Way to go, Bush supporters [Archive]

Maegwin

11-03-2004, 04:14 PM

I'm sure the 100,000+ Iraqi civilians and 1000+ american troops that died for Bush's lies are turning over on their graves because of your short sighted stupidity.

Maybe the Bush fans can bring Hitler back to life and give him a second chance, too.100,000 civilians? Last I heard from a news source the total number of Iraqi casualties including military was only around 25,000.

P.S. How many countless future Iraqi's will THANK us for freeing them from the Regime of Sadaam Hussein and his tyrant sons? It sounds like you're the one being more short sighted here.

P.P.S Here's a link http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3223523.stm that talks about some casualty figures from the major operations portion of the war. At that point the figures were only somewhere around 13,000 total Iraqi's killed. There is no way the total could be anything near your outrageous 100,000 comment. Then there's another article/website http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ that estimates around 16,000 right now.

Is this the link you referenced? http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996596 . If so, it's a tiny sample size, and I have trouble believing you can just extraploate death counts from 1000 households to an entire country. For one, military action is not consistent across the entire region.

Scrith

11-03-2004, 04:18 PM

This is all the South's fault (they are the ones that voted for him). I wonder if they'd accept an offer to let them go ahead and secede like they wanted to 150 years ago, so they can stop electing idiots to run our country.

Andriana Duskrose

11-03-2004, 04:48 PM

...stop electing idiots to run our country.

From how things looked, all you had on either side to vote for were idiots. Either way you were fucked with no free dinner.

Aradil

11-03-2004, 04:59 PM

Man, I typed about a 1000 word reply to this post, but in the end I decided it wasn't even worth it. I can sum it up in much shorter words. Tilea your an idiot,
you have no basis for the figures you put up and just called almost 60 million people stupid due to fact that they didn't believe in all the propaganda you read or see. So I guess I am stupid cause I will proudly state it..I voted for Bush and I was not going to gloat, but HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA he won.

Trazz

11-03-2004, 05:01 PM

If I told you once, I've told you a BILLION times.. Never exaggerate!

Vidmer

11-03-2004, 05:32 PM

People really let the ABB mentality get the best of them. They picked a candidate on the basis of his not being a spawn of Barbara Bush and not on his merits as a candidate. They further drowned out all rational criticism of Bush with the continious hysterical screed of "Hitler" and "killing brown people." The noise in this case drowned out the signal. Not to mention that the American people are famously stuborn; when told not to do something many Americans will do just the opposite to spite you, especially if it comes from a foreigner.

This is the second straight election the Dems ran on hate and lost. The price they pay for not learning from the 2002 mid-terms is the Presidency, 4-6 seats in the House, 4 seats in the Senate and maybe as many as 3 Supreme Court seats. Quite the price for hubris. I sincerely hope the Dems MoveOn, get over this and make a strong showing in 2006 or they may render themselves irrelevant at the national level. They really do need to retool, because I don't want America to become a 1 party nation.

Eomer

11-03-2004, 06:00 PM

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/10/28/iraq_deaths041028.html

This is most likely what Tilea was talking about, it was in the news last week. The methodology they used has been used in the past in Kosovo, and was relatively accurate. It isn't some pie in the sky guess, nor is it going to be totally accurate. Excluding Fallujah from the data, they figure the number is around 100,000. Include Fallujah and it jumps to 200,000. The researchers admit that it is not an incredibly accurate number, however it's virtually impossible to come up with one with the current conditions anyway.

This was also published in a respected, peer-reviewed medical journal. It's not Michael Moore, some hospitial records and a calculator. Even if it's not incredibly accurate, I think it's going to be in the ball park. It certainly seems within the realm of reason, if there's been 1100+ US soldiers killed.

If so, it's a tiny sample size, and I have trouble believing you can just extraploate death counts from 1000 households to an entire country. For one, military action is not consistent across the entire region.

1000 households is not a tiny sample size. Every time a poll is brought up over on Druzzil Ro, someone invariable says something along the lines of "they only polled 1500 people, that doesn't represent the nation!" Well guess what, established science says it does, within a margin of error that they calculate. Again, it's difficult to do any sort of representative sampling or polling in Iraq, and there will be some inaccuracy, but the 800 or so households is more than enough to at least give a rough estimate, which the researchers admit it is.

Azis

11-03-2004, 06:04 PM

:love: ...

Tarissa

11-03-2004, 06:53 PM

omgrofllolerskates its an 8 year old image macro

Elidroth

11-03-2004, 07:14 PM

I'm sure the 100,000+ Iraqi civilians and 1000+ american troops that died for Bush's lies are turning over on their graves because of your short sighted stupidity.

Maybe the Bush fans can bring Hitler back to life and give him a second chance, too.

Fuck you Tilea. I vote my convictions. It's my right to choose who I wish when I wish. You have NO right whatsoever to call ME (a Bush supporter) out like this.

Elidroth

11-03-2004, 07:21 PM

ROFL Tilea! :eek: :eek: :eek: :p

Lighten up people... it's funny!

Actually.. there's not a damn thing funny about it.

Forty

11-03-2004, 07:41 PM

You have NO right whatsoever to call ME (a Bush supporter) out like this.

Actually, she does. Whether you like it or not, the person sitting in the Oval office will effect her as well. She just doesn't get a say in the matter except on websites like this.

P.S. How many countless future Iraqi's will THANK us for freeing them from the Regime of Sadaam Hussein and his tyrant sons? It sounds like you're the one being more short sighted here.

That remains to be seen....this is the Middle East after all. Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan all had our help at one point or another and we eventually ended up at odds with their governments. And really, the whole Iraq will thank us talk, was the back-up arguement in case we didn't find wmd. A better planned attack and had we been able to go in sooner would have been better. The "Hey, we're gonna attack in, ohhh, two months" didn't help us but helped them.

On a brighter note, based on conversations I've had today, the economy is shaping up to give us good solid single-digit returns through the next year and possibly in the 1-3 year range. Despite the recent enegy price spike, a recession isn't likely to hit for another 8 to 12-months, if it does in fact materialize. Since the 1970's, a recession has hit just after a major spike in energy prices. If the dollar goes down, which it's expected to do, it will promote domestic spending and foreign investing.

From the foreign ploicy stand point, this article (posted in antother thread) seems to be the general thinking of most I talked to today.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6398886/site/newsweek/

“For my safety, I know he’s the one who’s going to do the job,” retiree Rebecca Lesko said after voting for Bush in Linwood, N.J. “I think (Osama) bin Laden is scared of Bush. That’s why we haven’t been bombed yet.”

This kinda talk really scares me. People are really need to pull their head out. Airports are no safer now then they were then. The only thing that has changed is that everyone gets to smell my stinky-ass feet. You honestly think the $9.00/hr slobs sitting there is some expert? With the incredible short training they have? You should try flying out of LAX, you'll see what I mean. And the wonderful Air Marshal program scares me as well. And it's really short-sighted considering the terrorist don't have to leave the middle-east to kill large amounts of Americans anymore.

But all of this is contradicted by our friends at the PNAC...You know, the group that Rumsfeld belongs to.

"This includes doggedly pushing plans to try to transform Iraq into a democracy and making good on a pledge that Iran should never be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons.

Schmitt said the Iran pledge may ultimately require using force. For the moment, Bush is geared toward a Nov. 25 deadline for persuading the U.N. nuclear agency to send the issue to the U.N. Security Council for possible sanctions."

Too late on the "Iran should never be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons" part I hear...but oh well...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6402195/

Funny, no one mentioned this little point during the debates or before the election. Wonder how many Republicans would have voted different had this little gem been out there. "Hey, btw, we'll be in Iran next, thanks for the vote."

Also found this interesting....

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6393501/

A top French general told a visiting retired U.S. Army officer last spring, “Even if our policy here changed 180 degrees and the president (of France) came to us and said, ‘What can we do for Iraq?’ I have troops in Haiti, in the Ivory Coast, in the Horn of Africa, in the Balkans, in Afghanistan. I’m having difficulty meeting these commitments. The notion that we or the Germans can give you 50,000 troops, even together, is just not realistic.”

Qaediin

11-03-2004, 08:23 PM

The dollar is at its weakest against the Euro than anytime since the EU started. Go figure/shrug

Stacked

11-03-2004, 08:35 PM

/shrug Bush won. The people have spoken. With that being said....

Bitch at the image.
http://img42.exs.cx/img42/5192/bush5.gif

Forty

11-03-2004, 08:50 PM

The dollar is at its weakest against the Euro than anytime since the EU started. Go figure/shrug

Yeah, I dunno...that's what I was told. Not sure what they were comparing it too.

Forty

11-03-2004, 08:55 PM

/shrug Bush won.

Yeah...but sometimes I would who we really did vote for. I keep getting the impression he's actually a PNAC puppet. /shrug

Azis

11-03-2004, 09:09 PM

I could have just said what was on my mind, but I went for the

omgrofllolerskates its an 8 year old image macro instead.

