The new (old) IGB

[Andaas]

So here we are in a new era for Druzzil Ro. There are a lot of people confused about what is happening and why, but I think we all need to be able to deal with things for the moment and try to make the best of things.

I have locked all of the rotation/non-rotation threads, as they really don't mean much right now. You may then be asking, what is the purpose of this forum then?

Well... the IGB was originally formed so that all out war didn't break out on our server. There was a lot of bad blood between Seekers and ML, and I tried to get everyone to work together to make Druzzil Ro a more peaceful place.

This forum is where official guild representatives could talk and settle problems outside of public forums (which typically degenerated into flame fests). As that was the original intent of this forum, I think that the usefulness of the IGB has not worn itself out - it has just changed from what we all grew used to over the past year.

Rotations and other things were sort of developed on the side over time, and I will be the first to say were actually the downfall of what the IGB became.

Anyway, at this point I would like to go back to the roots of what this forum was. A place to settle grievences, a place to argue, a place to make arrangements with others (yes, believe it or not, even a FFA server can allow for a guild to "plan" a raid someplace under the right conditions).

So.. what do you think the IGB should be now?

[Lylala]

Seems pretty obvious most if not all of you don't want IGB to be for rotation scheduling anymore...so what else can it be for but a place to argue/settle arguments etc etc?

BTW Ciner finally replied in the other forum if no one noticed yet.

Not happy that it's come to this...but since I'm not a member of the 'big four' I guess it really doesnt matter what I think. Winds up looking like mid-size and smaller guilds don't matter, which I must admit pisses me off. We didnt spend the last 4 months bustin' ass to make NI stronger to suddenly get stopped dead in our tracks, by people who pay the same amount of money that we do every month...just because they all want more toys for themselves.

Doesn't really matter, so enough on that line of thinking.


/shrug, so SURE, let's use this forum to settle disagreements and such.

/sigh

[DanstHoned]

how does it stop you dead in your tracks ?

sure u miss out on maybe a sure attempt at somthing but get their first ... Honed hasnt had any probs

Dlgoth asked if we were gonna try velk

and it was our very first attempt ... and we had np with anyone

almost had em too Velk left :p

i know he s not the statue ect but jus gotta work a little harder to get there

[Lylala]

It all depends on the mob you're talking about tho. Like you mentioned, try to kill Statue or one of the other mobs that are more sought after and you will get my point.

We can deal with FFA just fine but I just don't like it.

[DanstHoned]

first it stops your guild in your tracks ... now you can deal with it you jus dont like it

which is it lol

and i understand the point but its not like there is only 1 mob that drops phat lewt

oh well /shrug

[Rezz]

Vind imploded, can we start negotiations with ML to get the IGB back up and running? As much as I kinda dig the non rotated gig, not being able to even have a shot at NToV thanks to the majority of my guild having jobs sucks ass.

Not caving, but I think we can all agree that with vind off the rotations and them being back in place, we can all kill stuff, more often and without the stress of having to skip work/school to even have a shot at stuff. Looking mainly for Hoss like response, since L`Malla and hoss were named for it.

[Sirensa]

For the most part, Hoss was not against rotations. We are not against FFA either.

If all guilds wanted a rotation system - we would not be the guild to stop it.

I do believe though that ML enjoys the FFA lifestyle and would prefer to remain that way.

[Ciner]

We didnt implode, we're moving to Legends =\

Well, those that can afford, gotta love EQ!

[Thanatoz]

ML is in favor of rotations. They just do not want the IGB to be on a hoss site.

I really dont care either way who hosts it. But I am in favor of a rotated system. I do think some changes need to be made tho. I dont think mobs like ragefire and sev should be IGB anymore. Move them to druzzil ro.net

[Lozer Bloodpaizan]

I believe NI agreed to host the mobs that were in agreement to be moved, and we were not moving those mobs to the Dro net site.

[Lylala]

We offered to help if needed with it but I got little response from the other officers in my guild concerning taking this on. I know that VE also offered to take it if needed. I for one just became frustrated because no one here was talking or trying to work any solutions out. We can still probably work something out if needed. I would rather see any of us hosting it than for this stuff to go to Druz-Ro.

And yes, NI also supports rotations over FFA but I agree with Thanatoz that more mobs should be left off of the rotations. I still don't think its a good idea to have them on the Druz-Ro board. I think if that happens with these mobs, chaos will ensue. While there were a few problems, for the most part, those who wished to fight VS or other rotated mobs were allowed to. This wasn't something that was written in stone but it seemed to me like those guilds posting on the old "Unrotated Ubers" section were being courteus of each other's requests.

