Rotation Schedule

[Quintall_ML]

Trak - Hoss (P1-10/23), NI (10/23), Vind (added 10/27), L`Malla (10/27), VE (F1-10/29), GAP (10/13), ML (10/16), IG (10/20)

Sev - IG (T-Hoss 9/24), L`Malla(10/11), TR (added 10/26), NI (T - GAP), GAP (T-NI 10/27), Vindi (T - CN 9/13), Hoss (T-IG), VE (T-GAP)

Ragefire {Naggy Due 10/31} - ML (10/24), TV (added 10/25), GAP (10/12 out of turn), Hoss(T - 9/6 ), VE (9/9), NI (9/12), L`Malla (T - VH 9/14), Vind (Missed turn, up next), IG (10/20), TR (10/22)

CT - Hoss (T-L`Malla 10/28), L`Malla (T-Hoss 10/23), Vind (T-ML), ML (T-Vind 10/30)

Dain - ML (10/20), Hoss (T-Vind P1-10/25), Vind (T-Hoss 10/22), L`Malla (10/26)

Tormax - Vindi (10/25), ML (), Hoss (P1-10/25)

Statue - L`Malla (10/29), Hoss, Vindication (10/25)

Dozekar - Hoss (10/16), IG (F - 10/15), Vind (10/27)

Lend - Vindi (10/22), Hoss (10/23), L'Malla (10/30) ML (10/15)

Zland - Hoss (T-IG 10/26), IG (T-Hoss F1-10/25), L`Malla (T-Vind), Vind (T-L`Malla 10/27), ML (10/16)

Klandicar - Hoss (T-ML F1-10/28), ML (T-Hoss 10/25), Vind (10/29), L`Malla (10/30)

Sontalak - ML (out of rotation 10/29), Vindication (10/21), L`Malla (10/25), Hoss (P1-10/28)

Yelinak - ML (F1-10/28) Vind (F1-10/29), Hoss (P1-10/30?), L`Malla ()

ST Warders - ML (T-Hoss), Vind (10/23), Hoss (T-ML 10/30)

N ToV - Hoss (10/21-10/28), L`Malla (added 10/25), ML (10/5-10/11), Vind (10/12-10/20)


You know the drill - follow with confirmed dates when mob is down
also double check to be sure you are in the rotations you want to be in

I know it is a pain sometimes - but please post a quick note when a mob is taken down by your guild so we can keep the rotation updated

There are now some (P) up there on various mobs, based on the fact they lived through the days those guilds were due for them. I'll be putting the dates with them and the F's as well.


Rotation Changes.

Added L`Malla to the Lend rotation.

Added IG to the Zlandicar rotation.

Added VE to the Trak rotation.

10/23 Added North ToV to the rotation schedule.

10/24 Added Yelinak to the rotation schedule.

10/25 Added L`Malla to Klandicar, Yelinak, NToV rotations.

10/26 Added Sontalak (pending aggreement) to the rotation schedule.

10/26 Added TR to the Sev rotation.

10/26 Added {Next Guild} to the Current Rotations list to test.

10/27 Added Vind to the Trak rotation.

Current Rotations:
Trak = GAP {ML}
Sev = NI {Vind}
Ragefire = Vind {Hoss}
CT = Vind {Hoss}
Dain = ML {Hoss}
Tormax = ML {Hoss}
Statue = Hoss {Vind}
Doze = Hoss {IG}
Lend = ML {Vind}
Zlan = L`Malla {ML}
Klan = Hoss {ML}
Sontalak = Vind {L`Malla}
Yelinak = Hoss {L`Malla}
ST = Vind {Vind}
N ToV = ML {Vind}

[Ciner]

Says Hoss is after ML in NToV, think you skipped us =\

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

We'll be hitting Kland tomorrow afternoon since well, he respawned hours after being killed today and we were tied up with vind/statue and what not...

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

Statue dead

[Quintall_ML]

So Vind killed Klan earlier in the day then?

Sont down last night.

[Quintall_ML]

Andaas pinged me last night about trading ST. Unfotunately it was a bit late for most of our ST folks to get them notice, so we'll be heading down there tonight as I let him and Wyvern, (who also pinged me to see if Hoss sent a tell), know.

Ciner sent me a tell about Yelinak not being fightable, which I'm now confused about, since reports are in that Yelinak was in his spawn location when Vind attempted him, at least for their first attempt. What was the whole story here please Ciner.

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

From my understanding, Vind killed Klandicar earlier in the evening, and he was repopped a few hours later. From some reason Vind went back to kill him again, but failed. We plan on killing him tonight per rotation..

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

Zland is currently up, and Night Kids are all in DN. They gave one of my guys the runaround for a while but claim they arn't killing him.

We'll pop him today if Night Kids leave him alone...but I'm not holding my breath. This whole thing with Waiwai/Waicry in both guilds just doesn't sit right with me..


I guess we'll just wait and see.

[Ciner]

We did finally get to try Yel, GM showed up around 11 to fix where he had been left by ML... But you were right Quint hes bugged weird wont reset. So Hoss is up today I guess.

Wondering about the 2 Sont's ML got, are you going to sit out a rotation?

And I assume ML is going into NToV today as Hoss started Sunday, even though the mobs didnt pop till today cause of patch I think we should make a rule that when the rotation time has exceeded a week people must forgo the option of waiting 1 day. NToV is already a huge wait without more waiting. Just a thought, would be more than enough mobs for ML to kill today.

Klan is alive and well as far as I know, heard he respawned after we left. Goodluck Dl.

[Quintall_ML]

ML set our plans up to go into NToV Thursday night, based on the other rotations and to get more of the Spawn up in there. I don't see this being an issue, since as you pointed out they will be just starting to respawn tonight. Based on the timeline posted by Hoss, that should give us the Ring all alive except Vyemm, and maybe even the Back 5, with Vyemm and Vulak coming up Friday.

Was there ever a determination come to about rotation mobs spawned in multiples by GM's or whatever this week(end)? Sont was up in duplicate, we just got rid of the bugged one above ToV after the normal one died.

[Grazel_VE]

Originally posted by Ciner
We did finally get to try Yel, GM showed up around 11 to fix where he had been left by ML... But you were right Quint hes bugged weird wont reset. So Hoss is up today I guess.


Wonder if Trak is bugged the same way, see my other post.

[Ciner]

Welp if ML's second Sont isnt counting then our Zlan kill shouldnt count.

My problem with NToV is that its becoming more than a week rotation as I forsaw which is getting annoying, there would be 4 mobs up tonight for the killing.