Torrid

11-04-2004, 12:32 AM

Grats on the win for censorship, big brother, big business, the wealth gap, less rights, bad science, homophobia, the union of church and state, and war over false pretense.

Wheres a good place to live in Canada?

Tilea

11-04-2004, 12:37 AM

Sorry - no exagerations. It was an american organization (I forget the name, some american health something or other) that said the death toll of unnecessary (ie non military) casualties in Iraq is now around 100,000. What, you really think the US is dropping precision bombs that are only hitting what they're supposed to? The US bombed canadian troops in Afghan for no reason. They also shot down a British plane in Iraq. And you find it hard to believe that iraqi civilians are dying by the tens of thousands?

They bomb when and where they want and yes, according to a US SOURCE, 100,000 Iraqi's that deserved that no less than the americans in NY did are now dead. Yes, it really sucked that 3000 americans died on that day. But what did it mean to Bush? Yippe me I can invade Iraq now, daddy will be so proud! I'll just lie about WMD and ties to al queda!!! Yay!!

How many Iraqi's will thank the US for what they did in the future? Quite honestly, in my opinion - none. They didn't want to be saved. They're actually sick and fucking tired of the US coming over and bombing the shit out of their neighbourhoods. Take a look at what is really happening over there. Dead US soldiers being towed behind cars in the streets and hung from street posts. I'm sorry, but they're not grateful. And for what? What is Iraq all about? Oil, greed and lies. It's not even about 9/11, Bush was told by his own people that Iraq had nothing to do with it.

Is Bush the same as Hitler? No, of course not. But he's the worst thing since, and some of you actually support that.

I found a link to the 100,000 thing, just in case you really thought I grabbed that number out of the air..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1338749,00.html

Sachiiel

11-04-2004, 03:14 AM

ead bush supporters. thx.

Aradil

11-04-2004, 06:16 AM

ahh I see where you get your information now. I understand why you think such crap. The guardian is one of the most Anti-bush, anti-iraq, anti-american organizations out there. They actually had the gaul to call for the assassination of Bush, if any American news organization had done the same thing to Blair the US and Britian would probably be at war.

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

That link is also from an Anti-bush site, but at least they are being realistic.

Let's also say just for arguments sake that the casualties were 100k, they are not that high, but just to argue. Let's ask the 400k people we have found in mass graves if they think what the US is doing in Iraq is right, oh thats right we cant ask them, Saddam killed them.

Eomer

11-04-2004, 06:20 AM

Yeah, I dunno...that's what I was told. Not sure what they were comparing it too.

Uhhhhmmmm, the Euro? :D Not sure what you mean with that. Just to give a little bit of an example, about a year and a half ago when the CDN dollar was at it's lowest against the US, it was worth about 62 cents or so. Right now it's just a touch under 83 cents, and it's setting 12 to 13 year highs every week or two. The last time the Canadian dollar was worth the same or more than the US dollar was, you guessed it, Vietnam.

Let's also say just for arguments sake that the casualties were 100k, they are not that high, but just to argue. Let's ask the 400k people we have found in mass graves if they think what the US is doing in Iraq is right, oh thats right we cant ask them, Saddam killed them.

So basically, you're saying the US is only 1/4 as evil as Saddam? Score!

Wheres a good place to live in Canada?

Pretty much anywhere, depends on your taste! Get a job with Bioware and move to Edmonton!

Argonah

11-04-2004, 06:45 AM

Not sure on the accuracy of this, but it made me laugh!

I've been told it's accurate, but I haven't researched the issue.

http://www.eluid.org/index.php?goto=voting

Also interesting...

http://www.oliverwillis.com/node/view/1152

And...

https://voteprotect.org/index.php?display=EIRMapState&state=Ohio&cat=ALL&tab=ALL

Daisiee

11-04-2004, 07:51 AM

The US bombed canadian troops in Afghan for no reason. They also shot down a British plane in Iraq. And you find it hard to believe that iraqi civilians are dying by the tens of thousands?
Thousands of Iraqi civilians have been killed in the U.S. government’s newest military adventure — estimates, difficult or impossible to independently verify due to chaos inside Iraq, range from 7,000 to 10,000 dead innocents. Add the number of Iraqi forced conscripts who died in battle, and the number climbs dramatically higher.

Forty

11-04-2004, 07:52 AM

ahh I see where you get your information now. I understand why you think such crap. http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

That link is also from an Anti-bush site, but at least they are being realistic.

Aradil, you really need to learn to read below the headlines and first few lines.

The Guardian didn't do the survey just reported a survey.

"The research was led by Les Roberts of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore."

Maybe you can give Les Roberts a call and ask him about it.

Iraqbodycount.net, as I understand, only shows the numbers reported in the media so I would question it being too realistic.

Thuggo

11-04-2004, 08:18 AM

Fuck you Tilea. I vote my convictions. It's my right to choose who I wish when I wish. You have NO right whatsoever to call ME (a Bush supporter) out like this.

You did say this on another board right Eli?

Well.. we're now at 193 to 112.. but you can add 55 to Kerry's total cause my worthless state can't pull it's head out of it's liberal ass.

How's that for partisanship? :-)

What exactly makes what she said wrong and what you said OK?

I would call for calm but I think people need to work out their frustrations on this, me included.

Bush gives turds a bad name. The man is stupid, and I don't just mean Wal-Mart patron stupid I mean lacking-in-that-warm-wet-light-in-his-eyes-that-most-humans-have stupid. I inwardly cringe whenever I see him speaking in public and actually cover my eyes when I see that he's about to address foreigners. It's bad enough to do it in front of us but don't make the rest of us look like retards to the entire world.

Bush is two faced. Kerry was accused of being a flip-flopper but damn if Bush doesn't take the cake. We need a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage and civil unions, but I'm not opposed to civil unions and never have been even though I did just say that. I don't want to be a nation-builder, well except in Iraq. The terrorists hate the freedoms we enjoy, so let's create laws that let us monitor what you read and wire tap your house with no warrants. We are going to find the people who knocked down these tower and bring them to justice, but I don't know where Bin Laden is and I don't care, what I never said that I didn't know where he was and that I didn't care we are firmly committed to his capture. We are going to restore integrity to the White House, Ok Cheney call your friends for a huge energy conference but keep the proceedings secret, Powell take this grad students report from 1994 and use it as the basis for our reason to invade Iraq, Rummy set up secret prisons at US military bases around the world so we can hold people we capture and never charge them. We are winning the war on terrorism and America is safer, even though we haven't made any convictions, we managed to increase recruiting of terrorist organizations, and numerous people are sneaking box cutters past our security just to show they can.

The emperor isn't just naked, he's a gibbering feces throwing monkey.

Tilea

11-04-2004, 09:42 AM

As Forty said, the actual Iraqi casualties of 100,000 were calculated by an independant, US lead team - not some anti-bush site. The Anti-Bush sites are just all too happy to post those results.

I understand people find it hard to believe that the war in Iraq has killed so many civilians, I do too. But it's true. Your man, your president, launched a war on Iraq for reasons that did not exist. They lied because they had a personal agenda in that country and it has killed 100,000 people JUST like you and me. People who were just living out their lives, bothering nobody.

If I was a Bush supporter, I wouldn't want to believe that either. And now you've given him another 4 years.

Tarissa

11-04-2004, 11:18 AM

I noticed something hilarious yesterday, but it got changed. If you went to CNN's site and went to an election link, there was this picture of bush and laura. If you chose to save the image, it said "asshole.jpg".

Around 6 hours later it said "bushlaura47" or something or other. Damn it!

If you don't believe me...

Argonah

11-04-2004, 11:24 AM

http://www.moveon.org/censure/caughtonvideo/

This rules
I've watched this like 5 times, it just rocks on so many levels

Comedy gold

BurnemWizfyre

11-04-2004, 11:54 AM

You really need to get a grasp on reality, there was this thing called the Holocaust over 1 million jews were executed, not killed or died in battle....EXECUTED. I dont care how you slice it you may think a death is a death but to me execution is a whole fucking lot different then dying in battle. We have not executed people in iraq (well now i cant in good conscious say that w/out the doubt that something on some battle field might have been a shady killing, it happens) but we sure as fuck havent executed people and everyone knew about it, let alone 1 million. How many people do you think Saddam had executed, what about castro. What you seem to realize is that Bush has never executed people like those names ive stated, you see if he did that we could have him jailed, you try jailing a dicator for having people murdered and you will end up being one of the ones executed.

Viet Nam was alot fucking worse then this war, can you tell me why we were there (if your going to look it up, please try and distinquish between the lies, truths and political reasons that are real and fake, cause they existed with that war just as much as this war) the casuality numbers in that war is just a tad bit bigger oh and they have a fucking wall that prooves the numbers, we had as much right to be there as we do in Iraq, yet bush is so bad, get a fucking clue.

on a side note, ive said i dont support bush or kerry and i believed no matter who won we all lose, however comparing him to hitler and or saying he is the worse thing since is sheer fucking stupidity.

