NToV

[Sirensa]

While I understand that it is L`Malla's first turn and this is no negative comment against them, there is a patch this Tuesday, which means a rare and covetted Vulak will probably rot unless some sort of agreement is made.

7 days is too long for a turn.

I am assuming there will be a lot of patches come the release of Luclin. I don't want to see a lot of Vulak's being wasted. Guilds need to prioritize NTOV and get it done quickly or let someone who can.

I think we should lower the amt of time allotted to a guild for a turn. 4 days seems fair. 3 days seems better. I would like this changed effective immediately after L`Malla's turn.

[Quintall_ML]

We're a month into the rotations. Vulak's were wasted by the boatloads before October anyway.

Leave it be at 6 days with the 7th for vulak if necessary for a bit, if it gets done faster, so be it. if something rots, so be it.

It's something you'll just have to live with.

[Wyvern]

seeing as how for about 90% of the past 2 weeks myself and my guild has been sitting on our asses waiting for the rotations to swing around, I don't think we are willing to accept that mobs are rotting.

Vindication supports decreasing the alloted ntov days.

[Ubar]

Why cant we change it to 3 or 4 days, that is PLENTY of time to clear it easily, you can clear the whole place in 2 days with out any problem, that gives you two full extra days jic members arent on etc. Hoss and Vindi have proven we can clear it in 2 days, im sure ML can clear it too in that time frame, the only time it should take a long time is your first go at it. If we leave it at 7 days and some guilds take the full 7 days then it is really annoying for the next guild up to have to wait that long for everything to respawn(Hi sitting on our asses for a longer time frame waiting for mobs, that just sucks). (This is in no way against L`malla, I say let them have there full turn now, but after this please change it to 3-4 days, that is plenty of time, we can at least try to speed it up). Just please give a reason for leaving it at 7 days, because atm I dont see any.

EDIT: Wyv posted same time as me, as he said we want and fully support a shorter Ntov stay, it should NOT take you 7 days after your first go.

[Ciner]

Vindication will only be supporting guilds in Ntov for 4 days, any guilds in Ntov beyond 4 days will be considered *to Vindication* to be overstaying welcome and mobs still up will the 5th day will become FFA in *Vindication's eyes*

To take affect prior to L`malla's turn.

Its damn time, glad Sirensa reminded me. :cool:

[Rezz]

I hope that's a typo and you mean "post" not prior. Nobody bum rushed any of your raids, don't jump ours. We are taking our full 7 days, then we'll do your 4 day clear rule. And yes, I agree there might be a vulak rotting, but I won't bet too heavily on it. I'll let you know in plenty of time to come in and kill him if we won't be attempting. Don't make the decision to jump our raid on your own, if you will.

[Quintall_ML]

Ciner,

if yer so all fired for FFA, why not come out and just say so and leave the IGB. Your actions the last few weeks regarding Trak and Yelinak sure seem to be pointing to Vind adopting it anyway.

I'm sure you'll be able to get a kill in every 2 weeks or so that way.

ML doesn't like being *rushed*. Yes, we can clear it in 2-4 days as well. But if something goes wrong, or we have issues (as every guild here does occasionally), we're not keen on *have to finish* scenarios any more than you would be.

The rotation is, as noted, a month old. Let it go a bit more before you try and change it again, and see where things fall. Most likely, you'll see that guilds complete in less time than needed, and then we can discuss changing it to a lower time frame.

[Wyvern]

the fact that the rotation is a month old doesn't validate the statement that fewer days aren't needed.

And bugger off, it seems that to us we still had every right according to the igb to kill trakanon and yelinak, yet you seem to interpret the rules differently.

if 4 days in ntov is rushing, then im sorry but you shouldn't be in the rotation.

[Lilhaer]

Gonna make this my last EQ post. I don't understand why people want to change the rules DURING someone's raid-not to mention their first crack at it, happy thanksgiving.....

Here are the rules (as stated when L'Malla entered NTOV, and here is also the way they should stay till after their turn):

NTOV ROTATION GUIDELINE PROPOSAL:

1. Each guild in rotation is given 6 days to clear NToV. This 6 days is consecutive and may not be restarted at any time due to scheduled or emergency patches. Under no circumstances except where noted in the next paragraph is a guild allowed to extend their raid beyond 6 consecutive days without the consent/agreement of the other guilds in the rotation.

In the event a guild has cleared all dragons minus Vulak through 6 days, the raiding guild will be allowed to raid a 7th day to attempt/kill Vulak (note, if a patch or other interruption alters the zone this bonus day is void).

