm sure all the guilds will agree and the Uber can be moved.

[Andaas]

You're interpretation is one view Rohaise, however, if you look at the rules defined for the unrotated uber list you will note the following:


If you are interested in fighting one of these mobs, this is the place to post intentions. Do not post intentions if you cannot follow through, or give timely notice if your plans change (ie, >24 hours).

This means that a guild can post their advance intentions to kill a spawn (before it spawns, duh). Vindication did this, and Hoss chose to do the same. Yelinak was then moved to the rotation list per Baramos' request due to thinking that a full rotation was needed, when it seems from comments from both Vindication and Hoss, that it may not have been.


For mobs that we all agree should be handled in this fashion, whichever guild was last to kill the specified mob give a 24 hour time frame upon respawn for others to make an attempt (not 24 hours per guild, just a single 24 hour period).

This 24 hour period can be waived if the repeating guild confirms with other proven capable guilds that they are not interested in the spawn on respawn day.

After 24 hours, the repeating guild can have there way with the mob.


Rohaise posted:
Er, ML kills Yelinak every spawn day without fail. That's not regularly, how?

You have not been following the rules. Were you checking with other capable guilds before killing Yelinak again within 24 hours of his spawn? No? OMG, bad kitty.

Vindication has proven capable of killing Yelinak, as such, should have been contacted per the above rule.
_______________________

FYI, these rules are being posted to be as "strict" as ML is trying to be. There are rules that were created on the unrotated uber list that the rotated list rules were not adjusted for.

This is why I have proposed we make a bridge in the rules between the two lists, since it is something that needs to be done.

Please take the above post over rules with a grain of salt... it was just an example, heh.

[Rohaise]

Voting is not reasonable. People will vote for whatever helps them at that moment in time rather than voting for the big picture.

In this case we now have 4 guilds wanting Yelinak, and the "votes" are that it should remain un-rotated.

Do you really, *really*, think Yelinak should be an unrotated mob?

If so, what will it take to make you change your mind?

[Andaas]

Originally posted by Rohaise
Do you really, *really*, think Yelinak should be an unrotated mob?

Me personally? Yes.

Why you ask?

Well, Yelinak really doesn't drop anything that great. The only reason I see to kill him is for the ST key. Thats right, Yelinak is an ST key dragon, lol.

[Rohaise]

Vindication has proven capable of killing Yelinak, as such, should have been contacted per the above rule.

Actually, no they haven't.

Yelinak is in no way the same mob they killed in the past (what, 2 or 3 months ago?)

ML is still the only guild who has proven they can kill Yelinak v3.0.


Please take the above post over rules with a grain of salt... it was just an example, heh.

If you are going to use such a pointed example, pick one that can be taken with more than a few grains then.

[Baramos1]

Andaas -

Posting intentions was on the day the MOB popped.

The way that rule works is that Sont pops, some guild is supposed to say hey, I want Sont.

Then, they have 24 hours to kill the MOB.

If they decide their schedule changes, then they are requested to give timely notice (so > 24 hours doesn't elapse - 24 hours being the required amount of time allowed to kill the MOB in the first place.

The idea was NOT to get into putting "dibs" on a non-rotation MOB, because that makes it by definintion, a rotation MOB.

Bara

[Ciner]

Pretty sure we've both covered why we dont think Yel should be rotated...

We...dont...intend...to...kill...him...every...tur n.

We were going to take token Yel's here and there when time ect... now this huge mess we may end up taking Yel's regularly.

[Wyvern]

I have always regarding the Unrotated Ubers post as an advance warning system for mobs which arent regularly rotated.

What happens when two guilds post for the same Sont, after he has spawned, and neither of them were the last to kill it?

Posting intentions does not designate something as a rotation, all it means is that there are stipulations before someone can wax the same mob twice in a row.

[Andaas]

I agree with Wyvern here. The posting of intentions on the unrotated list was always intended to be ADVANCE notice. How the hell is someone supposed to a) know that their spawn is up (ie, Sontalak), and b) gather the necessary forces in a short timespan given to point a?

Posting intentions means that you want to kill something next time its around, nothing more.

Both Hoss and Vindication have now stated that we DON'T want to kill every Yelinak we can get our hands on. This should 100% justify that Yelinak should REMAIN an unrotated spawn.