[Quintall_ML]

Look at it this way Ciner, when you guys go in next week, you'll have more of your guild out of school for the weekend, (not meant as a flame btw, seriously), and won't be waiting for a spaced out spawn of any kind.

[Ciner]

Most of Vindi is in college so we are out just about as much during the week as during the weekend. Anyways... What are you doing about Sont quint?

If ya intend for it not to count than take Vindi's Zlan kill off the records too.

[Wyvern]

Aye, either none, or all of the gm popped dragons are to be not considered rotation kills.

[Sirensa]

GM spawned dragons/gods should still count towards rotation.

If you want to argue that they don't, then hoss' cazic on sunday was not his normal spawn, and was not part of the rotation, so we're up for next!!

See how illogical that is?

Be fair - you had your turn - now let someone else.

[Quintall_ML]

Well, in the case of CT we've seen him have 5 day spawns three times in a row in the past, without a patch, so hard to say that was a GM spawn for sure... especially since the GM spawn CT was killed the day before by TR in an event. :)

ML has no issue with showing GM spawned Dragons as non-rotation, in all honestly neither of the two that occurred affect the rotation all that much (in the case of Sont there was 0 effect).

Once we get this ironed out, I'll make whatever adjustments are necessary to the rotation schedule up there.

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

Klan is alive and well as far as I know, heard he respawned after we left. Goodluck Dl.

Well not sure if you were aware, but when he respawned Vind went back to try him again but failed ;)

[Ciner]

Hadn't heard that Dl, like I said Klan is up as far as I know for your folks rotation.

I agree with Sirensa, GM pop'd or not the mob was killed and should reflect as such. Except for TR's CT which wasnt the regular one.

Also, Lends is up gl with him tonight L`Malla

[Quintall_ML]

First I heard of this, thanks for the heads up.

I'll check with our folks on this.

Edit: Somehow this post got ahead of the post it was replying too??

[Ciner]

On Wednesday, October 31st, at 3AM PST, (11AM GMT), all servers will be brought down for a scheduled patch. The estimated downtime is 4 hours. - The EverQuest Operations Team

ML are you going to be in North killing the 4 mobs up or in ST killing the warders? Don't want shit going to waste tonight.

[Andaas]

Regarding NToV, I think we had originally mentioned allowing for a 24 hour waiting period to start a raid to ensure sufficient dragons would spawn.

In the case of ML, that would mean beginning the raid on Wednesday. ML should experience zero waiting for spawns if they begin on Wednesday.. waiting until Thursday will just have multiple dragons sitting around for 48 hours or so.

If ML chooses to wait until Thursday to go after other spawns outside of NToV, I think it only fair that they use their monthly day pass on NToV, as others are waiting to go in, and their delay causes others to have to wait.

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

I'd hope they would have 0 wait, they're patching Wednesday ;)


So um, prepare accordingly.

[Baramos1]

ML wants to begin our NToV raid on Thursday.

Here is what we're prepared to do.

1) Stay out of NToV today and have Hoss/Vind split (or whatever they decide) the current NToV spawns.

2) Take our "pass" tomorrow, and begin on NToV Thursday.

If there are no objections to this, then Hoss and Vind have some spawn negotiating to do.

Agreed?

Bara

[Sirensa]

Ummm...

The one day extension was to allow for spawns to catch up. Since patch is Wednesday, ML has zero excuse not to start their NTOV raid on Wednesday.

If you are unwilling to start your raid at full spawn, I am quite sure someone else is.

ML can start tonight and pick up 4 free spawns, or start tomorrow at full spawn.

Monthly passes should not apply to a week long raid. Do your thing or let someone else.

[Ciner]

I agree, my guild is already asking why you folks wouldnt start today, before we knew about patch that was though.

With patch I defenitly expect ML to be in there, if your unwilling to go Wends we would be more than happy.

[Andaas]

Based on the fact that there is a patch on the 31st, I think that ML must begin their NToV raid on patch day.

Lets face it, NToV spawns are the most important spawn rotation that the guilds involved want. NToV should take 100% priority over other spawn rotations.

I realize I've changed my view a bit since my earlier post, but lets be realistic here. Hoss, Vindication, ML, and now L`malla want to hunt here, so we're talking about 1 run per month each. We can't have these raids pushed off 24 hours after a patch, ever.

If its 1 mob (ie, Yelinak, Tormax), a 24 hour pass seems acceptable, NToV is 15 mobs, and 24 hours could result in 5 or more mobs not respawning prior to a patch.

[Baramos1]

Sirensa -

In the spirit of ML's willingness to grant leeway to Hoss in ST, I don't think you'd be arguing the point.

Regardless, I wasn't talking about the "24 hour extension", I was referring to the "Monthly Pass" that we all get.

Mythic hasn't used its pass in October.

We'll be taking it tomorrow.

So, let me explain. Repops started today. We have by the NToV agreement 24 hours to wait for more spawns. We also have a 24 hour "pass" for October. That puts us up to Thursday.

Thanks.

Bara

[Quintall_ML]

It's Halloween folks, we'd like to not be draggin folks in there when there's tons of GM things going on, same with you I would imagine.

And remember, if you go check the Scheduled downtime, you would notice that it doesn't matter if ML starts Weds or takes the monthly extesion this time, as there is another patch due Nov. 7th, Weds.

[Ciner]

Exactly, the 24hour pass is usable on 1 mob, not 15.

Your holding up some 500 other players by trying to push the rotation back, and keeping up this lolly gagging is absurd. You folks need to get your priorities in order and follow through not delay and waste everyones time.

To reiterate, if ML is not in NToV wends, Vindi will be.

[Baramos1]

One other thing, while we're on the subject.

Let's not get into the habit of changing the rules for rotations in mid-stream.

If we're going to change the rules, let's propose and ratify the rule change.

The rotation rules' 24 hour "extension" is fairly established. If it makes sense to change it for ToV N, I'm not saying I'm against it (makes sense, actually), but let us be rigorous in changes or amendments to existing rotations.

Ciner, we're abiding by the rules established by the IGB. If you go in there, ignoring the rules, we'll consider this an FFA act.

Bara

[Andaas]

You really think that some lame Halloween GM event is better than NToV? That's just plain stupid.

If ML is serious about killing in NToV, you will be in the zone clearing on Wednesday, patch day. Other NToV capable guilds will be more than happy to pick up your slack on Wednesday.

Also, starting 24 hours late in this instance pushes ML over into the next patch (your 7th day would be post-patch). Using that kind of positioning to get extra spawns cannot and will not be tolerated.