Zarxen

11-04-2004, 12:33 PM

Wheres a good place to live in Canada?

Many places are decent, our politician's suck aswell though.

Scrith

11-04-2004, 12:37 PM

I think one of the reasons for the Hitler comparisons is the depleted uranium issue in Iraq, which many studies have shown have been responsible for raising radiation levels there to the point where it may not be possible for people to live (or fight) in Iraq for much longer. Already, some countries are considering pulling out (or not sending additional troops) because their soldiers are becoming sick...so you have to wonder about the poor people who are stuck living there (you know, the ones Bush is trying to save).

So, in effect, we've invaded a foreign country against the will of the United Nations (invoking the wrath of the world), killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians, and polluted the country to the extent that it is no longer safe to live there (but it's still safe to take the oil).

I still don't think the Hitler comparison is appropriate, myself. Hitler was motivated by hatred. Bush, and the people who control him, are motivated by greed.

Kaneis

11-04-2004, 12:38 PM

What, you really think the US is dropping precision bombs that are only hitting what they're supposed to? The US bombed canadian troops in Afghan for no reason. They also shot down a British plane in Iraq. And you find it hard to believe that iraqi civilians are dying by the tens of thousands?

HOLY SHIT!!!

They shot down all of one coalition plane??? /gasp One bomb went astray??? OMG!

The first year of OEF, we dropped over 25,000 bombs and flew over 50,00 mission. One bomb goes astray and one friendly aircraft is shot down (which was their own fault). Fuck me! That makes Bush a Hitler warmonger all of a sudden?

You want a comparison, look at Korea, Vietnam, or WWII and tell me how many friendly fire casualties we had. Did that make those presidents at that time Hitlers?

I've been to Afghanistan and Iraq and I voted for Bush. There's was no question. We didn't need a weak, limp wristed, fair weather opinion president in office... which is all I saw out of Kerry (who looks like Herman Munster).

Thuggo

11-04-2004, 12:53 PM

HOLY SHIT!!!

They shot down all of one coalition plane??? /gasp One bomb went astray??? OMG!

The first year of OEF, we dropped over 25,000 bombs and flew over 50,00 mission. One bomb goes astray and one friendly aircraft is shot down (which was their own fault). Fuck me! That makes Bush a Hitler warmonger all of a sudden?

You want a comparison, look at Korea, Vietnam, or WWII and tell me how many friendly fire casualties we had. Did that make those presidents at that time Hitlers?

One bomb? Is that a fact? Are you saying we haven't accidently killed Iraqi civilians? I don' t think Bush is another Hitler, but he is a damn incompetent moron.

I've been to Afghanistan and Iraq and I voted for Bush. There's was no question. We didn't need a weak, limp wristed, fair weather opinion president in office... which is all I saw out of Kerry (who looks like Herman Munster).

So you voted for the chimp look-alike two-faced lying dolt of a wanna-be warrior that celebrates a national tragedy as the best thing to ever happen to him. Good fucking job!

Kaneis

11-04-2004, 01:17 PM

Lothbah

11-04-2004, 01:33 PM

Most of Bush's supporters in the exit polls said that their reason for voting the way they did was "Moral Values". I.E. they voted for him because of issues that have no effect on them or people they care about (banning abortions and gay marriages), rather than issues that do directly affect them (healthcare, SS, all the trailerpark supporters on welfare).

GG la~

Elidroth

11-04-2004, 01:35 PM

The dollar is at its weakest against the Euro than anytime since the EU started. Go figure/shrug

Wrong. It's actually at it's best since 9/11. Immediately following the attack of 9/11 the Euro was trading at 1.6 USD.

Thuggo

11-04-2004, 01:46 PM

Oh I'm not talking saying we haven't killed innocent civilians. I was just addressing those 2 instances that Tilea was using as basis for an argument. As for the death tolls, there are hundreds of site out there, each one touting vastly different death tolls, depending on which side of the political fence you sit on.

How many of his own people did Sadam gas? Wasn't it 500K+ to 1 million? But I suppose we should leave someone like that in power.

No, he did not gas 500k to 1 million. Several kurdish villages were gassed by Saddam Hussein as punishment for siding with Iran against him. This of course happened while he was our ally. Reagan went so far as to say that Iraq's use of chemical weapons wouldn't hamper our relations with them. Reagan was fine with him being a murdering bastard, as long as he was our murdering bastard. Shit wasn't Reagan in fact the Great God Ra to you connie's? How could he possibley be wrong?!?!

Throw the "OMG, where are WMDs?" argument out there too. Do you honestly think if we let weapons inspectors into the US to look for ours, do you honestly think they'd find any? No.

Yes, I do. It's on the web and the DOD is making no secrets about the fact they are destroying our chemical weapons stockpile.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/cbw/cw.htm

http://www.cma.army.mil/

But hell where are the Iraqi WMD's. Here's a map point them out to me.

http://www.defenselink.mil/issues/iraq/iraq.gif

And what is a national tragedy that Bush is supposedly using as his promotional?

Hi, do you remember 9/11. You might have missed it because I think it happened during your morning recess. Was it a coincidence that the Republican convention was in New York? Or that "pre 9/11 mindset" is one of the favorite catchprhases of Bushites. Or that Bush was a weak an inept president who did all of jack shit for 9 months before 9/11 but then somehow manged to find his voice on that day. It's easy to be a war time president, keep people afraid and give them victories and that's what Dubya likes things, easy. Because he failed in every challenging endeavor in his life. He was a former coke head turned failed business man and born again nutcase that ran on his Daddy's name.

Elidroth

11-04-2004, 01:49 PM

How many Iraqi's will thank the US for what they did in the future? Quite honestly, in my opinion - none. They didn't want to be saved. They're actually sick and fucking tired of the US coming over and bombing the shit out of their neighbourhoods.

Congratulations on buying into the view of things the media gives you. Of course they don't spin it to show only the negative side of things. Oh wait.. yes they do! If they showed you what was REALLY going on there, unbiased, you know.. REPORTING the news instead of CREATING the news to fit their opinions, you'd see a wildly different picture.

Of course there are the people who don't want us there, however they fail to show you the literally hundreds of thousands of people who HAVE been thanking the troops. The women and children who are actually going to school again, the troops breaking ground and building 34 new schools and mosques. THIRTY-FOUR. A good friend of mine just got back from Iraq (he's a USMC engineer) who said the picture being painted here is nowhere close to reality. Do you think it's any surprise that some 90% of the ballots cast by active US military personel on the ground in Iraq were for Bush?

Elidroth

11-04-2004, 02:01 PM

What exactly makes what she said wrong and what you said OK?

How about.. I'm a US citizen and she's not. How about what I said was in reference to the fact that though I vote conservative, my vote in the Presidential election is worthless because my state is so hardline liberal. Let's see.. what else.. OH yeah.. there is that little Hitler reference too.

Hmm.. Hitler and company kill 6 million Jews, 4 million Polish, etc.. but Bush is Hitler now? Are you people insane? He's nowhere near even the next worst person since Hitler even if you believe the numbers she quotes. Anyone remember a guy named Joseph Stalin? How about Kruschev or Brezhnev? Anyone remember Slobodan Milosevic?

But Bush is the next Hitler. Idiots.

Kaneis

11-04-2004, 02:01 PM

Hi, do you remember 9/11. You might have missed it because I think it happened during your morning recess. Was it a coincidence that the Republican convention was in New York? Or that "pre 9/11 mindset" is one of the favorite catchprhases of Bushites. Or that Bush was a weak an inept president who did all of jack shit for 9 months before 9/11 but then somehow manged to find his voice on that day. It's easy to be a war time president, keep people afraid and give them victories and that's what Dubya likes things, easy. Because he failed in every challenging endeavor in his life. He was a former coke head turned failed business man and born again nutcase that ran on his Daddy's name.

I'm well aware of what 9/11 was. It's the reason I'm in the military: to protect your right to bitch about the president. I was making sure you were talking about it and not the war on Iraq.

And I guess me and nearly 60 million others are dumbasses for voting for "failure of a president named Bush". /shrug
Whatever the case, I don't work for Kerry, so I'm happy.

Argonah

11-04-2004, 02:04 PM

And I guess me and nearly 60 million others are dumbasses for voting for "failure of a president named Bush".

Glad thats finally cleared up! =D

Thuggo

11-04-2004, 02:17 PM

I'm well aware of what 9/11 was. It's the reason I'm in the military: to protect your right to bitch about the president. I was making sure you were talking about it and not the war on Iraq.

Well thanks, that's why I pay my taxes. It doesn't mean your opinion is somehow more valid.