Baramos, Rohaise, please listen. Vindication wants to kill Yelinak next spawn, Hoss the spawn after... ML can have their way with Yelinak for weeks after that with no interference. What is the problem?

Oh, I know what the problem is. ML can't deal with the fact that Vindication made arrangements with Hoss to let Tormax stand for 1 night. And ML is obviously still holding a grudge over both of us over incidents that happened half a year ago.

Anyway, why don't we do this:

1) Move Yelinak back to the unrotated list.

2) Let Vindication kill him next.

3) Let ML kill him after.

4) Let Hoss take him after that.

Is that ok for everyone?

Oh and btw Roh, Hoss has attempted Yelinak 3.0, got him to enrage on our first ever Yelinak attempt with about 36 people. Sure, we didn't finish the job that night, but I don't forsee a problem dropping him. Vindication has yet to attempt him, but I'm sure they will have no issues with that fight either.

[Baramos1]

Andaas -

You're remembering incorrectly. Also, 24 hours is plenty of time to garner the forces for a non-rotated uber MOB.

This is what we discussed.

The intent to kill is to be posted when the MOB pops, as I listed above.

Now, there is obviously plenty of interest in Yelinak to make him a rotation MOB. 4 guilds in fact. This, by the letter of the rules, which Ciner asked to be adhered directly to, is what has happened.

And, in this case, since our appeal to reason was denied, ML intends to exactly follow the rules.

Baramos

[Ciner]

Heh, we wern't even trying to be ass's about the deal with Hoss, but a deal had been arranged and I had informed my guild about it already. So couldnt exactly say ok things changed now.

You guys took it personally and now want this Yel rotation which in the end will probably equal less Yels for ML than if it had remained Unrotated.

Dunno just seems like the ML reps get hot headed hella fast. Especially when you've been left alone with Yel for like two months...

[Baramos1]

BTW Andaas, to speak to your problem with a "grudge".

A grudge exists because of a pattern of behavior. Grudges don't easily fall away, and they never fall away by mere words. It takes actions. Your actions led to a grudge against Hoss by ML, and only actions can undo it. Reasonable actions.

Now, ML feels that it has been more than reasonable.

We put ourselves in the back of the rotation first, you recall.

We were very relaxed about the NToV business, with both Hoss and Vindication. We've been agreeable, in general. We posted our intentions to give some latitude to Hoss on ST Warders.

However, we're not going to sit by and have our good intentions swallowed and not acknowledged.

Vindication has shown by word and deed that they are oblivious to attempts at good relations, so far. That being the case, we only have one recourse - and that's to live by the rules of the IGB, which is precisely what we're doing.

Baramos

[Wyvern]

The issue of Yelinak is forgone in my mind now, as ML has declared that they will be taking it no matter what.

"The intent to kill is to be posted when the MOB pops, as I listed above. "

This is not written anywhere except in your posts.

[Wyvern]

Vindication has shown by word and deed that they are oblivious to attempts at good relations
It would seem that the enforcer style tactics you employ on the forum are to blame with this, do you see Hoss and Vindication at each others throats presently? No, the reason for that being that we are fine with giving each other leeway. Perhaps you should consider why relations are always different in the direction of sour with ML.


We were very relaxed about the NToV business, with both Hoss and Vindication
As I recall, the latest situation dealt with only Hoss and Vindication, why were you in a position to be unrelaxed? Every other Ntov situation that has arrisen has dealt with how to give ML space so they could learn the section of the zone.

[Ciner]

Bara I dont know if your blind to your own members or what.

But Roh is pushing every single person left and right on almost every damn spawn.

Then you expect us to be so very kind and respectful of ML's obviously "good intentions" when the time comes. Instead of remembering what a bitch Roh was about nearly every mob that pop'd?

Wyvs dead fucking on, Hoss and us had a huge falling out awhile ago, yet you dont see us at each others throats at all. We are pretty respectful of each other and give each other what we need.

Ever wonder why ML is always having trouble with Hoss and Vindi? Maybe because these "good intentions" you see so clearly are highly invisible to us.

[Andaas]

Baramos, you do not understand the intention of the unrotated list at all.

Yes, 24 hours is sufficient time to garner forces to kill a spawn. However.... that same 24 hours is the space alloted for the previous killing guild to leave another guild to kill something.