You are also cutting yourself off from potential raid time in killing Vyemm/Vulak. Would ML step aside if Vyemm/Vulak aren't dead before Tuesday to let Hoss in to clean them up? I don't think so.

ML, everything points to your raid starting tomorrow. I don't see how you could cut yourself short on raid time like this, it just seems like a poor decision.

If ML isn't willing to start tomorrow because of "Halloween GM events", perhaps you should trade your NToV raid with someone who is willing to spend the week in the zone, and ML can then take the zone the following patch.

[Ciner]

Bara. Hoss also agrees you should be there tomorrow.

If you disagree I'm happy for you but your outnumbered(not literally noone can outnumber the zerg) on this board, as such it would not be an FFA act, it would be a majority decision.

So expect ya folks to be in NToV tomorrow. Andaas and I are in agreement the 24 hour pass does not apply to 15 mobs. Meaning your thoughts or your opinions on weither or not it is a viable excuse to maximize MLs mob intake Wends/Thurs doesn't matter.

Stop wasting everyones fucking time your holding up 15 endgame mobs and hundreds of people.

[Wyvern]

So whats the deal with ML's two sontalaks? Since all other spawned mobs are counting as rotational, this means its an out of order kill?

So who is going to kill the warders before the patch? ML is going tonite, correct?

And: Whats the situation with ntov tonite, should we plan on going in?

[Baramos1]

We're not trying to "position" ourselves.

We're pretty well "positioned" right now, with the MOBs that will be up there tonight. We could get some extras, if we wanted to do so. As it stands, we were inviting Hoss and Vind to get them.

Honestly, I can't understand this thrashing. We thought Vind and Hoss would be happy to get some extra NToV dragons, not worrying about nonsense like the above.

We are following the rules, as you acknowledged in your first post about this above, Andaas.

This isn't rocket science. It was as obvious to you then, as it is to us.

This is why we have rules in the first place, so that people can't, on a whim, change their minds about what's "fair" just because it suits them.

We're abiding by the rules here, and expect everyone else to do the same.

If we want to make a change in the rules for NToV regarding a monthly extension, let's post it, and talk about it, and ratify it.

I think it's only fair.

Baramos

[Quintall_ML]

Perhaps Hoss and Vind could show a bit of courtesy here, instead of greed, eh?

ML has already said to go ahead and go kill the mobs spawning tonight, work it out between you, we'll go into ST.

Perhaps showing some courtesy would have ML willing to only take 6 days and leave Tuesday rather than kill 4-5 N ToV mobs on the next patch day, eh? We'll have Vyemm/Vulak dead by Sunday most likely, we've just got to test them and work em on Saturday to know for sure. Hell, they may even die on the first attempt, stanger things have happened.

As to what we think about Halloween, we think that our members fun comes first, 100%, and lots of them remember the Faydedar fight in LoIO that was, more than anything, FUN. Remember fun?

[Baramos1]

Ciner -

It doesn't matter if you and Andaas "agree" about this.

The rules are clear.

The IGB isn't an arena where a couple guilds can "team up" and agree on something just because they see it as obvious.

If you don't abide the rules of rotations, and that includes the legitimate 24 hour extension, then you are saying you want to go FFA.

If you go into NToV tomorrow, you're declaring FFA on Mythic.

Bara

[Andaas]

And what if Vyemm and Vulak aren't dead this weekend, or dead on Tuesday?

Since you are so confident that they will be, would you be willing to let Hoss in to kill them on Tuesday should they be alive still?

That gives you 3 days by your schedule to work on them, since you plan on testing them on Saturday, then you have Sunday and Monday still to kill them. Plenty of time, right?

[Baramos1]

Wyvern:

The 2 Sontalaks I think Quintall talked about. Whatever the board as a whole decides (FFA or not FFA) is fine. I'm neutral on the subject. Quint will modify the arrangement to the board's decision.

ML will kill the Warders tonight.

NToV is between Hoss and Vind unless it gets more ridiculous here.

[Baramos1]

Andaas -

What day is the patch?

[Andaas]

Patch is Wednesday, November 7th... so Tuesday would be the last night to kill Vyemm/Vulak.

[Ciner]

Baramos if you can show me where in the Rotation Guidelines that once a month pass exists you might have a case.

It is my understanding its a "loose rule", as such the majority of opinions on this IGB would matter. The majority say you cannot apply it to 15 mobs, only to 1 mob.

If you are not there Wends, we will be. Oh and you are welcome to reserve 1 of the NToV mobs till thurs. That is fine with me, and would be a valid use of the 24hr extention.:cool:.

[Andaas]

Just another issue to think about...

ML states that they wish to use their pass on NToV this Wednesday for "Halloween fun" events, because fun is the most important thing for your guild members. Fair enough, but I will take that to assume that ML plans on passing all other patch related spawns they are up for too then.

Thus, Tormax and Lendinaira should be available to the guilds following in the rotation if you were to get this 24 hour pass, correct?

[Ciner]

One thing that is upsetting me here is ML trying to abuse a loose rule and delay everyone just to aquire 2 more mobs.

If you will be passing on Tormax and Lend wendsday, then that is something entirely different...

[Quintall_ML]

Like I said before, we'd see how the membership feels tomorrow night regarding those two. We'll be sure to give you enough notice for them.

Christ, why is it that hard for Hoss and Vind to show some of the same courtesy they've been shown, and just say "okay guys, good luck in there, let us know if things change"?

[Baramos1]

Andaas -

No, we consider Len and Tormax fun, too. We plan on killing both these rotation MOBs tomorrow, and this is one of the reasons we're using our monthly extension.

Ciner -

The 24 hour "extension" has been used since (forever). Let's not pretend it doesn't exist. It's valid for a rotation event, not a MOB. Until we add a clause in the rotation rules, any guild can continue to use it, for any rotation.

Andaas -

As to Vyemm/Vulak, I would not want to see rottage, obviously. I'd obviously not promise anything to Hoss, since I don't know what our status will be by then. I'm not immediately against offering some accomodation to prevent an obvious "rot", but unfortunately, I've run out of time to talk here. Talk to Quintall in-game about it. Or Korona. Or Roh.

Guys - I have to get to real work, now, and prepare to leave town. Try and stop being hardasses, everyone. It will just push us to FFA, and I think we can agree that no one wants that.

Way I see it is this:

1) Hoss and Vind relax about this "24 hour thing". Just drop it. The extension has been valid all along, and you're suddenly trying to change things, the day we agree to what Andaas had previously posted. We can ratify the rule, if it makes everyone happy, but ML's not going to get jammed because 2 guys decide out of the blue, that it's "not fair." The rules determine that.