And I guess me and nearly 60 million others are dumbasses for voting for "failure of a president named Bush". /shrug
Whatever the case, I don't work for Kerry, so I'm happy.

I notice you compeltely ignored the maps, links, and facts I posted. But I do like the "We maybe dumb but there's more of us" slant to your post. Thanks.

Thuggo

11-04-2004, 02:24 PM

How about.. I'm a US citizen and she's not. How about what I said was in reference to the fact that though I vote conservative, my vote in the Presidential election is worthless because my state is so hardline liberal. Let's see.. what else.. OH yeah.. there is that little Hitler reference too.

Hmm.. Hitler and company kill 6 million Jews, 4 million Polish, etc.. but Bush is Hitler now? Are you people insane? He's nowhere near even the next worst person since Hitler even if you believe the numbers she quotes. Anyone remember a guy named Joseph Stalin? How about Kruschev or Brezhnev? Anyone remember Slobodan Milosevic?

But Bush is the next Hitler. Idiots.

You said that your liberal state had it's head up it's ass not exactly a flattering endorsement of the other side. She can't comment about US politics? So you don't ever comment about foreign politics or their leaders? Nothing about France? Nothing about Russia or the character of their leaders?

Elidroth

11-04-2004, 02:33 PM

You said that your liberal state had it's head up it's ass not exactly a flattering endorsement of the other side. She can't comment about US politics? So you don't ever comment about foreign politics or their leaders? Nothing about France? Nothing about Russia or the character of their leaders?

Of course I do. Everyone does. I don't recall ever calling their people a bunch of idiots for voting their beliefs.

Thuggo

11-04-2004, 02:46 PM

Of course I do. Everyone does. I don't recall ever calling their people a bunch of idiots for voting their beliefs.

But you did say the people in your state had their head up their ass.

Forty

11-04-2004, 02:46 PM

Hitler and company kill 6 million Jews, 4 million Polish, etc.. but Bush is Hitler now? Are you people insane?

Hitler was driven by nationalism and racial issues that said German's were the superior race and that everyone else should die....more or less.

What was one of the motivating factor's he used to convince his people he was doing the right thing? Fear of being attacked.

Bush is driven by nationalism and greed issues that state the United States is and should be THE military and economic power.

What was one of the motivating factor's he used to convince his people he was doing the right thing? Fear of being attacked.

And both used the military to advance their beliefs.

I think you can see how they are making the comparison.

I personally think one of the smarter things the Republicans did, in terms of strategy, was to ensure that the Gay Marriage props were on this ballot.

Forty

11-04-2004, 02:53 PM

But you did say the people in your state had their head up their ass.

He's a skirt wearin' flip flopper.

Forty

11-04-2004, 02:55 PM

And by the way....please don't forget the election isn't technically over yet until every last vote is counted. Three states have yet to make the final call.

Kaneis

11-04-2004, 03:25 PM

Well thanks, that's why I pay my taxes. It doesn't mean your opinion is somehow more valid.

No, but it helped Bush get elected. ;)

I notice you compeltely ignored the maps, links, and facts I posted. But I do like the "We maybe dumb but there's more of us" slant to your post. Thanks.

And what I was talking about with the WMDs was this: if we were in Iraq's shoes and had inspectors coming to our country looking for nuclear weapons, we'd easily be able to hide them and they could search for years and never find any. I'm well aware of where the US's storage facilities are and where the nuclear firing sites are. We have no reason to hide them because we are under the jaded opinion that we will never be attacked in our own country, which made 9/11 such a slap in the face of the general public. Ollie North mentioned Bin Laden many years ago as a severe threat to the nation. At the time, no one took it seriously enough.

Qaediin

11-04-2004, 03:38 PM

Hi Kane! You are wrong Eli. Let me go look it up. The euro is stronger than the US dollar atm. I think Dean hit on something though. Besides that screech that sounded like he sat no his balls, Dean did make a valid point at one time. He said i am trying to get that gun carrying pick up truck driving southern male white vote. Something to that effect.

The south is mainly about God, Guns and Gays. Democrats have done poorly in the south in federal elections ever since LBJ gave civil rights to the blacks. How dare those federals free our blacks again!

If we could just integrate a DNA into those backwoods hick fucks we would be doing alot better. Republican party would crumble. Hoho.

Kaneis

11-04-2004, 03:40 PM

Kaneis

11-04-2004, 03:48 PM

The south is mainly about God, Guns and Gays. Democrats have done poorly in the south in federal elections ever since LBJ gave civil rights to the blacks. How dare those federals free our blacks again!

If we could just integrate a DNA into those backwoods hick fucks we would be doing alot better. Republican party would crumble. Hoho.

Hey Qeadiin!

And I don't know what part of the south you lived in but I don't ever recall seeing a gay presence. There's too much hate in the south to be openly gay (with the exception of Florida and certain parts of Atlanta). Hell, half the south can get over racial hatred. You think they can accept gays? :eek:

It's guns, God and NASCAR!

Lonskils

11-04-2004, 04:12 PM

he meant hate/fear of gay

Kaneis

11-04-2004, 04:29 PM

he meant hate/fear of gay

You're absolutely correct. I lived in the south for 22 years. Now that I've been away for quite some time, it amazes me when I visit my folks just how backwoods people's beliefs and views are there. The attitudes and culture haven't changed at all in many years.

Lonskils

11-04-2004, 04:43 PM

i purpose this

Azis

11-04-2004, 05:47 PM

How many "Civilians" have been killed, that actually were not civilians at all?

Any U.S. Military member that intentionally kills an unarmed civilian would be brought up on charges under the UCMJ(uniform code of military justice).

Scrith

11-04-2004, 05:58 PM

Vinilaa

11-04-2004, 06:08 PM

hehe :o

Qaediin

11-04-2004, 06:14 PM

Lons got it. Sorry didnt make that clearer. Didnt mean a majority of the south was gay. The hate there is freakin thick in parts though.

Some of my family is from Texas around Houston. They belonged to the KKK at one point or still do...not real sure. They arent the gun toting inbreds you would picture. My cousin is a teacher and her husband is a engineer for the state of Texas DoT. They wouldnt talk to me when i brought my wife to a family reunion a few years ago. Since some of ya might not know my wife is Korean. She was pregnant at the time and the looks i got could have killed~. They havent spoken to me since then actually. Think after all these years that alot of hatred would have watered down a bit...perhaps it has though. I dont live in the south so i wouldnt know=o.

Tarissa

11-04-2004, 07:36 PM

I like that Lonskils, makes sense.

In Jesusland they can make it illegal to be gay, not teach evolution in schools, make slavery legal again, only let rich white men vote, hand out a machine gun to everyone the day they are born, put a copy of the 10 commandments in every courthouse, burn anyone that isn't Christian, and let Rupert Murdoch control the only news tv channel people are allowed to watch.

Sounds like George W. Bush's America to me. :)

What's sad is the majority of the population would probably see nothing wrong with this. Well, besides the slavery thing. BUT IF THEY DIDN'T LIKE IT THEY CAN JUST GO TO THE UNITED STATES OF CANADA BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT EM HERE ANYWAY AM I RITE ELI??

Forty

11-04-2004, 07:48 PM

It's guns, God and NASCAR!

You forgot spring football and football season. The Bear would surely be disappointed.

Forty

11-04-2004, 08:03 PM

Democrats have done poorly in the south in federal elections ever since LBJ gave civil rights to the blacks. How dare those federals free our blacks again!

Easy, there big guy....less then 10% of the population could afford a slave much less thought it was right. But you can't fight money when you ain't got none. Slavery or no slavery, it didn't matter much as it didn't affect the average Southerner. Slavery wasn't even in the Top 10 issues the South had with you damn yankee bastards. You had your chance to get rid of us 140 some odd years ago, now it's bitch moan whine...

And what most Southerners haven't figured out is that Bush is a yankee son of a damn yankee carpetbagger.

Joking Joking....sorta...

he is a damn yankee though.

BurnemWizfyre

11-04-2004, 08:31 PM

I dont care for bush, i personally think hes a moron and cant stand him. Kerry flip flops over his breakfast cereal, not someone i want in charge. Both candidates were poor, im eagerly awaiting 2008 elections cause hopefully we will have at least 1 good candidate when 2 new people run for president.

That being said, the Hitler comment was the most ignorant fucking shit ive ever heard in my gdamn life. Millions of jews were executed by this man, and millions more were killed by the war he started. There are countless of other men from all over the world that were in power of countries that ordered executions of 500,000 or more people. Saddam himself had 500,000 or more put to death, yet hes a saint compared to Bush, sorry but the comparison dont exist no matter how you try and fucking slice it, and if you honestly believe hes the worse thing to come along since Hitler you are a ignorant fucking cunt.

Hate Bush for all i care, call him a moron, point and laugh and be upset he was elected go for it dont bother me, but compare the man to hitler and say he is the worse thing since Hitler and ima call you out for being a ignorant fucking cunt.