You seem to have pulled the intentions posted only when the mob has spawned thing out of thin air, as it isn't and has never been posted or stated anyplace until today.

Without advance posting for something on that list it would not work, period.

Here are some examples from the archives:


Yendii posted on September 27, 2001 10:26 PM
Sontalak

Would like a shot at Sont next time he pops in WW.


Quintall posted on September 18, 2001 10:44 AM

ML will be starting into N ToV 10/5, and likely be there all weekend to do the crawl.


Andaas posted on September 21, 2001 12:18 AM

Hoss is planning on hitting the Statue Friday night.


Lorenia posted on September 23, 2001 11:47 AM

Vindication wants a shot at sont next time hes up, also if nobody is looking at yelinak yet we'd like a shot at him when he spawns again.

As you can see, people have been posting advance intentions on mobs based on speculated respawn since the list started.

[Rohaise]

But Roh is pushing every single person left and right on almost every damn spawn.

Then you expect us to be so very kind and respectful of ML's obviously "good intentions" when the time comes. Instead of remembering what a bitch Roh was about nearly every mob that pop'd?

Enh? What does being proactive about spawn notifications have to do with not respecting our good intentions?

Maybe you consider my tells of "hey, mobx is up" to be pushy. I consider them necessary to keep the rotations flowing without stalling out.

My only goal is to expedite the killing of these mobs whenever possible. With 8 guilds on rotation in some cases, it only benefits everyone that they be knocked out as fast as possible.

I don't know about your guilds, but every night ML kills everything we can get our hands on, and that the rotation allows, and we end up logging hoping there was more to do.

Maybe you all get tired after one or two ubers, but ML could go all night.

So pardon me if I end up being the "spawn police", and inform you when mobs pop. I'm just trying to ensure they don't sit around and rot when someone could be having fun killing them.

It's not fun at all to have 70 people sitting around with nothing to kill, and knowing there's some dragon up somewhere that we can't kill because some other guild didn't have the courtesy to pass before wasting a day.

[Baramos1]

Wyvern -

What you see as "enforcer tactics" is our way of making sure you don't pull any bullshit on us. We're living by the rules, and you call it enforcer tactics? Get real, pal. And you're blaming the IGB for the fact that you guys behave like dickheads in general? Take a look at that POS webpage of yours brutha. Then tell me some more fairytales about how you want to engender good relations between ML and Vind. You want some leeway? Give some leeway. Simple enough equation.

And yeah, the fact you didn't see that ML was being generous about NToV is another example of your blindness.

ML could have said "hey, 7 days like everyone else. GTFO. We want some of those spawns." We haven't determined how we're gonna do "spawn rot protection" yet, so there is any number of things we could have thrown up to impede you folks. Sure, it was our business, because there are no clear rules there yet. You guys asked for an accomodation and got it, no sweat. We didn't make a peep until you acted like it was due you by grand design.

My point here is that we have a preconception of Vindication as juvenile asses, and you haven't made it any better with your work on this board, so far.

Bara

[Rohaise]

Andaas wrote:


Baramos, Rohaise, please listen. Vindication wants to kill Yelinak next spawn, Hoss the spawn after... ML can have their way with Yelinak for weeks after that with no interference. What is the problem?

You are obviously (still) forgetting that L`Malla asked to kill Yelinak, too.

Go back and read all my posts arguing for a rotation of this mob, then add in your forgotten memory of L`Malla, and then let me know if you still think it should be unrotated.

Not if "Hoss thinks". If "you think" as an impartial observer.

[Baramos1]

Andaas -

I perfectly understand the unrotated list.

Quintall posted intentions not as part of a recognized non-rotation uber, but as a heads up.

I did see people post for Sont and other things, and even knowing that they shouldn't be, decided not to "make waves".

Strictly speaking, by the understanding at the time the rule was written, MOBs are called on pops for unrotated.

Bara

[Sirensa]

Hrm.

Damn I leave for an hour and look at the mess you all made.

My comments - take them as you will:

1. Yelinak should be rotated.

Sure some guilds will pass more than not, but wtf, who cares. Yel was unrotated, ML killed the 23rd, Vindication asked for next, ML acknowledged, Hoss asked for one after, it's suggested to rotate. L'Malla asks to be added.