2) Hoss and Vind negotiate with each other on who gets to kill what MOB in NToV tonight.

3) ML takes its (valid) extension tomorrow.

4) Quintall and Andaas discuss the possibility of spawn rottage due to patch, of Vulak. Whatever they decide should include mutual benefit.

Quint's going to have to take over from here.

Bara

[Ciner]

What courtesy has ML shown Vindi? You've never made an exception like this for us and you wouldnt if we were in your shoes.

Your blatently trying to use a loose rule to get two additional mobs and hold up every single guilds Ntov rotation.

[Andaas]

It isn't even very difficult to do Lend before an NToV raid actually, hell, you're in the same zone already, just pop her and then zone out/in and you're ready to go (or CoH).

I think the point that we are making here is that ML does not seem to have the committment/drive toward NToV that other guilds who wish to go there seem to have.

Both Hoss and Vindication want to be in NToV, period. If I could raid somewhere every day, it would be in NToV.

ML, since you have other spawns up, and halloween to occupy you, why not trade your NToV raid? Since you are willing to cut yourself short by starting a day late already, why not just wait a week?

Doing that would allow Vindication, who IS willing to start their raid tomorrow, a full week to kill in NToV. ML could then start the following Wednesday, nothing lost.

[Ciner]

And no I always considered the extention was for a MOB not an "event" wtf is that heh.

Vindi still does not recognize your wends extention as a legit rule.

Please do not misquote me. I did not say it was not a rule I mearly said according to Vindi it did not apply to the entire Ntov, but only to one mob. Andaas posted he agree'd that it only applied to one mob.

As the rule is not written anywhere it would be a majority decision...

[Ciner]

Andaas's proposal is acceptible to Vindi.

We would be willing to start asap and go till Tuesday. Leaving a fully respawned NToV for ML on wends.

[Wyvern]

Here is what is up right now:

Yelinak

Klandicar

Lendiniara

Dain?

Zlandicar

4-5 Ntov dragons

Eashen/Ikatiar

All 3 Warders (been up 3 days now..)

All these mobs are up, who is killing what.. Since I know some guilds who are up for some rotationwise just arent going to get them before the night is over.

[Ciner]

As far as I know...

Yelinak-Hoss as per rotation?

Klandicar-L`malla as per rotation

Lendiniara-L`malla as per rotation

Zlandicar-L`malla as per rotation

4-5 Ntov dragons-Not certian yet, perhaps Vindi/Hoss/ML

Eashen/Ikatiar-Not certian yet, perhaps Vindi/Hoss/ML

All 3 Warders (been up 3 days now..)-ML as per rotation?

The only problem I forsee is Malla with the three dragons, some may not get killed but we'll see.

[Ciner]

One last thing reguarding Ntov post patch the 31st.

The problem Vindi has with it is ML starting thursday would get not only a full spawn this week but also a full spawn next week. That is what is unacceptible, and trying to use the 24hour rule to buy yourself such an extention is... well creative but flawed.

So, acceptible solutions to Vindi...

1) ML trades Ntov, we start tomororw and go till tues, ML starts after patch

2) ML starts Wends officially and leaves Tues night, allowing Vindi to get fresh patch spawn.

[Andaas]

For the record, I see using a 24 hour pass on NToV to kill other rotation spawns to be in bad form and cheap. As Ciner has said, it is abusing a rule that very few people have ever even used, and abusing it to the great benefit of your guild.

NToV should be your priority, since you are up for it. I love how ML keeps quoting that anyone moving in to NToV on Wednesday will be committing a FFA act against ML.

The funny thing is, in the world of FFA servers, NToV is a big mess. Two or 3 guilds all in NToV simultaneously killing dragons, fun fun. Each guild killing whatever dragons they can get their hands on. Have you read the horror stories from Fennin lately? Remember Fennin, that slime pit many of us escaped from?

In the end, FFA would be interesting on this server, with all the capable guilds we have in NToV.

[Ciner]

FFA in Ntov would actually be some what of a crazy kinda fun hehe.

[Baramos1]

Guys -

Got a chance to hit "refresh" between stuff.

This thread is amazing to me. All this energy being devoted to this. Hell, I thought you guys would be happy to get a shot at NToV MOBs tonight, not arguing over when ML would start its rotation.

ML, as I said before is going to abide the letter of the IGB rules.

This means an extension can be used. Andaas already acknowledged this, then changed his mind. Flip-flop. Flip-flop. I'm personally a bit irritated that people keep wanting to change rules mid-stream when it suits them to do so.

Yes, I say that it's an FFA act if you move in Wednesday, because we're using an extension that conforms to the letter of the rules here. It may be inconvenient to some, but that's the nature of rotations - sometimes people are inconvenienced. As I said, I don't have an issue with putting a clause in the rotations to exclude NToV from the "24 hour extension rule", but since we'd been planning all week on using the extension, we're sticking to it. This wasn't an attempt to "pull the wool over anyone's eyes", or to be "cheap", but was rather a scheduling reality necessary to keep on track. I would think the option to get rottage dragons would be appealing to both Vind and Hoss.

ML plans to take its extension tomorrow, as Andaas first suggested, and as we later acknowledged. We will be in NToV on Thursday night, in accordance with IGB rules.

Baramos

[Ciner]

Dude I have offered some very viable solutions to this current problem.


1)ML could start officially wends, and still get the mobs they want... Tormax/Lend. Just taking a day off there own Ntov time to kill Lend/Tormax. And be out by patch day.

2)ML could trade Ntov with Vindi and still get the mobs they want Lend/Tormax. Vindi would be out by patch day and ML will still get full respawn.

Since you ignore my offers for an easier solution, I'll break the rules of this IGB down for you exactly

THERE IS NO WRITTEN RULE SAYING 24 HOUR PASS. If there were this arguement would not be happening cause it would say "mob" or "event" and we would have our answer.

Okay so once again THERE IS NO WRITTEN RULE SAYING 24 HOUR PASS on this entire board.

So, do we know if it should apply to a "mob" or an "event"? No.

How can we decide?

Well since the rules here are created by what the majority whats we must also do that in this instance. Hoss/Vindi agree ML cannot use a 24 hour extention on 15 mobs. Sorry ML you are overruled. Failure to be in Ntov tomorrow is considered a pass by the rules of this IGB.