2. NToV mobs consist of Ikitiar, Eashen, Aaryonar, Feshlak, Dagarn, Kreizenn, Miranella, Koi`Doken, Zlexak, Cekenar, Sevelak, Jorlleag, Nevederia, Vyemm and Vulak.

A Rotation turn is secured by killing Aaryonar. Aaryonar is the gatekeeper of NToV and should be killed by the 2nd day of your guild's turn. If you cannot kill Aaryonar within the allotted 2 day limit, your turn is forfeit, and the next guild in line is up. -- This rule applies to all NToV guilds and raids and is not a 1 time test.

3. Ending/Beginning a new rotation turn. It is possible that guild's can take anywhere from 1-7 of their allotted days to clear NToV. In the event that a guild takes the entire 7 days, the next guild up in rotation is allowed 1 day between the previous guild's raid and the start of their raid to allow for spawns to "catch up". (Example - ML is in NToV and takes their full 6 days + 1 day for Vulak, ending on a Friday, Vindication is up next, they can choose to start their raid either Saturday or on Sunday, without being penalized). In the event a guild is finished with their turn in less than 6 days, the next guild up will have their turn commence anytime within 24 hours of Aaryonar's respawn.

4. Monthly pass considerations. Due to the high level of interest and lengthy raid times for this zone, no guilds may utilize their "1-day pass" for NToV raids. NToV consists of 15 high level encounters over multiple days, and should be treated as the highest priority raid for all guilds involved. Failure to enter NToV for a 24 hour period during your alloted raid time will result in forfeiture of the raid to the next guild in the rotation.

5. Extra spawns / pre-patch cleanup. In the event a guild's raid would start within 48 hours of a planned server outage, the guild can choose to start their raid after the patch. Any spawns that appear leading up to the patch may be taken by one of the other NToV raid guilds (a second loosely followed rotation for this may be tracked). If the waiting guild is up in rotation for the extra spawns, they cannot take them pre-patch, and must pass to another guild (this is to ensure people don't take advantage of the rule to gain days+spawns in NToV).

6. Failed raids. Once a guild has quit or failed an NToV raid, control of the zone will go to the next guild in the rotation. The guild would also have the options available in rule 5 above based on patch timing for their raid.

-----------------------------

Good luck in EQ to all.

[Ciner]

Ment post, had just woken up, after this Malla raid... Vindication will only be recognizing 4 days in Ntov.

Though if something is going to rot to patch will be considering it FFA also.

[Thanatoz]

So when IG enters Ntov for the first time your only honoring 4 days?

[Andaas]

The gist of the day limits on NToV was to extend 7 days to a guild on their 1st trip, then that limit was to be shortened to 4 days on subsequent trips.

[Rezz]

Curious on something, struck me last night, and since it basically only applies to our first raid (the 7 day learning period) I'm not entirely sure how it'll work. We kill as much as we can, there's a patch on tuesday (3am in the morning till whenever) We start again from scratch on tuesday afternoon, see how far we get by thursday evening, thus ends our 7 day period. This how it works or am I mistaken and have been mislead by the restarts of Hoss, ML and Vindi? L`Malla most definitely isn't pulling out early due to the patch, just curious if this warrants a complete restart or if we have till the end of our 7th rotation spot day to finish? Thanks in advance =)

ps: np Ciner, and after testing a few of the dragons, I'm starting to agree that 4 days to a guild that has attempted the majority of the dragons before hand is enough to kill them all from then on. Just looking out for the interests of my guild is all bro, no offense intended and none taken.

[Quintall_ML]

Rezz, last I knew, you have 7 days, patch or no patch. It's happened to all of us, just don't leave anyone behind tonight, lol.

This rotation is one month old, it hasn't even finished a full cycle. ML can kill things in 4 days. My concern is that someone will have an unforeseen circumstance (hmm, maybe a patch on day 3?), and get shafted. 6 days, considering the spawn timer is 7 anyway, is reasonable to allow for such occurences.

Vind, go FFA on us at your own risk. If we're working in NToV and you leapfrog us to kill another dragon because you think it's going to rot due to patch, you will get petitioned, again. Don't think any guild here wants that or the subsequent flames and bicckering that will occur here.

Side note:
Are you purposely trying to start shit with your comments about going FFA Vind, cause it's gone beyond tiresome. We're hearing rumblings from your guildies that Vind has already started discussing it for everything, and not in joking or 'what if' thinking, why is that? You think you will get to kill more? Less? That people will flock to you for being assholes like there are on other servers? That other servers will look at Druzzil and think Vind is king shit on the crap pile? That Druzzil is too tame for you? I'm curious, seriously, why anyone would discuss going FFA, when they have guaranteed shots at these mobs already.

