NToV secondary rotation

[Rezz]

This has been mentioned in a few threads, and I thought it deserved it's own topic entirely :)

As has been discussed, Vulak is the most desired mob in the game.. everybody wants to kill him. That being said, the less Vulaks that rot to patches or are otherwise not killed, the better. It was brought up by a few people that this should be considered a second rotation, one that doesn't penalize anyone on the other rotation. And that only guilds that have proven capable (cleared in the recent past) of clearing NTOV should be on it, with guilds being added, if they wish, when they clear.

Something like this:

NToV Rotation: Hoss-ML-L`Malla-Vindication

VRP (vulak rot protection~) rotation: Hoss-ML-Vindication

The turns in the first rotation are not effected by the turns in the second, but the turns in the second are based on the turns in the first.

The second rotation only really comes into play on a) the day after the current guild's NToV rotation spot ends, b) the day of a patch during a guild's NToV rotation spot, c) the night of the final day of a guild's rotation spot where the guild in the VRP rotation has worked things out with the current NToV rotation guild's officers.

Also, this is entirely based on what is left in the zone. IMO, if a guild kills everything but Vulak, they have earned the Vulak and should get to kill it regardless what day of their rotation spot it falls on. Killing everything in Nwing is the work before the candy mob, Vulak. However, if ANY dragon is still up along with Vulak, this would be grounds to have the current guild in the second rotation take over if it meets the above criteria.

Also, should there be patch extensions for multi day rotations (only NToV now.. luclin might bring more) due to the nature of the time involved? Ie, your rotation starts on Monday, there's a patch tuesday morning, do you get the full 4 days regardless what you kill on monday? or should this simply be left up to a case by case nature, such as an emergency 6 hour patch that starts right after you whack eashan and ikatiar, and ends too late to continue. Imo, that would be grounds for a single day rotation increase. Sure, the zone is clearable in one day, but we've set up 4 as the allowed time, with some people asking for 3, other's asking for 6. Imo, make everyone happy and keep it to 4 after the initial learning period. Clearing it faster means faster repops, and 4 days should be plenty to clear the zone imo. And yes, this is coming from a guild that hasn't cleared the zone yet. But I'm that certain the zone isn't that hard once learned, and 4 days should be all that's required to clear.

Anyway, here's that topic Sirensa mentioned~ add inputs and all that.

[Quintall_ML]

ML still hasn't agreed to a 4 day rotation, nor will we.

We would however consider a 5 day rotaion for a rotation or two, then a revisit to see if reducing it to 4 days is warranted.

Basically it's been reducing a day per rotation already (was 7, then 6), and looking at the way days can fall, we don't see any need to put thumbscrews on any other guild here when they have an off night or two.

There's no such thing as a faster respawn, the mobs spawn in 7 days, period.

[Rezz]

What I meant by the faster respawns, is that if a guild takes 6 days to clear, that means that Vulak won't respawn till 13 days after the first guild's raid start. Clearing in 4 days means Vulak respawns 11 days after the first raid's start. Only push behind my meaning Quint =) Putting tighter restrictions on this might mean a little faster, less relaxed raids that also get the job done faster. *Shrug* Either way, thoughts on the secondary rotation idea? I'd like this set in place if at all possible before the assorted luclin patching, so we don't see single guild monopolies of the most coveted spawn in the game, when he's currently killable by 3 guilds and a 4th on their way to proving it.

[Quintall_ML]

Well, thing is, even with a 6 day rotation, no guild in thier right mind is going to milk all 6 days unless something happens that prevents them from doing it in less, ie, RL holding key folks offline as an example.

I know ML will be busting our butts to get done fast so we can get up into SoL, but I also know that shit happens, as no one here seems to want to acknowledge, and I don't intend to see us get screwed due to it.

[Quintall_ML]

Back on topic, Sirensa and I discussed this at length a while back.

I'm sure if you check the previous threads, you can find the things we came up with.

[Sirensa]

haha I remember that discussion although I couldn't probably explain it now.

I would be good with going with a 5-day rotation on NTOV for a cycle or two to see what happens.

And I agree that we need to set up a Vulak Rot Protection rotation if it seems a patch will come quickly and Vulak will rot. Situations involving potential Vulak rottage should be discussed in advance of plowing through another guild's raid to SAVE VULALK (/poke Vindication =p).

But I think now that we are mostly affable to discussion we can work something out in future instances.

[Quintall_ML]

I do have a concern regarding ML's next turn:

I'm hoping L`Malla clears Vulak tonight. If they don't, ML will be going in tomorrow and begining our rotation of ToV with a cleanup and then finishing with a respawn from patch.

However, Monday, EQ will be down starting at Noon Pacific, and not up again until Tuesday, making this a very unusual patch.

ML won't be able to go in there even if dragons are alive (which they won't be), so it's something definitely beyond our control, and therefore shouldn't count against our rotation days, be they 5 or 6. Heck, no one will be playing, so it's more like an invisible (/laugh) day.

[Ciner]

We need to start a VRP rotation and when a guild isnt able to clear Vulak+other stuff, the guild up in VRP goes in and finishes up.

Otherwise, the guild thats following the guild that cannot finish Vulak+other stuff is more than likely going to get double Vulak's a few times.

IE. Unless I'm mistaken, and I am quite tired so I may be. Quint wants to start ML's rotation the day L`malla leaves. Thus they would get Vulak before the patch and probably after as well. Basicly it means in this instance ML can kill Vulak and has 5(if we agree on it as a norm) to wait for a patch to come along. Whereas if a guild was beginning from a fully cleared Ntov they wouldnt get Vulak till the second day or perhaps the third and would only have 2 days to wait for a patch and then if the patch does happen to land will they have time to clear to Vulak? Doubtful.