[Quintall_ML]

And, had you bothered to read the full posts, you would have noted that ML offered, if shown some damn courtesy, to only do a 6 day turn and be done with NToV Tuesday, giving the next guild (Vind) a full respawn with the patch.

Don't bullshit us about using extansions to kill other mobs, every single guild here that has used one has done it with that in mind, and if I wanted to go through the archives and waste my evening the way I wasted my day, I could do so.

As far as showing Vind courtesy, it's happened, same with Hoss. Just say "good luck in there ML", and let it go already, we're abiding by the rules here, and not being greedy by pushing for multiple N ToV mobs, which we all know we could have done rather than come right out and say "go for it guys, work it out and have fun".

I haven't seen such crying since my 5 year old wanted dessert after every meal one day, you guys sound that bad, be adults about it.

[Quintall_ML]

Ciner, listen to what you just wrote:

"1) ML could start officially wends, and still get the mobs they want... Tormax/Lend. Just taking a day off there own Ntov time to kill Lend/Tormax. And be out by patch day."

And think about it for a minute. What do you think we've been saying the whole time, just in another manner?

"ML will be taking our single day extension and starting in N ToV Thursday"

"ML intends to be done in N ToV the day before the next patch if shown some courtesy, so the next guild up will have a full respawn."

Funny how alike these look.

Back up a minute and you'd see that too.

[Ciner]

If you'll be out by patch day (Tues night last day there) we've np with ya doing Ntov this week whenever the hell you want.

Btw if one of the ML reps here has AIM or ICQ or IRC we could talk this shit out so much easier like Siren/Andy and I do when we've a conflict. Wouldnt need 5000 posts.

[Rezz]

L`Malla is up for the Yelinak after Hoss, not ML. Just a heads up ;)

[Baramos1]

Just so we're clear here.

I don't want this to come up later.

Mythic will be in NToV up to and including Tuesday, of next week. (We'd no intention of crossing the patch boundary in the first place.)

In addition, since there is a patch coming next week, we may elect to do the dragons from the back. (Doubt it, but maybe).

This shouldn't affect anyone's MOB progression.

Bara

[Baramos1]

There are two Yelinaks up right now.

One where Vind left him last night (out by the gate in the hall), and one on the normal spawn spot.

Bara

[Ciner]

Sounds fine Bara.

[Thanatoz]

If ML says theyll be done with Ntov by next patch(tuesday ngiht) then who the hell cares when they start? next week is a patch and thus when x mob is being killed dont mean a damn thing.

I really dont think ML would try to take ntov mobs next week after a patch that falls on there 7th day. If that was there plan then I say torch the mother fuckers!

If ML plans are clearly to "be fruity festive fuckers" and kill tormax and lend and be done with ntov come tuesday night. Then I say be cool. Everyone be fonzy and stfu.

Now about this sontalak issue that Vind keeps pushing. What is the deal with that? But Vind i ask you, how many zlands did u kill Sunday? I heard reports of numerous times because Zland was spawning every hour. So before you starting preaching, make sure you are of the righteous.

14 days without smoking and chewing and every fucking day gets worse.

[Quintall_ML]

L`Malla entered the rotation after it was made (10/24 was creation), hence the 'added 10/25' note there.

Work something out, all the fighting today to find out we were saying the same thing the whole time was tiring.

[Baramos1]

Anyone know if Dain's up?

[Ciner]

Since tomorrows issues somewhat solved.

Wondering about what was decided on Sont also. We got 1 Zlan which was counted as our rotation. I'd expect ML to sit out a Sont rotation since they scored two last night.

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

Unsure on Zland. Not up now....hearing various people saying he was up. NK was there this morning, but claim they didn't touch him.


*shrug*

[Quintall_ML]

Just got word, CT is up. Good luck Vind. :)

[Wyvern]

CT traded with ML, good luck in st/fear.

[Ahaman]

Nk struggled with last attempt of talendor .... dont think unless they had help, that they could even do zland....

Just something to think about

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

Klandicar dead

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

Lend dead

[Andaas]

Originally posted by Baramos1
In addition, since there is a patch coming next week, we may elect to do the dragons from the back. (Doubt it, but maybe).

My original proposition of killing Aaryonar within the 1st 48 hours of an NToV raid was less about keeping respawn tidy, and more of proving worth.

If you look back on ML's last NToV raid, ML failed to Aaryonar (who is actually one of the easier dragons back there), on their reclearing. I stand by the fact that Aaryonar should be killed within 48 hours of the raid starting. This was not intended to be a "1 time" proving of capability, but an ongoing test.

Since ML is choosing to spend the 1st day of their NToV raid killing Lend and Tormax, if Aaryonar isn't dead on Wednesday, your raid should be over.

[Baramos1]

LOL.

No.

Bara

[Rezz]

Yar, I know we joined 10/25 =) ML failed 10/28, Vind failed 10/29, and Hoss has yet to go. According to the rules, that would place us next after Hoss, since every guild will have had a shot since our join date. Hence my post of us being next. Don't wanna bump heads, just makin sure a clerical error doesn't force us another month down the rotation, or a week at it's current kill rate. That was a joke, btw.:p

[Baramos1]

CT Dead.

3 Warders Dead.

[Andaas]

Originally posted by Baramos1
LOL.

No.

Bara

So Mythic isn't going to agree to the NToV standards that everyone else has agreed to?

As Baramos would say, if Mythic doesn't kill Aaryonar by the end of their raid on Thursday, and is in NToV on Friday, that will be a FFA act against Vindication.

Seriously, we have been discussing NToV for weeks. We have stated a few standards that nobody has contested. Why must ML do things against these standards? And yes, this was mentioned to you on your last NToV raid, and you went against it then as well, so this is a repeated problem with ML.

[Baramos1]

Andaas.

You're a trouble-starting lil guy aren't you.

Ok, let me make it simple.

We have made it clear - crystal clear - that we're test driving a set of rules that we can mold that we can all find reasonable.

Rohaisa already responded to the point of the "gatekeeping test" saying that once proven, it doesn't really matter.

No rules have been ratified by Mythic, and I personally think it's bogus to require people to continue to "prove" anything, just because you think we should. Mythic flat-out refuses that "clause" of the proposed set of rules, in fact, if that was your intent of the statement.

One someone's killed Aary, I don't really care what order they kill the dragons in. As a matter of courtesy, it would be nice for them to kill Aary first, but no requirement.

So, no, there's no FFA act, because there's not a ratified set of rules yet.

We haven't even really ratified how long the 7 day rule is going to last. I'm fine with letting it go on forever.