[Andaas]

Going to reinstate ML access here so this can be discussed easier.

For what its worth, I approached hosting this forum without bias, and didn't think that anything done here from an administrative standpoint could have been considered out of line.

As I mentioned in the other thread - I did overlook the fact that Ubar had forum access here after removing Vindication rep access. Apparently that was a sneeky underhanded thing... although it was just a mistake. /shrug

If this forum is to be hosted elsewhere, that is fine by me. However, from what members of my guild (former ML members) have communicated to me regarding ML forum admin concerns - Hoss will not participate in an IGB forum that is administrated by ML.

I will participate in them at IG, L`Malla, or anyone else's site - but if any of the leaders of ML are in control of the forum I will not trust that posts will be left open for discussion and/or unaltered by admins to suit their needs.

I will say that is something that never happened on these forums, and I would hope that wherever the IGB is hosted in the future would retain the standards that were set here.

[Lylala]

I personally have no problem with IGB headquarters remaining exactly where it is...easier for everyone IMO, and I've never had any problem with Hoss hosting in the first place. Can we please leave it as is? /plead

The only downside to putting it on NI's board is, well, um....our board kinda sucks LOL. It's great for us, it serves its purpose, but it's kinda short on special features, etc. But if needed, we will host it. But since ML seems to really want to do the hosting, I wont do anything until it's necessary :)

[Yendii]

I talked to Quintall yesterday and he mentioned wanting a new board where all guilds would have one rep with admin access. The guilds participating would donate to remove the pop up adds etc.

He also said that they didn't want a situation where only ntov was rotated and the rest was ffa.

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

Since I know some people arn't fond of UBB, if anyone wants to throw me this software I can host whatever. I got our website running on its own box with some nice fat bandwidth. Basically I'm sitting on multiple gigs of space with nothing to do with it, so I'm more than happy to host anything. I'm always at the pc during the day and I'm quite quick at updating things (access etc).

I dont' care where the hell its hosted to be honest. Just saying I have no issues giving out some bandwidth/space.

[Rezz]

Honestly, and this is just from my perspective, nothing was biased on these boards. I don't see how anything could be contrived as that, because simply put, we all had a hand in keeping things square, hell, ML was in charge of the rotation updating for months. I'm game for whatever, I just want rotations back up so I can go back to getting sleep ;p

For the rotations deal, I agree, just NToV would be dumb if all guilds want more then that's fine. My proposal was to get Vindication back semi into the rotated gig so we wouldn't have what happened, nobody bought it so ignore it basically. Mobs like Sev, Zord.. hell Sont and Kland now.. they aren't exactly high priority and too many people wanna test their mettle against em. If we reinstate rotations exactly as they were, great. If we want to scale it down, I would say Sev, Zord, Sont and Kland, possibly Trak would be the ones to be removed from it due to their kinda over/under use. Just my thoughts.

[Thanatoz]

I really think ML needs to get over hoss hosting the site. Its here its in place...why fix it? EZ board sucks ass. ML was updaing it all the time why is there a problem? Hoss cant gain anything by hosting it.

As for mobs that need to be left out. I think the question is are guilds like hoss, ML and lmalla going to keep making a push for ST? I know IG still wants keys and well farm our primal at a slow boring pace. So on mobs that are key givers only ie sont and kland( there loot is minimal), will you guys be pushing to kill them still?

I dont think anyone hates being FFA, but I dont think anyone loves it either. So my suggestion is that anything Kunark is treated as FFA. Luclin remains FFA. Velious is rotated. Mobs in SoV that can be FFA should be Velk-Telk-Gozz-Kland-Sont.

This gives us some excitement and some peace of mind in the game.

[Thanatoz]

Also I suggest if we do do this... lets make it happen on the 13th(patch day).

[Thanatoz]

im talking to quintall right now...says he doesnt have access..fix it sirensa or suffer my wrath!

[Andaas]

Done, hehe. I got Roh, Bara, and Selice access last night but forgot Quintall. :(

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

Thats it, Andaas is being biased... :D


Now on a serious note...over on druzzil-ro.net every monkey and their brother has decided to take it up on themselves to decide how and what and where the IGB should be.

Long story short, I don't care MUCH where it's hosted, but I'm not going to deal with a PUBLIC IGB.

The IGB should stay private to the leaders and selected officers of each guild and it should remain that way.

Many discussions that happen on these boards are things that should ONLY be discussed between the leaders/officers of guilds, and not everyone in the guild needs to read about it. We are the leaders/officers of our guilds for a reason, and if the members don't have faith in us to do our jobs and settle disputes without trying to peep over our shoulders, then there's no point having any form of hierarchical structure.

