The 4th Warder

[Rezz]

Curious what the thoughts of the various guilds are regarding the freeing of the sleeper. Now, for those that don't know and for some reason haven't been keeping up with the way ST works, I'll fill ya in. There's 3 named golems in the zone, the Master of the Guard, the Progenitor and the Final Arbiter. These can drop 2 handed primal weapons or primal warswords, in addition to a ton of useless velious spells and the nice "Primal Avatar" (regeantless avatar) spell scroll for shaman. There's also 4 named dragons known as the Warders, who drop various Primal weapons and special Warder only loot. These warders have increasing difficulty, with the 4th being the hardest. The rotation slot for ST is clearing the first 3 warders and acquiring their loot, meaning the script isn't activated because the 4th remains alive. The zone is designed to protect an NPC known as the Sleeper, or "Kerafyrm" Freeing Kerafyrm (the destruction of the 4 warders) permanently removes the Warder dragons from the zone, increases the spawntime of the golems and adds the loot of a "Prismatic Scale" to npcs in the zone as an ultra rare.

The golems acquire some new, minor items, but the majority of primal drops and the warder only loot is removed from the server, most importantly the Primal battlehammers (the monk useable 1hbs that can be turned in for some statistically better 1hbs that proc avatar) no longer drop at all. Instead, the Prismatic scales that drop even less frequently than primal weapons off the golems can be turned, along with an ST key, to Melalafen in west wastes for some incredibly silly loot for the sacrifice made, all things considered. These rather badly coded and poorly done "scripts" take place once all 4 warders are dead at the same time.

That being said, here is what is acquired by waking the sleeper:

Less Primal Weapon drops, No warder specific loot, and a quest that yields sub par weaponry. This change is currently permanent, and is currently nonreversable. Mathmatically speaking, there is no "gain" for the one time event, merely losses. Thus, waking the sleeper is beneficial (to all known sources, disprove me with facts, not rumors) to nobody, and hurts anyone who has yet to see the zone. Ie, this act is essentially a hostile act by the guild who frees the sleeper, as it benefits them not.

An event, that while doesn't happen, is a good example of a comparative event, would be if killing Vulak permanently killed all of NToV off, yet Telk and Gozz spawned more often, and everything in the zone could potentially drop a quest piece that you have to turn in with a complete set of SS armor for a item on par with old world epics.

There you are, filled in on what freeing Kerafyrm brings the server. Now I'd like to hear your thoughts, because while it may be a high end encounter that only a few guilds will be capable of, it has permanent server impact, meaning it effects every guild on this forum.

My thoughts are that while killing the 4th warder when the others are dead wakes the sleeper, I see nothing wrong in killing him and leaving at least one other up, thus guilds can farm the 4th for his specific loot that drop nowhere else in the game and the sleeper remains asleep, enabling guilds to farm till their heart is content. Freeing the sleeper is imo an act of hostility against the entire server, and should be addressed as such. Damage with no benefit = hostility, as it has not been proven in any way that freeing Kerafyrm opens any worthwhile quests, zones, classes, races or abilities of any kind, it simply removes the best melee loot in the game.. from the game.

Oh, and GL with Ventani tonight Vindication =)

[Ciner]

Lol you pathetic whores need to stop reading our board. ("oh someone emails me everything!") Yah right hah, god begon~

If we want to release the sleeper thats our decision and we wont be regulated by the simple fact that your guild is a few steps behind ours in progress and needs more time.

Infact your stupid fucking post here makes me want to release him all the more, whereas 5 mins ago I was happy leaving another warder up.