I think you find all this thrashing amusing, Andaas, with your passive-aggression. Have your fun. Doesn't change what we're doing in NToV this week, though.

Pound sand, brat.

Bara

[Baramos1]

BTW, here's a quote from Roh's version, to be even more clear, Andass.

=================

Make it 7 days.

There is then no question of respawns.

Guilds that can clear it in 3 or 4 days can then pick a single block of 3-4 days without having to drag out a several day long raid waiting on respawns of initial and clean-up raids. E.G. if the previous guild took 5 or more days to kill their mobs, you don't have to run in right away and sit on your butts waiting on respawns. You can do more useful things while mobs are respawning and then just go in the last 4 of your 7 days.

You can then kill Aaryonar in whatever order you want without messing up other guilds. You can start in the back, front, or even sideways if you have the means without anyone dictating exactly how you must spend your fun time.

==============

Continue to read through that thread, and at the end of the thread, you can see I'm asking for more inputs (which no one provided.)

As you can clearly see, an agreement by all guilds is still yet to happen.

Etc. Don't know why I'm bothering with this, when you're obviously just making trouble for fun.

I suggest you go back to that thread, and continue to add to it, with the learnings that all three guilds have gotten this month.

I think one thing is certainly clear, and that is that we're not getting along well enough to "handshake the rotters" as I'd hoped.

We're going to need something formal there, in some way.

Bara

[Yendii]

Well lets agree to something simple, ML took too sont's last weekend, one out of rotation. Vindi took two Zlands last weekend, one out of rotation. I don't care if sont spawned in your bedroom, he was up and you killed him and you got ST key so that counted as a sont.

Edit: spelling, and don't make fun of me if I still have typos!

[Yendii]

As far as 24hr passes and Ntov... I think its clear that the 24hr 1/month extensions were supposed to be used on a single mob, such as any of the 'rotated ubers'. If you want to say NToV rules haven't been hashed out and ratified yet, you can hardly claim the 24hr 1/month extension should apply. All that being said it seems that Hoss, Vind and ML have all offered up some comprimises some of which are very similar in nature, why not go that extra step and get it together and agree on something.

[Andaas]

Baramos,

If you are curious why I designed that rule, it was quite simple. It was to create a stepping stone. That rule could have been implemented on several levels, to insure that progression was being made through the zone, however it was left at Aaryonar because most of the other dragons are trivial.

I honestly would not have brought this up had Mythic not overlooked that rule on their last raid after the patch, as well as not failed on Aaryonar after the patch as well.

In a sense, Mythic has failed a test of NToV already, by only beating Aaryonar once. Perhaps it was luck that allows you into the back end of the zone, perhaps not.

Regardless, the Aaryonar rule was not contested by anyone, not even Mythic Legion, except that Mythic seems not to want to abide by it.

Can I ask what ML plans to gain by starting NToV from the back?

This is a simple rule that was put in place as a requirement for success, as well as a way for a guild to lose/fail the raid early. This requirement is in place to ensure that your raid is of sufficient strength to be fighting in the zone - and is a rule that applies to ALL guilds doing NToV, not just ML.

Because the rules are still in flux, I firmly believe that "majority" rules in this case. This rule was stated, and not contested by anyone until tonight.

Kill Aaryonar within 48 hours of the patch and all is well, fail or don't attempt him and you raid is over - simple as that, as stated in the rules.

[Wyvern]

Vindication took one Zlandicar, according to rotation, didnt have to trade with lmalla because of time, but we did.

The ML second sontalak was an out of order slaying.

[Andaas]

Originally posted by Baramos1
We have made it clear - crystal clear - that we're test driving a set of rules that we can mold that we can all find reasonable.

I agree that they are being molded still, however, the rules as proposed have not been opposed. Thus, these are the working rules until they are further molded.


Rohaisa already responded to the point of the "gatekeeping test" saying that once proven, it doesn't really matter.

The "gatekeeping test" is something that ML failed on their 2nd time through. How does this not matter? If ML cannot field a raid strong enough to pass this test within 48 hours of their raid start, THEY LOSE, RAID OVER.


No rules have been ratified by Mythic, and I personally think it's bogus to require people to continue to "prove" anything, just because you think we should. Mythic flat-out refuses that "clause" of the proposed set of rules, in fact, if that was your intent of the statement.

Mythic doesn't hold final say on ratification of any rules, any rules would be agreed upon by a vote of involved guilds. The NToV rules should have input and majority ratification by the current active guilds, Hoss, ML, and Vindication, we can include L`Malla at this point as well if you wish.


One someone's killed Aary, I don't really care what order they kill the dragons in. As a matter of courtesy, it would be nice for them to kill Aary first, but no requirement.

Just because you can kill Aaryonar yesterday, doesn't mean you can kill him today. Guilds are evolving entities, they are stronger one day than they may be the next. This is an ongoing test to ensure that your current raid is strong enough to continue.

Many people in Hoss feel that the Aaryonar rule should only be 24 hours, I don't entirely disagree with that, but I will stand with 48 hours for now.


So, no, there's no FFA act, because there's not a ratified set of rules yet.

Of course it will be an FFA act, because everything done against against the rules of this forum is an FFA act, at least in your eyes Bara.

-----

It grows old hearing the same old "FFA FFA" cries from you Baramos.

The Aaryonar rule was created to push rotations along. That was the sole reason for it, and if you misinterpreted it I'm sorry. Ignorance of the proposed rule is not an excuse however.

If Aaryonar is not killed on Thursday, I will stand behind Vindication entering NToV and killing on Friday 100%. The zone will belong to them in my opinion.

[Quintall_ML]

Andaas,

That single NToV run we had was all within a single 7 day period. We had already killed Aaryonar within our allotted time for it. If you want to change it to say he has to be killed in 48 hours if he respawns during your run, then just come out and say so, don't cause more shit here by saying we 'failed' in there, because we didn't.

Baramos' statement was to ensure you were crystal clear that ML WILL be in NToV Thursday to Tuesday, doing it in whatever way we goddamn well please, and it won't interfere with the next guild in rotation.

You need to step back a bit and relax man, grab a coke and a smile, and stop trying to wave how big yer manliness is just to get attention. My guess is you were bored again yesterday and had to start something. Knock it off. You want to do bullshit, create a bullshit forum and fill it up. Don't come here though and cause trouble just to do it, it's grown very, very tiresome.