Torrid

11-04-2004, 09:17 PM

Bush essentialy used every stance guaranteed to get a vote. He doesn't care about the issues. He played the game to win to further the goals of the rich. He used this country's homophobia, religion, short sighted tax cuts, and fear of terrorism against us.

Well played, Mr. President.

Elidroth

11-04-2004, 09:19 PM

You are wrong Eli. Let me go look it up. The euro is stronger than the US dollar atm.

I'm aware the Euro is worth more than the dollar. Just after 9/11, the Euro was worth 1.61 US dollars. Currently it's at about 1.27 US dollars per Euro. This is the strongest the US dollar has been against the Euro in over 3 years.

Tilea

11-04-2004, 09:20 PM

HOLY SHIT!!!

They shot down all of one coalition plane??? /gasp One bomb went astray??? OMG!

I've been to Afghanistan and Iraq and I voted for Bush. There's was no question. We didn't need a weak, limp wristed, fair weather opinion president in office... which is all I saw out of Kerry (who looks like Herman Munster).

Get a clue Kaneis. The bomb that was dropped on Canadian troops did not go astray. It hit it's target. It's target WAS the Canadian troops. If you were "there" you should already know this. Get it?

And as for "only" shooting down one coalition plane. Iraq didn't HAVE any planes TO shoot down so uhhh... it's more that just a little oversight don't you think?

Good job voting for Bush, glad to hear you think it's acceptable to have a half whit that just caused the murders of 100,000 Iraqi's as your president. Enjoy however many needless deaths he causes within the next 4 years, cause it's partly on your hands.

Elidroth

11-04-2004, 09:23 PM

DIDN'T LIKE IT THEY CAN JUST GO TO THE UNITED STATES OF CANADA BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT EM HERE ANYWAY AM I RITE ELI??

Grats on not coming close to what I was saying. I was commenting on people saying they were leaving the country because of Bush getting re-elected. If your reaction to this is to pick up and run.. BUH BYE!

Thuggo

11-04-2004, 09:27 PM

The south is mainly about God, Guns and Gays.

It's guns, God and NASCAR!

Jeff Gordon's gay!!!!

Tilea

11-04-2004, 09:27 PM

Oh, and I wasn't saying Tilea was wrong. It's a war and casualties are expected. Tragic? Yes. I hate to see it happen. But the arguement made it sound like our ineptitude as a military/president was the cause of it, and the 2 obscure references weren't enough to validate that claim.

Actually, that's exactly what I'm saying.

You're going to argue Bush's ineptitude? He lied about the reasons for invading Iraq. There were no WMD, there were no ties to Al Queda. The FBI knew this. Bush didn't care, he wanted to go anyways so he lied.

Shortly after the Bush administration went into office, Colin Powell said publically on TV that Iraq did not posess WMD and that they were not a threat. Then he changed his mind out of the blue? Don't you think someone wouldn't do a total turn around unless they were absolutely right? So where are these WMD? Where are these mystery mobile trucks pumping out chemical weapons? Oh yeah, they never existed.

And yes, I'm sorry to say but it is ineptitude that has lead to the casualties in Iraq. You can find a couple thousand "acceptable" if you want, but 100,000? Sorry but that's ineptitude at it's glorified best.

Daisiee

11-04-2004, 09:28 PM

Thuggo your such a twat. Its F.A.G. - Fans Against Gordon.

Forty

11-04-2004, 09:28 PM

Iraq didn't HAVE any planes TO shoot down so uhhh...

Well, they did send 125 combat planes to Iran during the first go around...for safe keeping. Not sure who "owns" them now though. But yes, they didn;t launch any aircraft this time around.

Tilea

11-04-2004, 09:31 PM

Hate Bush for all i care, call him a moron, point and laugh and be upset he was elected go for it dont bother me, but compare the man to hitler and say he is the worse thing since Hitler and ima call you out for being a ignorant fucking cunt.

:o

Daisiee

11-04-2004, 09:51 PM

Actually, that's exactly what I'm saying.

You're going to argue Bush's ineptitude? He lied about the reasons for invading Iraq. There were no WMD, there were no ties to Al Queda. The FBI knew this. Bush didn't care, he wanted to go anyways so he lied.

Shortly after the Bush administration went into office, Colin Powell said publically on TV that Iraq did not posess WMD and that they were not a threat. Then he changed his mind out of the blue? Don't you think someone wouldn't do a total turn around unless they were absolutely right? So where are these WMD? Where are these mystery mobile trucks pumping out chemical weapons? Oh yeah, they never existed.

And yes, I'm sorry to say but it is ineptitude that has lead to the casualties in Iraq. You can find a couple thousand "acceptable" if you want, but 100,000? Sorry but that's ineptitude at it's glorified best.
Will you please find a link that documents the 100,000 dead? I went to the website that Forty listed and it only showed from 13,000 to 16,000.

Oh this was pulled from druzzil-ro.com. Its a letter from a national guardsman currently stationed in Iraq. Now maybe its just me but I don't see a part in the letter where it says the average day in Iraq entails some of the following.

drive around in tanks and shoot the fuck out of anything at moves, including babies, old people, and well basically anything at moves.
keeping tally marks on our helmets and / or vehicles for how many innocent people we killed that day.
we take innocent civilian workers and gruesomely execute them in cold blood then air the tape for the world to see.
hang the bodies of our fallen enemies from light polls or better yet drag them behind a HUMVEE at thirty-five miles per hour.
bomb our allies troops for the shear joy of watching a bomb explode.
shooting down an allies plane because we had nothing better to do that afternoon.

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">This is a letter from Ray Reynolds, a medic in the Iowa Army National Guard, serving in Iraq:

As I head off to Baghdad for the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I wanted to say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They have done a very poor job of covering everything that has happened. I am sorry that I have not been able to visit all of you during my two week leave back home. And just so you can rest at night knowing something is happening in Iraq that is noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to you. This is the list of things that has happened in Iraq recently:

(Please share it with your friends and compare it to the version that your paper is producing.)

* Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations.
* School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.
* Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and rid of the weapons stored there so education can occur.
* The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off-loaded from ships faster.
* The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.
* Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq.
* The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war.
* 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35% before the war.
* Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are in place.
* Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.
* Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.
* Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.
* Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with US soldiers.
* Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever.
* Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to prevent the spread of germs.
* An interim constitution has been signed.
* Girls are allowed to attend school.
* Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years.

Don't believe for one second that these people do not want us there. I have met many, many people from Iraq that want us there, and in a bad way. They say they will never see the freedoms we talk about but they hope their children will. We are doing a good job in Iraq and I challenge anyone, anywhere to dispute me on these facts. So If you happen to run into John Kerry, be sure to give him my email address and send him to Denison, Iowa. This soldier will set him straight. If you are like me and very disgusted with how this period of rebuilding has been portrayed, email this to a friend and let them know there are good things happening.

Ray Reynolds, SFC
Iowa Army National Guard </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Forty

11-04-2004, 11:19 PM

Will you please find a link that documents the 100,000 dead? I went to the website that Forty listed and it only showed from 13,000 to 16,000.

She referred to this link...survey done by Les Roberts of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1338749,00.html

That's a great letter...but it still fails to address a few very simple questions. And as of yet, no one that is a hard-core Republican (not so hard-core for that matter) has been able to answer. So please please please someone help this old cranky Texan out and come up with some good stuff. No, because they said so or because I feel we did the right thing stuff. Please.

1. Why are we in Iraq?
It's been shown, by our own intell, that the wmd were destroyed in 1991. This was the primary reason the Bush Admin. wanted to go in, so what gives?

2. They posed a terrorist threat and we are safer now!! Or really, how so?
Hmm, same documents that say the wmd were destroyed also say Saddam posed no threat to the United States.
Iran has also shown to have been further along in terms of wmd (nukes) and openly admitted they allowed terrorist to run in and out of their borders.
If terrorism was surely on the minds of the Bush Admin, then why didn't we send the 140,000 into Afghanstan and hunt the bastards down? Instead, we have what, maybe 14,000 plus locals and get treated to Halloween video tape of Bin Laden laughing at us. Not my idea of "safer".

Well, they haven't attacked us again!! Ok, got me there. You're right, the Taliban and OBL haven't attacked US mainland soil in three years. But remember it took them 11 years between WTC attacks. And as far as I know, OBL isn't in Iraq. So, umm, why are we?

3. Ok, so we haven't found wmd YET, but Saddam was an evil bastard and needed to be removed.
Hmm, ok, true true...What about North Korea? What about most of the countries in Africa? Lots more people are dead and dying that sure could use more immediate help than Iraq. Hell, half of Africa could have been painted red, white and blue by now. Besides, helping the people of Iraq wasn't the main reason Bush wanted to go in.

So please, humor me, put you're thinking caps on and respond with some actual posted material that can help win me over. No, "because W said so" responses please.