While this may seem trivial, in the long run the guild following the guild that cannot clear all the dragons would achieve many Vulaks the other guilds would not. That is why I would highly suggest we institute a VRP rotation imediatly and it would kick in as Rezz said when a patch is coming or when a guild is unable to finish Ntov.

[Sirensa]

Here is my interpretation of Vulak Rottage Protection.

If ML moves in before patch and finishes clearing, that's rottage protection.

Vind moving in on L'Malla last week was rottage protection.

So a rotation is already established.

Vind
ML
Hoss

The difference in this case is that it is not ONE day pre-patch to save rots, it is 2-3.

If L'Malla does not finish tonight (and for the sake of discussion I will say they do not - but it no means does it mean I think they are incapable) then ML will move in tomorrow and have two days to clear.

Does this constitue the start of a turn or rottage protection? If it is indeed the start of a turn, then days start counting the minute they walk in - irregardless of patches.

Needs discussed.

[Thanatoz]

Good point Ciner, makes sense.

And sirensa what if one day be given for VRP. After one day if he isnt dead...the next guild goes in for VRP.

[Wyvern]

Clarification needed for this vulak should L`malla not finish tonite, friday. (Sidenote, I thought l`malla was done last nite, why is this now 8 days?).

So.. what's the deal with the vulak that is up now, and will rot if is left alive till monday.

This "rot protection" bit seems somewhat sketchy.. what if the guild who is up for the rot rotation is busy elsewhere? I assume the time limit for staking ones claim will be severely reduced?

[Rohaise]

You all are looking for some formula to plug in here for "VRP", but as I posted long ago it just ain't gonna happen.

There's too many variables.

Surprise Patches.

7 day, 6 day, 5 day, etc turn limits.

Guilds not clearing because of other priorities.

Respawns.

Etc.

There's no way that every possible case can be covered, before it happens.

Which means that each time a situation of "VRP" does arise, we'll have to discuss it here and come up with an amiable resolution amongst us.

The alternative is that 4 guilds, all of whom have permanent CoH set up to the safe hall, race to get Vulak, tempers flare, and we all deal with even more flames here and within our guilds.

I think *in general* we can stick to what Sirensa proposes. We can have a sort of "VRP rotation" set up, as she wrote. Vindication got the last one, ML will be in for this one, and Hoss gets the next. These secondary rotations should ALWAYS be discussed here first though, so we avoid a situation like last week where Vindication went in the middle of another guild's raid without advanced warning.

I think as long as common sense, and fairness prevails, it should run smoothly.

Everything looks fine and agreeable for this weekend, should L`Malla not clear tonight, and ML will take care of the VRP this time around.

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

Amazing the things we can agree upon when we actually discuss them, huh? ;)

Wyv, just as clarification, the reason we're in ToV again tonight is that both ML and Hoss agreed that we should be granted an extra day due to monday's Fiasco.

As it stands now, since it's rather late, I doubt you'll see L`Malla clearing NToV our first go around, but I"m quite confident you'll see it the second. Right now as I type this, all thats left is the two V's and 2 of the 3 triplets. I'm sure when we leave Vyemm/Vulak will remain, though we'll give Vyemm a go to test the waters on him.

From my understanding above, ML would start their rotation tomrrow, kill the two, then do the 3 days left starting tuesday. I get that right? ;) Basically the VRP and their rotation turn would overlap, if you can really consider this one a VRP since their rotation turn covers it *Shrug*.

[Coquetry]

When a guild enters NToV with mobs still remaining from a previous guild's NToV turn it should count against their Vulak turn, not their normal NToV turn. Vulak turns should last one night only and if a guild has other priorities they should make it known immediately and pass, so the next guild up in the Vulak rotation can get into NToV and get down to buisness. This method will be the most fair to all parties concerned, because the distrobution of Vulaks will be most equal and guild's turns for the rest of NToV won't be starting much earlier than the respawn earliest cleared dragons from the previous guild's turn in NToV. Everything else looks good, though I would just like to restate that shorter NToV turns are better and while 5 days is a good start hopefully we can get that number down to 4 or less.

[Quintall_ML]

Okay, to sum it up:

VRP is one day, comes into play to prevent spawns dying to patch if Vulak + at least one other dragon are alive.

If it is only Vulak alive at the end of a guild's turn, they have one 'Vulak' day to try and attempt him (forget how exactly this was worded before). If he doesn't die, then VRP comes into play.

Normal N ToV rotations and VRP are separate, and shall be recorded separately.

Normal N ToV rotations are 5 days, and shall be reviewed again after 1-2 full rotations to see about reducing to 4 days.

To get onto the VRP rotation, a guild must have killed Vulak on a normal rotation.


VRP has been added to the normal rotation schedule.

[Wyvern]

What about this scenario.

there is an emergency patch 24 hours before a scheduled patch, What happens there?

[Quintall_ML]

Hmm.

If it's during a guild's rotation spot, then they remain there. Emergency patches are normally < 12 hours notice anyway, hard to say that VRP would come into play on it.

Common sense should prevail, so long as something like what prompted all of this doesn't happen again, ie, the guild on VRP shouldn't enter ToV until they've spoken to the guild in there on rotation turn, and confirmed status.

I think we've shown if we talk about things before they happen, there's MUCH better relations and less hard feelings.