To be completely clear here, again, ML will be doing this:

Tonight killing Tormax and Lend
Thursday killing Eashen, Aaryonar+
Friday killing more in N ToV
Saturday killing more in NToV
Sunday killing more in NToV
Monday if NToV not clear, killing more in NToV
Tuesday if NToV not clear, killing more in NToV
Wednesday checking rotations to see what we are up for based on patches, spawn trades, etc.

Got it? Good, now stop causing shit just to look big Andaas, all it does is make you look like a petulant ass, which everyone here knows you are capable of rising above.

[Quintall_ML]

On Sontalak, the leaning is going to calling it out of order, ML will go by that, and sit out our next rotation. (ie, a single rotation)

Updating now on the schedule, anyone else kill anything last night beside the CT and ST I know about for ML?

[Quintall_ML]

Also adjusted Yelinak to reflect L`Malla status correction.

Vind is still up for Ragefire, please don't let the rotation hang again, Nagafen due tonight, should be a raid going in for him per the D Ro schedule, just double check it to see who is up.

[Andaas]

Originally posted by Quintall_ML
Thursday killing Eashen, Aaryonar+

That was all that was asked.

It is not about anyone's manliness, it is about conforming to the rules that others adhere to, nothing more. You have stated that you plan on meeting the rules that others have agreed to, so I see there is in fact not a problem as Baramos led me to believe.

Also, I am not "causing shit to look big". My guild wants to return to NToV in as short a time as possible, therefore it is my best interest to ensure that the rotation moves along. The Aaryonar rule was put there to make sure the rotation had a point of failure for all involved. And yes, my guild had asked me specifically about Aaryonar dying within the allotted time (which they feel is too long already).

[Quintall_ML]

Let me clarify this again, Andaas, maybe I should have written that better. ML will be in NToV killing shit, from wherever we fell like, in whatever order we fell like, starting Thursday and ending Tuesday.

The rotation will move NO faster no matter how we start it, as Vind will be in there post patch in one week, so calm down and stop sounding so damn greedy. After multiple Vulaks, you've no reason to push it any harder than anyone else, and believe me, ML wants the rotation to move along fast as well.

However, we won't be bullied into doing it *your* way if we don't feel like it.

[Selice-ML]

(holds her head to keep it spinning from reading this thread)

Ok...everyone...take a deep breath, and look at how freaking stupid this argument is. ML is up for ToV this week. From patch day to patch day.

WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE WHEN ML STARTS? We have a week in there, and we won't go past the following patch day (Which is 7 days from last)

People...let ML do thier thing there...and stop meddling. And you guys do your thing in your rotation slots. I absolutely cannot beleive the bickering here. This IS a group of adults...is it not? Can we please start acting like it?

[Andaas]

Mythic Legion approached me about my thoughts on an NToV rotation guideline. I created a first draft of these guidelines that most people were fairly agreeable to.

This included a "pass or fail" test on the dragon named Aaryonar, one of the first spawns in NToV. This test is in place to create an element of risk in your raid... if you have a bad day, a bad week, whatever, it means you fail and move on.

The rule is to apply to everyone that plays in this zone, and is not specific to ML, Vindication, Hoss, or anyone.

I don't understand how ML can preach adherance to every rule in this forum, yet they will not abide to this rule that should have zero bearing on you, since you have in fact proven you are capable of killing Aaryonar.

ML failed on their last attempt(s) of this dragon. This means that the "test" of the zone is something that is not a sureity. That is why the "test" is there, its a possibility of failure so that someone else may take a turn after you a bit sooner.

I don't know how you can't understand why I am trying to enforce this rule. It was written with a reason, and that reason was to end NToV raids short.

With regards to ML's previous interrupted raid, your actions by starting in the back had serious repercussions on the following guilds raid. I agree fully that respawn is not an issue in this event, however, that was not the full intent of this rule.

[Quintall_ML]

Andaas,

We've tried to make this clear before about that following guild's raid. THERE WERE NO REPRECUSSIONS.

When we left N ToV, no less than Aary, Fesh, Dag, Lord K, Lady M, Koi, Vyemm, and Vulak were ALL UP.

I know this, I was there. Any comments about them not being up is flat out false, they had all respawned with the patch, and the only 5 dragons we killed after the patch were Jor, Nev, Cek, Sev, and Zlex, along with the named Drakes that path around the Ring, Eashen, and Ikatiar.

How much clearer do we have to be about this? I have NO CLUE why they took as long as they did, the ONLY wait they would have had was for the back five, and they *could* and *did* have 6 days to clear Aary and the ring, and try Vyemm and Vulak, as all of those were up.

Can we drop that now? Thanks.

And by your own initial post in the V3 thread, a respawn during the raid is another thing entirely, as the test has already been 'passed' in the first 48 hours of the raid. And it's also something ML has YET to agree with you on.

This turn affects no following guild's rotation, there's a patch at the end of it, just say good luck ML, and let's move on already.

[Andaas]

I have already agreed that respawn has no bearing on this particular raid. You also know my reason for creating the Aaryonar rule.

Why not just kill Aaryonar? There would be no issue if you just go and kill Aaryonar as the rule proposal has stated since v1.

Is it because I asked that you have Aaryonar dead by Thursday? Hell, kill him by the end of the day Friday. The fact is, there is a 48 hour rule placed on Aaryonar to incur the remote possibility that one of us fails to benefit the other guilds.

Why can't you accept that concept?

[Ubar]

I think Andaas just wants Aaryonar dead to prove to him (and this forum) that you can kill him in an orderly and timely fashion and that if you cannot (which I highly doubt) you will move along for another guild to move into Ntov so the rotation will move a little bit quicker. You have killed him before, so this should be a trivial matter to ML and should be easily accomplished within 48hrs of your raid starting, I dont see what the big argument is about?

[Rezz]

Incase ya missed it, Kland and Lendi down, Zland hadn't spawned yet or was ganked by NK while everyone was sleeping.

[Ciner]

What Andaas is asking is that Aary is dead in 48hrs of your raid.

He is correct in the statement that Aary is the test of Ntov. If you cannot kill Aary then you really dont belong there.

Seeing as you have killed Aary I'm uncertian as to why you are being so defensive.

Vindi has no problem killing Aary plus 3-4 other dragons in 24hrs. ML should have no problem having Aary dead in 12hrs since you have 2x the numbers of Vindi. Okay, was a little joke but seriously, you should have np killing Aary in 48hrs ML.

Kick Aary's butt and prove you can infact lay claim to your Ntov rotation.

I believe the reason Andaas is in doubt is because your success rate for Aary is 50%. Thus he simply wants some conclusive evidence one way or another.