[Rezz]

Actually captain, I was simply curious what the general view on farming the 4th warder was. And I don't read your fucking boards y0, I don't and never have had access, nor would I want it. Your own members talk to me, that and half a dozen other people started sending me tells this morning givin me the "inside scoop!" Am I asking for you to hold off? rofl, I didn't say shit about not doin it, if you read the last line, I was wishing you luck with killing the 4th warder. Christ, why so damn defensive man? Did you see anywhere in my post where I accused you guys of tryin to free Kera? Fuckin A, I was simply statin facts based on knowledge of the game, for those who haven't been anticipating it. That's right y0, I'm actually surprised the warders are still alive. Hell, after FoH posted their little Ventani strat, I was already writting off ST. I seriously thought, with all the posts baramos was makin about it, that Mythic Legion was fully intending to free Kera MONTHS ago. Pardon me for underestimating their survival. And you'd think after our last little chat about this deal that you'd understand I'm actually kinda curious regarding post-script events. Hell, I didn't break this down into nice neat paragraphs =/

Ciner, just chill man, nobody's tossin shit your way, and regardless what kinda BS you wanna believe, I do honestly wish you luck with Ventani. If you wake it you wake it, if you don't, you don't. *shrug* Either way, good l uck.

[Quintall_ML]

If you reread Bara's posts, you'll notice ML never had any intention of killing all four at the same time, just to kill Ventani and leave one of the other three up.

However, being that we don't trust Vindication to leave a warder alive after that any longer than it takes to get head from a call girl, we've not done it yet. This is something I'm sure Vind is aware of, so no reason not to say it.

And from a conversation I had with Wyvern, they felt ML would do the same. heh. Love the trust between us, no?

Anyhow, Wyvern also stated that Vind has no plans to release the Sleeper, that it would be dumb and pointless. Ciner, you gonna make him a liar now? nice.

Anyhow, if yer leaving one up, GL on Ventani. If yer not, and yer awakening the Sleeper just to get yer kicks and try to puff yer chest, whatever. Don't expect it to have any form of positive effect for your guild after the initial glow of dying to the DTs from Kerafym die off.

[Ciner]

Lol what you both dont get is, nothing either of you say impacts me one way or another in reguards to 4th warder. So why even have this convo...

Rezz if you truly didnt care, like I truly dont care one way or another about releasing Sleeper. You wouldnt have made this huge post.

[Quintall_ML]

Good to see the Xmas season doesn't change your personality Ciner. Kudos to upholding your membership in Assholes Unanonymous though the season, takes a 'special' person to do that.

What you don't seem to get, is that you deal with real people here, game or no game, and when you do something that will impact them negatively, you can expect them to get upset by it. The way you act here is truly nothing more than a core representation of yourself, since here you feel you can do all those nasty little things you are powerless to affect in RL. Great ain't it.

Sirensa, can I borrow that beer you were gonna pour over my head? I think someone else needs it more atm. I'll even toss ya a gnome for it.

[Ciner]

I think we should all mind our own business...

I like to keep this board as impersonal as possible. I'm not your friend Quint, and I'm not going to sing you carols cause its Christmas. I'm an associate... and being such requires me to look out for the people I am here representings interests, before your own.

[Ubar]

We are here to get a job done, not have a fucken parade and all be friends.

[Quintall_ML]

Whee.

Merry Christmas to you too.

[Lylala]

I know most of you probably don't care one way or another about my 2 cents concerning this matter.

You guys and the guilds you are in had dreams once too. Be thankful that you are all part of a guild that can say they have accomplished a feat such as even reaching ST. I doubt I will even see that in my EQ gaming career. It is an incredible accomplishment and I commend you for having the power and skill within your guilds and its members to pull this off.

I have no doubt that the guilds represented by the people here could eventually kill all 4 Warders and awaken the Sleeper. I'm sure it would be great to tell your friends that you were the first on Druzzil Ro to do it.

And I don't know if even of you really care, but is it really worth it? Is it worth it, knowing that all you will be doing is hurting the rest of us? Once that occurs, is there really that much that drops in there that makes acquiring the keys worth the time and effort it takes? You already have conquered that zone, while the majority of us have yet to even set foot in there. so I guess what do you have to lose, eh? All it will do is spoil the fun for the rest of us who would like to one day go there.

The real fault here lies with Verant IMO for putting something this stupid into their game. But then again, Verant has never really supported the little guys. We've always had to take a back seat to what you really uber guilds do and ST Warders are no different. It's all in your hands, the responsibilities lie with you ... and shame on Verant for making it that way.