Lydia

11-05-2004, 03:57 AM

1. Why are we in Iraq?

115 billion barrels of oil.

http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_english/publications/energy_reviews/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/pdf/table_of_proved_oil_reserves_2004.pdf
http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_english/publications/energy_reviews/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/pdf/table_of_world_oil_consumption_2004.pdf

Vinilaa

11-05-2004, 04:26 AM

Hi Lydia! :love:

Torrid

11-05-2004, 08:29 AM

Well, to me, going to war over something that proved to be wrong, regardless of intent or outcome, is VERY VERY bad. Frankly I am concerned that there isn't a lot more... well, concern for this. Wars often have this little problem of getting out of hand.

Hell, if we go to war just because their leader is an asshole, why stop with Iraq? There are literaly dozens of countries with leaders that enjoy some nice genocide.

Funny thing, I was watching a program about Stalin the other day. This guy killed 27 million of his own people. Yet if you asked Russians today what they think of him, many will tell you he turned Russia into a super power and was, over all, good for the country.

It's NOT a black and white issue. You don't go around liberating all the countries you think have it bad. Forcing someone to do what is best for them, even if it has a positive outcome, is not always the best choice.

This is not to say I don't think military action should never be used. On the contrary, I believe good needs to actively stop evil. The thing we need to keep in mind is, that the great struggle is NOT battling the evil itself, but rather not unwittingly doing it's bidding in the process. Going to war over imagined evidence is a lost battle.

Ktul

11-05-2004, 08:48 AM

Ktul

11-05-2004, 09:04 AM

Damnit, I missed Lons's 4th page post! Holy shit I am new old image posting king!

Lonskils

11-05-2004, 01:07 PM

/point and laugh

Eomer

11-05-2004, 02:20 PM

i purpose this

LOL lons, that's a good one. Honestly, most Canadians would probably be alright with that :D. We get California anyway, we need a vacation spot. Maybe we should get Mexico in on the action. Thing is, we would have to move some of the southern parts of BC and Alberta into Jesusland as well (there's polygamists down there: http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/polygamy/polygamy_printer.html, coincidentally Kokanee beer is also brewed nearby in Creston, with crisp cold glacier water, enjoy your filthy polygamist beer!).

How many "Civilians" have been killed, that actually were not civilians at all?

Any U.S. Military member that intentionally kills an unarmed civilian would be brought up on charges under the UCMJ(uniform code of military justice).

First question, probably a lot. There's no question that the insurgents like to hide amongst civilians if they can, and they don't carry dog tags or little "Insurgency Membership ID" cards. Does that make it right that tens of thousands of innocents are also dieing?

As far as your second sentence, no one here is saying they are. Problem with a 500lb bomb dropped on a house is that it doesn't much care if there was a family of 10 living next door, or down the fucking block for that matter.

I'm aware the Euro is worth more than the dollar. Just after 9/11, the Euro was worth 1.61 US dollars. Currently it's at about 1.27 US dollars per Euro. This is the strongest the US dollar has been against the Euro in over 3 years.

Uh, Elidroth? Those stats are goofy or something. Pretty sure the US dollar is at an all-time low against the Euro and right now, and 5 or 10 year lows against most other major currencies (euro is about 5 years old).

http://www.campusprogram.com/reference/en/wikipedia/e/eu/euro.html#Euro%20exchange%20rate

After the introduction of the euro, its exchange rate against other currencies, especially the U.S. dollar, declined heavily. At its introduction in 1999, the euro was worth USD1.18; by late 2000 it had fallen to below USD0.85. It then began what at the time was thought to be a recovery; by the beginning of 2001 it had risen to USD0.95. It declined again, finally reaching a low of below USD0.84 in July 2001. The currency then began to recover against the U.S. dollar. In the wake of U.S. corporate scandals, the two currencies reached parity on July 15, 2002, and by the end of 2002 the euro had reached USD1.04 as it climbed further. There is speculation that this strength relative to the dollar might encourage the use of the euro as an alternative reserve currency. On May 23, 2003, the euro surpassed its initial trading value for the first time as it again hit USD1.18, and in the last days of December 2003 the euro even climbed above USD1.26, the maximum exchange rate since its introduction. Part of the euro's strength is thought to be due to more attractive interest rates in Europe than in the United States.

So, late 2000 the election of George Bush it was at a nearly alltime low of .85 US. 4 Years later it is 1.2950 US. That's an increase in the value of the Euro of 52% in comparison to the US dollar.

Will you please find a link that documents the 100,000 dead? I went to the website that Forty listed and it only showed from 13,000 to 16,000.

I did, and so did one or two others. Go back and read them if you want. The site that Forty listed only counts those listed in the media, and admits it is not an accurate count either, and says he's not overly surprised by the 100,000 estimate. It hasn't been "documented" cause the country barely has a health care system to speak of, and with tens of thousands being dead it's been hard keeping track. As the US military has repeatedly said, "we don't do body counts."

Andriana Duskrose

11-05-2004, 02:21 PM

What makes you think that Canada would even want your Jesusland reject states? Hmmmmm? Maybe you should go join Mexico instead, afterall isn't California already Mexico Jr.

Take Eastern Canada with you, especially the people living there!

BurnemWizfyre

11-05-2004, 05:06 PM

Andriana Duskrose

11-05-2004, 06:11 PM

You have California confused with Texas.

No, not confused, I've been to Mexico, I mean California quite a few times.

BurnemWizfyre

11-05-2004, 07:47 PM

No, not confused, I've been to Mexico, I mean California quite a few times.

Come to texas and then say that :)

Andriana Duskrose

11-05-2004, 10:13 PM

Come to texas and then say that :)

I've been to Texas as well. I shall conceed somewhat, they're both Mexico.

Now lets all be friends, Tilea is buying booze for us all, drink up, except me, I don't drink, but I'll watch all you drink, and then tea bag you when you pass out.

Seraphina

11-05-2004, 11:12 PM

I live in the south, and though there are quite a few people who aren't quite as "enlightened" as some people here are, they still are people who work hard everyday, and go about doing their business everyday, trying to make a life for themselves and their families. They pay their taxes, do their civil duties, head to church (perhaps a few times more a week than those of you in the more "enlightened" states), and take their freedoms seriously. Simply because they may speak a bit differently than you and may have a different perspective on how things should be does not mean they are all these mean things some of you call them. Who are you to denigrate them for voting the way they voted? This is a representative republic, founded and built by a melting pot of people, with different origins, beliefs, religions, and ideologies. The people of this country really need to start trying to find commonalities among themselves and to cherish the differences. Its what makes this world unique and interesting. I'm sorry your choice for President lost, but thats over and done with; lets move on. I'm sorry you don't like the fact this country's armed forces are fighting on foreign soil, I did not agree with going there in the first place, but we are there now, and moaning about how we're there isn't going to change a thing. Lets support our troops and hope they are able to complete their mission. Pulling out of Iraq now is the worst thing that could happen. Those of you not in this country are perfectly fine to criticize the government of the USA, but you have no say in how we vote and who we vote for. Calling the people of this country names and such isn't the best thing to do. My parents taught me that there is only one kind of stupid people in this world and that is the person calling others stupid. Bush is not a stupid person, compare your accomplishments to his, and see how it compares. Don't say he had his daddy, plenty of people with rich/smart/talented parents make nothing of themselves.

Shik

11-05-2004, 11:23 PM

oh you aint never been to the durrrty durrrty before?

Lothbah

11-06-2004, 12:33 AM

My parents taught me that there is only one kind of stupid people in this world and that is the person calling others stupid. Bush is not a stupid person, compare your accomplishments to his, and see how it compares.

I didn't know Forrest Gump had a sister

Forty

11-06-2004, 12:55 AM

compare your accomplishments to his, and see how it compares. Don't say he had his daddy, plenty of people with rich/smart/talented parents make nothing of themselves.

Well, last I checked none of my accomplishments resulted in the deaths of US citizens or anyone else for that matter. If we are fighting for the right reasons, fine. Afghanistan, fine. Iraq, has me puzzled. And just because the election is over doesn't mean you can't reflect on some of the comments and reports that are coming out. From CIA reports, that suggest there were no wmd and that this was reported to Bush before we went in, to reports that Iran could very well be next.

As far as his daddy or anyone else "helping him" well, he certainly had some advantages from having family members in politics. And there are those that think the PNAC have too much influence.

Bush, by himself, might be ok but combined with the members of the PNAC (www.newamericancentury.org) equals trouble for everyone.

To show off my leet cut and paste skills:

ESTABLISH FOUR CORE MISSIONS for U.S. military forces:
• defend the American homeland;
• fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theater wars;
• perform the “constabulary” duties associated with shaping the security environment in critical regions;
• transform U.S. forces to exploit the “revolution in military affairs;”

The more I read the stuff Chaney, Rumsfeld and crew write, the more I believe the current Iraq war was just a staged game to get our military back into "shape". And to make money while doing it.