Reguarding Sont, I expect ML to be sitting out a rotation, stop ignoring this heh... You got two, stop trying to walk around it!

Reguarding Zlan.. we got one, read it, one Zlan. Which we traded spawns with L`malla for even though we didnt have to. Zlan had been up 28 hours when we killed, it was a favor.

Your post "Don't give me that shit about how we should be checking." ... Bullshit, you want on a rotation you sure as hell should be checking.

[Quintall_ML]

Here's the thing:

ML HAS proven that we can kill Aary, in fact, we killed him our first attempt.

The arguement is simply that there shouldn't have been one in the first place, with the patch following the run from ML, there should be no issue which direction we kill things. I doubt we will start from the back, it's just assinine to try and hold us to something like that for no good reason, when it's already been proven.

[Quintall_ML]

Ciner, regarding Sont, scroll up, and then look at the schedule. You there?

Who was your last phrase addressed to anyway?

[Ciner]

L`malla, Rezz specificly.

[Yendii]

Should have addressed it to me specificly since I was the one accusing you of taking zland out of rotation. I wasn't on Sunday for more than a few minutes, and I guess I didn't get the whole story on what happened, but my statement technicly stands, it was out of rotation, but apparently there was a trade. If zland was up 24hrs~ like you say then you did in fact do us a favor and I thank you for the trade.

[Ciner]

You folks should put a mule there.

It sucks seeing spawns going to waste, especially in the case of Zlan who if you do not kill in a certian time despawns.

That is why we went immediatly once the 24hr window had elappsed.

[Thanatoz]

Ciner,

Hoss killed zlan on friday. Why would Lmalla check on zlan on sat? I mean he normally is a 5day spawn is he not? And if u had an eye witness that zlan was up for 28hours why didnt you say anything on sat? That would have been the courteous thing to do is it not? I mean It was IG who was checking on YOUR ragefire while you were off in ntov was it not? And pretty sure more than one zland was killed this weekend. But hey what do I know.

Lets be nice and stop being such fucking pricks.

[Sirensa]

I heard Night Kids ganked Zlandicar yesterday - dunno if it is true or not but that's the rumor.

I think in the future we need to make it a rule that guild's cannot use a monthly pass on ntov mobs. Period. If you have to pass on other mobs you are up for rotation-wise on the first day of your NToV raid - so be it. Let someone else have something to kill too. (before you flame me - I said FUTURE - every raid AFTER this current ML slot - forget ML this time, it's as good as done).

Just a reminder - Next Tuesday - the night before patch day - is Druzzil's scheduled TOT3 event. I noticed ML and Vindication (as well as Hoss) all have teams entered. Good luck in advance everyone.

[Wyvern]

As far as ragefire goes, I logged a monk and checked the lair every couple hours for the 3 days prior to patch.. never showed his face

[Ciner]

Yes Than the same courtesy L`malla showed the rotation when they killed 4ish Sev's this weekend, as I was recently informed.

Not cool...

[Thanatoz]

4!!!!! eee gad! so vile, so whoreish, so lame.

Im taking back all my gnomes...you all can die.

so the rumors are true that hoss killed 4 vulaks!? Sirensa u bad bad girl!

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

I WISH we killed 4 sevs this weekend! LOL. We killed sev saturday night, which was GM controlled, which you were aware of because we were discussing it at the time. I believe moments later you guys had a gm controlled dragon spawn on you as well.

I didn't think to mention it as a rotation spawn since it was GM controlled and not a normal sev, but if you want to call it a rotation spawn then skip us next sev.

[Ciner]

Dont lie the rumors say 4!!@

:cool:

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

HAHA damn dude i feel all special now! People starting rumors about mah guild! phear mah! ROFL

[Rezz]

Not tryin to start anything, but does anyone on this board check weeklong spawns every 3 hours after the mob was just killed? Anyway, fine fine, I'll park a mule down there~ on average, we check mobs every few hours a day or so before it's expected spawntime up till it pops, Zland wasn't supposed to pop 20 hours after he just died (going by precedence here.. he um, doesn't normally to my knowledge) so we weren't checking, we'll rectify that.

[Baramos1]

Andaas -

I don't care why you say you designed that "rule".

ML doesn't agree to it.

I think that as a test, it's a fine way to "gain admission" as I've already said.

The IGB is not a governing body. It's not a mini-NATO. Majority does not rule. This is a place where we schedule events, and try to get a long as best we can. If all the guilds cannot agree on a particular incarnation of the guidelines, then we must work to make sure that all do.

The Aary rule as you propose it is not acceptable to Mythic.

On the other hand, our normal modus operandi is to go for Aary first, anyway.

However, we're not going to be bound by it.

We'll do NToV in any order we please. Sometime, heck, we may not kill him at all.

Yes, ML agrees we should adhere to rules, once we agree on them.

Read my lips. Mythic doesn't agree to that proposed rule. We asked you to *propose* some guidelines that we would think about. ML thought about it, and ML doesn't don't like that one. Strike it. Mythic Legion, once a proven force in ML, has no reason nor need to "prove" anything

Mythic plans to always go into NToV in our rotation slot. Mythic will kill the dragons in whatever order we please.

Mythic is not going to argue this point again. If you want to ratify rules on NToV, then modify that proposal.

Bara

[Ciner]

Warders dead Oct 31st... but we just started CT too late were running on fumes.

Going to use our month extention thing on it and get him tomorrow. Tell me if any probs.

Status on Lend and Doz?

[Andaas]

Andaas -

I don't care why you say you designed that "rule".

ML doesn't agree to it.

If we don't use the "Aaryonar" rule as an early failure indicator for NToV, how about this then:
<hr>
The raiding guild must kill a minimum of two (2) of the 15 named mobs (listed in rule 2), each raid day, failure to do so will result in failure/forfeiture of the given raid, and control of the zone will be passed to the next guild in the rotation. Accomodations will be made if respawn issues restricts a guild from killing sufficient dragons.

A guild can build up a buffer of kills during their raid (ie, kill 3 dragons on day 1, and 1 dragon on day 2 is acceptable). However, in the event a guild is using a kill buffer, they are still required to kill 1 dragon on that given day. This is to prevent a guild from taking a "free ride" in the middle of their raid to kill spawns outside of NToV.
<hr>
The above is much more strict than the simplistic Aaryonar rule I proposed. However, I feel it is necessary for a raid zone such as NToV to have a rule that may lead to a premature failure for the raiding guild.

Like I said before - we all have bad days/weeks, and the intention here is to make those bad days result in the failing guild leaving the zone. It keeps the rotation moving along faster.