[Sirensa]

I would like this changed effective immediately after L`Malla's turn.
Lilhaer, before you go jumping to conclusions that I meant mid-raid and that I was trying to fuck L`Malla over, please re-read the quote above, taken from my post in the beginning of this thread.

So far we have in agreement of 4 days after first turn:

Hoss
Vindication
L'Malla

In opposition:

Mythic Legion


So what does this mean? 75% of the capable guilds agree that after a first turn, 4 days seems fair. Can we do this or does ML's opposition dictate our actions?

**I am not trying to push this to be difficult. What I am concerned with is that with SOL and knowing we have 7 days to linger through ntov, that people will purposely go slow, so that they can take time to kill other things during there ntov raid as we have seen in the past. If you are up for ntov you should move through it as fast as possible and stay there. You should not be leaving to do other mobs in various parts of the world so long as you do a little in ntov each day to ensure your turn continues.**

[Quintall_ML]

I don't remember seeing folks move slow to kill other mobs actually, seems like everyone wants to get in and get out. however, it's just that thought of the unforeseen that concerns ML, not the time limit itself.

Make some sort of contingency for this, and ML may likely come around to agree on it.

I do know ML was forced to pass on mobs outside ToV and did trades for Hoss and Vind while they were in ToV on past runs. I don't think the time limit in ToV honestly serves any purpose for anything less than 6 days, due to spawn timers.

By keeping it at 6 days, you allow for random events not to hinder a guild unnecessarily. By locking them down at 4 days, you create an air of uncertainty, in that is the zone crashes, or an emergency patch occurs, they are screwed. If there's an option to deal with such things, let's get that figured out.

[Ciner]

There dosnt need to be any option... Thats why theres 4 days instead of the 2 actually needed. The only thing that I can see that would be a bitch, was if there were 2 patches within your 4 day slot. If that happened should get an extention of a day or two.

[Quintall_ML]

mobs are 7 days.

ML kills in a 4 day rotation
Vind is up next. But, oh, wait, mobs won't spawn for 3 more days, guess Vind gets one day to clear it.

See the room for error here?

Try again:

Mobs are 7 days

Vind is missing key class x on day 1 due to an outbreak of anthrax in san francisco. day 3 there is an emergency patch with 1 hour notice. Guess Vind got to let Vulak rot, and has one day left to clear it from the start.


Yes, those are a bit extreme. But it happens. Read my lips youngun, Shit Happens. It's called Real Life, and it has affected every guild here in numerous raids, striking without warning and totally at random. What we want is an assurance that when it does, we don't get bent over without lube.

[Quintall_ML]

Also, we have some guilds with people that *gasp* work during the week. 4 days to clear NToV starting on Monday night for them would be brutal for some, especially the Euros that play late as it is.

Remember, 7 day spawn period, you gain exactly 0 days by shortening the rotation to 4 days from the current 6+1. All you gain is stress on people if they make a single mistake. Nobody WANTS to be there more than 4 from what this thread shows. Hell, most people will be done in less than 4. However, I don't think limiting people to 4 is in order, since like I've said before, shit happens, to all of us.

Perhaps add to the 6+1 format that patches will no longer allow restarts if they occur after the third day in (ie, 4th day on), as a compromise here.

[Andaas]

ML kills in a 4 day rotation
Vind is up next. But, oh, wait, mobs won't spawn for 3 more days, guess Vind gets one day to clear it.

See the room for error here?

No room for error at all. ML clears NToV in 4 days... Vindi's raid begins up to 24 hours after Aaryonar respawns (at their discretion), not the day after ML clears.

Vindi then goes on to clear NToV in 3 days... and L`Malla's turn starts up to 24 hours after Aaryonar respawns (again, at their discretion, could start same day if they choose).

L`Malla spends 4 days in NToV and kills all but Zlex, Vyemm, and Vulak. Instead of figuring out who picks up these 3, it just goes to the next guild in rotation immediately - that guild can choose to hold for a full spawn if they want, and it defers to the next in line (well, this should in fact be a separate "clean up" rotation, but everyone balks at that).

The gain in making a 4 day rotation is the possibility of FAILURE. Without the chance of failure this is all silly. Believe it or not, people lose a few times before they figure things out. This creates an advantage for those that have spent the time and experience loss into learning new areas of the game before others.

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

So who wants to explain why Ciner and crew are in Tov claiming they're moving in on our NToV raid tonight?

[Lilhaer]

Sirensa my post wasn't aimed at you, it was in response to Ciner posting "prior" to L`Malla's raid, no offense was intended and he also editted his misquote.

[Quintall_ML]

I'd like to know why Vind is in North tonight as well.

[Ciner]

Posted my take on the whole night in the other thread.