Forty

11-06-2004, 01:42 AM

I'm sorry you don't like the fact this country's armed forces are fighting on foreign soil, I did not agree with going there in the first place, but we are there now, and moaning about how we're there isn't going to change a thing.

Your vote could have.

And this is part of my problem with some of you. "Ok, so going into Iraq wasn't the best thing to do. But let's reelect the people that put our troops in harms way."

And by the way, just because someone doesn't support a current president doesn't mean they do not support the troops.

Tarissa

11-06-2004, 08:41 AM

That is the most unintentionally hilarious post ever, Seraphina.

Vinilaa

11-06-2004, 08:49 AM

Forty said what I would have. ;)

Seraphina

11-06-2004, 10:41 AM

I give up. I guess the old addage that arguing on the internet is waste of time is true. You guys have your opinion, much of which I do agree with, but unfortunately you don't want to see things in any other way. This will be my last words on this issue, I hope you all have a good day and may you find some happiness in your lives.

Azis

11-06-2004, 11:33 AM

I hope you all have a good day and may you find some happiness in your lives
Happiness is watching Kerry fade away.

Scrith

11-06-2004, 12:19 PM

The irony of all this is that the people here complaining about Bush supporters are only doing so because they love this country, and the people in it, and they can't stand the fact that so many of their fellow countrymen have been brainwashed into supporting a man who actively pursues an agenda contrary to their best interests.

Unless you are someone earning an extremely high income, or involved in the defense or oil industry (and could care less about the death of hundreds of thousands of people), or so brazenly neo-Christian that you want to see America turned into a religious state, it is absolutely ludicrous to support George W. Bush.

The simple fact of the matter is that most of the people who are voting for Bush are supporting someone who is going to affect their lives in a negative way. It's like watching jews vote for Hitler...and, I'm sorry, but some people aren't comfortable standing on the sidelines and watching it happen.

Eomer

11-06-2004, 12:26 PM

Bush is not a stupid person, compare your accomplishments to his, and see how it compares. Don't say he had his daddy, plenty of people with rich/smart/talented parents make nothing of themselves.

*shrug* He comes from one of the most powerful, established, and connected families in your country. Period. His accomplishments are actually incredibly pitiful (other than becoming President, I won't argue that's not so easy to do, connections or no) if you look at what he accomplished his entire life. One bankrupt company bailed out by daddy's friends after another. He was a C student his entire life. He was an alcoholic, partying frat boy until he was in his mid to late 30's.

I wouldn't say Bush is stupid, he's obviously not. He's not sophisticated, well spoken, well read, or a whole bunch of other things. But I think he's at the very least clever and shifty.

I give up. I guess the old addage that arguing on the internet is waste of time is true. You guys have your opinion, much of which I do agree with, but unfortunately you don't want to see things in any other way. This will be my last words on this issue, I hope you all have a good day and may you find some happiness in your lives.

I am not sure why you feel this way, have you suddenly started agreeing with the other side? Why should we toss our own convictions and opinions to the side any more than you should?

And dammit Scrith, no more Hitler allusions!

Mcpickle

11-06-2004, 01:14 PM

Happiness is watching Kerry fade away.

wtf get out of spokane and move back to hick ville. :o

Torrid

11-06-2004, 07:03 PM

If you mock someone's viewpoint, you do nothing but strengthen it in their mind while weakening your own. And it's mean.

Azis

11-06-2004, 07:34 PM

wtf get out of spokane and move back to hick ville. :o
First off, wtf! hick ville? I'm well traveled...Russia, Japan, England, Saudi, South Africa, Austrailia, Germany, France, Guam, Thialand, India, Libia, Brazil, China, Korea...you get the point, so I will stop there.

Second, I am getting the fuck out of Spokane...this assbackwards po-dung pos town can blow me, fucking mullets >.<

Third, Pickle! how are ya man, thought you like faded away too. BTW what in god's name are you doing in Pullman?

PM da Troll~

Azis

11-06-2004, 07:41 PM

Just so happned to have a pic relating to "The" pickle,...

Azis

11-06-2004, 07:43 PM

AND! It is a shame that we will never know the "Plan"

Azis

11-06-2004, 07:52 PM

Now It's all just rumors, but I don't want to leave you Demojunkies hang'in...

Rumor has it, that Hillary will run for Pres in '08' & Bill might have interest in being the head of the U.N. I could see it, far fetched yes, but I could see it. I don't think she would be out of the picture for Pres, and with Bill's diplomatic skills, I could see him in the U.N.

Food for thought in anycase, personally, I wouldn't be against it.

Thuggo

11-06-2004, 08:41 PM

Hillary will never get the democratic nomination.

Forty

11-06-2004, 08:46 PM

Please don't encourage McPickle...=/

And more food for thought....Wonder what will happen when the people of Iraq elect a Iraq government that asks the US to leave which is very possible.

Plus, unless wmd are found between now and this spring, Blair will be gone and most likely will be replaced with someone that is less tolerant of US policy. Wonder how long the British will stick around.

Mcpickle

11-06-2004, 10:01 PM

I'm not in Pullman anymore~ I got accepted to Illinois at URbana Champaign for graduate study in Elec / Computer Engineering so I'm there for a while. I quit EQ when I moved here.. and left pullman /cry. I had a wiz on rallos and stuff but my accnt is just sitting there boo.

Anyways, back on topic! Bush sux! rawr!

40 I luv you. Lets pickle.

BTW Whats your characters name in EQ Azis?

Mcpickle

11-06-2004, 10:05 PM

Azis you're in spokane doing pharmacy?? Do you know a Jason Brouillard? (sp)
Playing EQ2 right now... good friend of mine!

Forty

11-06-2004, 10:11 PM

BTW Whats your characters name in EQ Azis?

LIGHT!!!

Mcpickle

11-06-2004, 11:07 PM

omg wtfux. I forgot~

Zappo

11-07-2004, 10:08 AM

http://homepage.mac.com/duffyb/nobush/iMovieTheater268.html

Kaneis

11-09-2004, 02:50 PM

Get a clue Kaneis. The bomb that was dropped on Canadian troops did not go astray. It hit it's target. It's target WAS the Canadian troops. If you were "there" you should already know this. Get it?

And as for "only" shooting down one coalition plane. Iraq didn't HAVE any planes TO shoot down so uhhh... it's more that just a little oversight don't you think?

I WAS there when it happened and it wasn't the objective of that mission. The pilot thought he was being fired on when he saw flashes from a ground training exercise. He was told not to drop the bomb but did anyway. It was his error, not some secret conspiracy of President Bush to kill 4 Canadians.

And Forty is right, Iraq did have approximately 120 planes that they moved to Iran, so there was always a threat.

Eomer

11-09-2004, 03:43 PM

Okay, first off, Iraq? Canada hasn't had any soldier in Iraq since the first Gulf War. It was Afghanistan. Second, we beat this issue to death awhile back, or at least me and Elidroth did. Eventually he admitted that I was totally right and he was wrong, right man? :D

Actually, I take that back, pretty sure there was half a dozen or so officers on exchange with the US military that WERE in Iraq, and there are also a handful of Canadian citizens in the US Marines and other branches. I've read about at least 3 or 4 from Alberta alone, two them being natives. I wasn't aware that the fast track way for American citizenship was to fight for the Marines, but I guess that's one of the rewards so to speak.

Either way, the friendly fire thing was Afghanistan.

Scrith

11-09-2004, 07:33 PM

Heh.

www.fuckthesouth.com

Vinilaa

11-09-2004, 07:36 PM

Either way, the friendly fire thing was Afghanistan.

Homer is quite correct! (as usual).
:eek:

Vidmer

11-09-2004, 08:21 PM

Heh.

Its really not a north/south thing as much as an urban/rural thing. This becomes plainly clear when you look at who won each county. Even New York is mostly red (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap.htm). This also is a monkey wrench in the whole secesion plan =p.

Eomer

11-09-2004, 11:08 PM

(as usual).

I was wrong once. I really learned my lesson though. Now I shove my hand down the front of a hot girls pants BEFORE I take her home.

Vinilaa

11-10-2004, 03:53 AM

I was wrong once. I really learned my lesson though. Now I shove my hand down the front of a hot girls pants BEFORE I take her home.

rofl! :eek: :eek: :eek: :o :confused: Oh My!

Eomer

11-10-2004, 12:11 PM

That was sarcasm. I've never been wrong.

Forty

11-10-2004, 01:11 PM

And Forty is right, Iraq did have approximately 120 planes that they moved to Iran, so there was always a threat.

*WHISTLE BLOWS*
*Announcer: Jim, I think we have a flag on the play*
*Referee:

We have illegal use of the quote on Kaneis. Not including all the quote and selective quote usage is a 15-yard penalty from the spot of the foul. Down resets.