[Yendii]

The fourth warder is there to be killed just like the other mobs in EQ. If the sleeper is released, ya I won't like the fact that its harder to get primal weapons, but they will still drop so its not a huge deal and there are plenty of weapons better than primal.

The only thing I don't get is, if Vindi doesn't think there are enough ubers to go around, why remove a rotation permanantly? First brood dragons still drop some nice stuff and people aren't going to stop killing them just because there are no warders to kill...

[Rohaise]

If any guild on this server ever does the brilliantly moronic move of releasing the Sleeper at this late point in the game, they're accomplishing nothing but shooting themselves in not just one, but both feet.

What does this accomplish?

1) The obvious one is alienating the *entire server*, duh?

2) Not so obvious is becoming known as the posers of the century. Go go gadget bow and arrows! (aka: I wanna be just like Tigole!)

3) And the most direct accomplishment is removing a whole plethora of mobs from the rotation lists, causing even more spawn conflicts and fewer mobs for everyone.

Release the Sleeper, and no one will ever take the effort to kill Klandicar, or Sontalak. Huge effort for little or rare reward. Heck, no one except ML even kills Yelinak nowadays. And most of us already have all the Zlandicar and Lendiniara loot we'd need.

And do I even have to mention the fact that SoL weapons are already blowing away primal, even from ridiculously easy mobs like THO and Itraer?

Sleeper's Tomb, on Servers such as ours, is becoming just a stair step for up-and-coming players in mid-tier guilds on their way to joining the frontrunner guilds. It's basically turned into what the old planes were when Kunark was released. Can you imagine if the planes were permanently despawned? How dumb would that be.

And primal aren't "all that". I think L`Malla showed this quite clearly with their successes in ToV North.

Whoever releases the sleeper to "cut down the competition" is severely lacking in the wit department.

Whoever releases the sleeper "because it's there, it's a challenge!" is deluding themselves. How hard is it to get 30 melee with bows to line up out of AE range and press a button?

ML will never release the Sleeper, because 1) it holds no challenge or reward, and 2) to do so would be outrageously stupid and contemptuous at this point.

[Ciner]

I disagree with 90% of the above post, but no reason argueing here~

[Rezz]

So I guess the prospect of setting up a rotation for the 4th warder in opposition of the normal ST rotation is kinda dead and buried eh? Grats sidetracked thread =/

[Andaas]

As much as I can't stand doing sleepers, I have to agree that releasing the sleeper would greatly reduce the number of mobs to kill for everyone involved (like I ever thought I'd agree with Roh, who knew).

Sleepers does in fact provide something to do when the occasion of nothing to kill comes around, and believe me, those occasions will be coming around more and more in the near future as patches slow down. Druzzil will again be faced with the fact that every lootworthy mob will be dead within 24 hours of a patch, and then we will again have 100's of people wandering around with nothing to raid. At least now we can all grind experience during downtime... yay!

Remove the warders from the equation, and all you do is remove 7 or 8 potential things to kill from the equation (3 warders and 4 key dragons).

The only reason to want to release the sleeper is so you don't have to trouble yourself with going to that zone anymore. Believe me, I have felt that way from time to time as well. But I just found it easier to pass the turn to someone else, and go when it makes sense and will be fun to do it - no stress, just have fun and kill some dragons and stuff.

Anyway, those are my two cents on the subject.

[Rezz]

Hrm, told myself I'd leave the topic alone since it's not on what I was talkin about, but may as well ask a simple question.

If you don't enjoy going.. and you have everything you want from the zone.. what kind of reason for releasing kera is "so you don't have to trouble yourself with going there again?"

Just.. don't go? *shrug*

[Andaas]

That was my point Rezz.

I basically said that at one time, I thought, "hey, just release the sleeper and we never have to bother again". Then afterwards I realized, "hey, I just don't have to fucking go".

If that wasn't clear, I'm sorry.

[Rezz]

Whoa, my apologies there Andaas, I see that now. I need some coffee =/ You made that perfectly clear, for some reason I thought you were saying the only thing preventing you from freeing it was not being bored enough to do it. Viva la starbucks, ignore the post above hah