Logical rotation fairness to me would be: Vind, Hoss, ML, L'Malla

Because.. he was unrotated until after Vind and Hoss posted intentions, put on rotation before L'Malla asked, so ML should get another turn prior to L'Malla getting a shot.

2. Tormax - different situation as it was already being rotated.

Hoss cut Vind some slack because it was just us two. Yay playing nice.

3. ST warders - different situation as they are already being rotated.

ML has been willing to cut Hoss some slack because we really don't take our turn and they are playing nice. Yay playing nice.

=========================

*laughs at Baramos for being a posting Enthusiast now*

*passes around free Advil or Cocktails - take your pick*

You guys posted so much I am not sure if my point is even valid anymore of not!

=========================

OH YEAH I REMEMBERED MY OTHER POINT!!!

When ST warders were on unrotated uber list and Hoss posted intentions within 24 hours of them spawning that we would be heading in that coming weeekend, ML followed up with a post that they already had plans to take them out the next night. Being annoyed that our posted intentions were not going to get us our chance when we wanted it, I asked for ST warders to be formally rotated, course that fucked us out from being able to take them on weekends, which works better for us, but it seemed the right thing to do when a spawn is contested.

Yelinak is being contested. Seems the right thing to do is rotate him, whether everyone always takes their turn or not.

[Wyvern]

you're blaming the IGB for the fact that you guys behave like dickheads in general?
Sorry if you can't handle it, maybe you should try harder.


tell me some more fairytales about how you want to engender good relations between ML and Vind
So sorry, but we've never made any effort to get huggy kissy with ML, and at least we dont create the fact that we do to create an impetus for rambling bullshit like you do.


GTFO. We want some of those spawns
They would have been Hoss' spawns tough guy.


My point here is that we have a preconception of Vindication as juvenile asses

I'm happy for you, please feel comforted that you still fit the conception of unskilled, belligerent zerg guild to the letter. This shit with ML goes back to fennin ro, when you guys would try to race us to Nagafen spawns and then whine when we killed Vox all the time. Same shit different story.

[Sows McBuff]

so, uh....is severilous up? :P

[Baramos1]

Proved my point.

kk thx~ la~~

Have fun at Tormax tonight.

Bro.

Hey, how's Cinder?

*chuckle*

Baramos

[Rohaise]

*WARNING - PUSHY BITCH POST INCOMING!*


Dain Frostreaver IV is up.

Dain - ML (10/20), Hoss (T-Vind), Vind (T-Hoss 10/22), L`Malla (F-10/19)


No idea what that rotation list means, looks like Hoss is up? Or L`Malla? Not really sure.

[Wyvern]

So when is the ML roster coming up Baramos? Or are you having trouble finding a server large enough to hold that kind of file.

[Baramos1]

I love a large, extended family!

In fact, we're recruiting now !

Cheer us on!

Bara

[Rohaise]

Alright, Dlgoth helped me to understand the cryptic codes.

10/19 L`Malla (F)
10/20 ML
10/22 Hoss traded with Vindication
10/22 Vindication killed
10/25 - Hoss up!

[Wyvern]

go team!

[Sirensa]

Originally posted by Rohaise

Dain Frostreaver IV is up.

Dain - ML (10/20), Hoss (T-Vind), Vind (T-Hoss 10/22), L`Malla (F-10/19)


Hoss is still in NToV tonight. We cannot make it to Dain. Good luck L'Malla.

[Ubar]

Not even worth it, like pounding your head against a wall trying to explain some stuff.

[Shik]

Originally posted by Quintall_ML
Your rules, your interpretation (well, was before your time Wyvern).

Quint go back to the ebay trash pile you came from, your just another ling for the zerg who wouldnt have aa clue about history, keep it real cracker.

ML maybe you could like get another few hundred people to damge shield up and /q in brahs, good shit!

[Wyvern]

Tormax dead, 10/25

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

so uh, since Dain was kinda sprung on us, and by the time we got a chance to think about him, we didnt have the peeps (425 Dain), any chance we can wack him tomorrow? Dont think we sued our monthly pass yet, and well, month is about up ;)


*ducks the incoming flames*

[Ciner]

Course, can use pass dl...

Statue dead also.