Iraq had 125 fighter jets from the FIRST Gulf War (1990), not this one. While ownership might have been in question there is no evidence to suggest they had any aircraft at their disposal this time around.

Based on my readings of the Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld et al.. website New American Century (www.newamericancentury.org), I am more convinced that our current involvement in Iraq was nothing more than a training exercise to provide our military live combat training and that democracy and terrorism was used as an excuse to invade Iraq.

I invite you to READ (not skim or read the headlines, but fricken READ) the website to come to your own conclusions.

Thank you.

Myztlee

11-10-2004, 02:10 PM

There's something about the phrase "American world leadership" that really, really scares me.

Eomer

11-10-2004, 02:47 PM

Make no mistake, the PNAC wants to make the US the Rome of the 3rd millenium, just without the ugly fall. And a good number of the current administration have written papers for it, including Rumsfeld, Cheney, and especially Wolfowitz. There are other lesser known names that are no less influential that also have access to the President. They've basically hijacked the government.

And before someone pulls out the "conspiracy theorist" label, let me remind you that conspiracies generally don't have websites laying out their plans. No, this is much more brazen than a conspiracy.

Lothbah

11-10-2004, 03:23 PM

As usual, the onion hits it right on the head.

http://theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4045

Gryfalia

11-11-2004, 07:48 AM

I'm not in Pullman anymore~ I got accepted to Illinois at URbana Champaign for graduate study in Elec / Computer Engineering so I'm there for a while. I quit EQ when I moved here.. and left pullman /cry. I had a wiz on rallos and stuff but my accnt is just sitting there boo.

Oh holy crap, Mcpickle is coming to my state.

Time to hide the booze and women... (cept my brother-in-laws ex-wife...you can have her and if you throw some money her way, she'll sleep with you too...)

Gryfalia

Gryfalia

11-11-2004, 08:18 AM

The south is mainly about God, Guns and Gays. Democrats have done poorly in the south in federal elections ever since LBJ gave civil rights to the blacks. How dare those federals free our blacks again!

A little history lesson here..

LBJ did, of course, introduce the Civil Rights Act of 1964. (Well, you could say Kennedy did, but he was killed before it could be acted on).

In the House there were 3 power blocks (just like in the Senate):
All Republicans: 138 to 34 for the bill
Northern Democrats: 141 to 4 in support
Southern Democrats: 92 to 11 AGAINST

And in the Senate:
The filibuster against the bill was run by 18 Southern Democrats and 1 Republican.
The cloture (ending of open-ended discussion) for the bill occured when some modifications were made to the Act to make it seem like less of an expansion of Federal Government, bringing some 'swing republicans' from northern states into the fold to end debate. (amazingly enough, the filibuster went from April to May, 8 hours a day, 57 days total. Totally nuts..)
After debate ended, of course, it was a blow-out.

Final Vote: 73 to 27
6 Republicans against, 21 Democrats

(there's a really interesting web site about the history of this important Act:
http://www.congresslink.org/print_basics_histmats_civilrights64text.htm)

Anyway, my point for bringing this up is that the Democratic Party has done a stupendous job of trying to claim credit for the CRA of 1964, when it in the end it was only the Democrats who were really trying to beat it. To quote the website above (it's talking about the history of the various civil rights acts and such):

'The Republican Party was not so badly split as the Democrats by the civil rights issue. Only one Republican senator participated in the filibuster against the bill. In fact, since 1933, Republicans had a more positive record on civil rights than the Democrats. In the twenty-six major civil rights votes since 1933, a majority of Democrats opposed civil rights legislation in over 80 % of the votes. By contrast, the Republican majority favored civil rights in over 96 % of the votes.'

The website is part of the Dirksen Congressional Center, which is actually something good to come out of Pekin Illinois (not too far from me..;-) Seriously, it's very informative, look it up..

Gryfalia

Forty

11-11-2004, 08:37 AM

A little history lesson here..

LBJ did, of course, introduce the Civil Rights Act of 1964. (Well, you could say Kennedy did, but he was killed before it could be acted on).

In the House there were 3 power blocks (just like in the Senate):
All Republicans: 138 to 34 for the bill
Northern Democrats: 141 to 4 in support
Southern Democrats: 92 to 11 AGAINST

Yep, and what did LBJ say as he signed the Act? To paraphrase, "I have given the Republicans the South."

The 1964 Southern Democrat is todays Southern Republican.
So, yes, while on paper it seems odd in reality the Dems making those claims were the 1964 Republicans. That should help explain most of the Republicans having the better records...

Lothbah

11-11-2004, 11:13 AM

dixiecrats aren't democrats

Forty

11-11-2004, 03:20 PM

dixiecrats aren't democrats

Umm, right. That's what I said. I'm confused I guess.

They started out as Dems and, as the link below shows started a slower movement away from the Democrats. When LBJ signed the act, the fencers reacted moving to seperate parties or "the opposition party" and eventually to the Republican party.

http://www.templeofdemocracy.com/Dixiecrats.htm

In 1948 some Southern Democrats decided to bolt the Democratic party because of its Civil Rights policies and have a separate State's Rights Democratic national ticket. They were called Dixiecrats. Strom Thurmond was their presidential candidate. They had a convention in Birmingham, Alabama. Newspaper accounts of the events, along with the photos of the convention show the thoroughly Confederate nature of their movement. Ironically, all the campaign literature used national symbols, including the Statue of Liberty. So even though they were Confederate and sectional, they were conscious of the need to project a different image to the nation. This information comes from a microfilm from the University of Mississippi called the States Rights Scrapbook.

You remember Senator Lott's comments on Thurmond's 100th birthday don't you?

Here's another interesting read from the same site:

Click Here (http://www.templeofdemocracy.com/WhyfightNeoConfederacy.htm)

Forty

11-11-2004, 06:28 PM

Anyway, my point for bringing this up is that the Democratic Party has done a stupendous job of trying to claim credit for the CRA of 1964

This could also have been because Kennedy and LBJ were democrats.

'The Republican Party was not so badly split as the Democrats by the civil rights issue. Only one Republican senator participated in the filibuster against the bill. In fact, since 1933, Republicans had a more positive record on civil rights than the Democrats. In the twenty-six major civil rights votes since 1933, a majority of Democrats opposed civil rights legislation in over 80 % of the votes. By contrast, the Republican majority favored civil rights in over 96 % of the votes.'

Your statements from the website seems to suggest that they are forgetting to realize that the definition of a Republican and Democrat have changed several times over the last 150 or so years.

A Republican at the start of the 20th-Century would more likely fit the description of a Democrat at the start of the 21st-Century.

Gryfalia

11-12-2004, 07:49 AM

Umm, right. That's what I said. I'm confused I guess.

Yeah, I had to read Lothaines comment several times to figure out what the heck he was saying..;-)

They started out as Dems and, as the link below shows started a slower movement away from the Democrats. When LBJ signed the act, the fencers reacted moving to seperate parties or "the opposition party" and eventually to the Republican party.

http://www.templeofdemocracy.com/Dixiecrats.htm

In 1948 some Southern Democrats decided to bolt the Democratic party because of its Civil Rights policies and have a separate State's Rights Democratic national ticket. They were called Dixiecrats. Strom Thurmond was their presidential candidate. They had a convention in Birmingham, Alabama. Newspaper accounts of the events, along with the photos of the convention show the thoroughly Confederate nature of their movement. Ironically, all the campaign literature used national symbols, including the Statue of Liberty. So even though they were Confederate and sectional, they were conscious of the need to project a different image to the nation. This information comes from a microfilm from the University of Mississippi called the States Rights Scrapbook.

You remember Senator Lott's comments on Thurmond's 100th birthday don't you?

Here's another interesting read from the same site:

Click Here (http://www.templeofdemocracy.com/WhyfightNeoConfederacy.htm)

Interesting website (templeofdemocracy that is). Has to lose the lime green tho.

My point wasn't that the Republicans were the ones who made the CRA of 1964 fly (indeed, they were the minority in both houses at the time, unless my math skills have failed), but that they weren't the problem either. Most states that the Republicans represented at the time didn't have much of a racial problem either way and I doubt they cared much, really. Which is why most of the Republicans who did vote against it in the end did so because of 'increasing government power' and all, not for any racial reasons.

Part of what I ponder on this issue is...why let Strom and the like switch to your party if they don't hold to some of the basic ideals of the majority of your party? Power I suppose, no party is going to turn someone down who is 1) already in office and 2) stunningly popular in their state when they come along. I think that at some point they could have transferred his brain to a cat and people would have voted in the cat (not 100% sure they didn't).

But aside from the Democrats who 'moved over', I still think that the Republican party gets a bad rap on racial issues. There are, of course, racists in both parties (not naming any names, but historically we know some of them...), both as elected members and simple voters.

Should be interesting. In 50 years I expect the first openly gay president will be a Republican woman and Ralph Nader will still be getting 1% of the vote..

Gryfalia