While we're at it, the threads in this forum (save this thread) need to be archived. Clean slate here. Access to any Vindication member should be removed totally, and the other forum that was started temporarily needs to be removed.

Frankly, I don't give two shits if its hosted on Hoss's boards. It does Hoss no amount of good to have it here (other than upping their post counts to gain stars ;))

If we're going to start up the IGB again, the mudslinging needs to come to an end. We all keep talking about being adults and thats why we want rotations, but the crap being spewed on Druzzil-ro.net between each other isn't very adult, and neither is this my way or the highway bullshit. We need to discuss this and come to an agreement, not guilds a and b agree with guild c's views. ALL of us need to agree TOGETHER. It's really not that tough here.

[Sirensa]

Oh one thing I have to say that I am most proud about from ALL of us...

None of our mud-slinging flame fest logs have been cut and pasted onto public forums.

Tempting as it may be =D

[Andaas]

Can Baramos and I post some of our greatest hits to public boards?

PLEASE?

[Grazel_VE]

Oh one thing I have to say that I am most proud about from ALL of us...

None of our mud-slinging flame fest logs have been cut and pasted onto public forums.

Tempting as it may be =D


Unfortunately only mostly true, not 100% :( Stuff I said here about Vindi got copied to the DRo boards. At the time, Vindi wasnt supposed to have IGB access.

Thankfully it was quickly sent to "The Void".

/shrug

[Thanatoz]

So say we all agree this is what it would look like come the 13th when IGBv2.0 goes live?

CT -
ML
Hoss
L`Malla
NI


Zlandicar -
Hoss
GAP
IG
L`Malla
NI
ML

Tormax -
IG
ML
L`Malla
Hoss

Statue -
L`Malla
Hoss
ML
NI
IG

Dain -
ML
Hoss
L`Malla

Dozekar -
Hoss
IG
VE
NI

Lendinaira -
Hoss
L'Malla
IG
ML

Yelinak -
ML
L`Malla

N ToV -
L`Malla
Hoss
ML
IG

VRP -
ML
L`Malla
Hoss

FFA mobs are - Klandicar, Sontalak, Velk, Telk, Gozz, anything Kunark.

This look ok for everyone? Not trying to play favorites..just trying to get the ball rolling.

[Rezz]

I'd like L`Malla on doze when they go live, toss us in at the end~

Otherwise that would be fine for me. Yes, L`Malla does still intend to make a push to getting everyone a ST key, just because it's fucked up to get half the people stuff then stop getting it. But we won't be bailing on any rotation mobs to drop sont/kland, as they kinda have shit fer drops (beyond a few level 60 spells from kunark, which are nice!) Vind being removed from the boards isn't a strike against them, they are kinda leaving the server, so they don't really need a part of this. I'd like to see some Mythic response from this. If they have a problem hosting it here, then we'll move it to L`Malla's website or something, or simply toss it in the webspace and host another site.. either or.

We all still agree on the rotation guidelines set forth when the IGB was formed? I know L`Malla does.

ML: Everyone is waiting on you now.

[Sirensa]

Not to be a stick in the mud - but I am not quite ready to jump back into full-force IGB yet....

There are things we need to discuss, changes that should be made.

ML has created an EZboard "new" IGB forum. I have yet to access it as I need some time to think and talk to the guild on what we would like to see different should we go back to IGB.

I don't like that attitude coming from ML that it is their way or not at all - I would like the IGB to have some sort of enforced method of dealing with conflict within itself.

Right now I feel like my hand is being forced - and I am not willing to subject Hoss to another guild's whims/rules.

I am not saying I am pro-FFA. It's quite simple to re-create the calendar system - but that doesn't solve all of our problems.

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

Long story short, this isn't going to get resolved. I have no desire to change boards again, especially if its crappy ezboard, ML is refusing to discuss anything, and Hoss still seems to be sitting on the fence...

[Andaas]

Since all we are doing right now is discussing the possible return of the IGB, I think that for now, ML representatives can make a presence here for the discussion.

If we all come to an agreement as to how the IGB should be changed and run in the future, I am fine hosting it anywhere - be it a shared admin site like ML has set up, or at L`Malla's or someone elses site.

Unfortunately, as Sirensa has said above, things can't be run the same as they were before. We need to figure out how to set up rotations that is in the best interest of all parties involved.

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

I agree Andaas, but ML apparently won't even come here to discuss.

[Sirensa]

Yes, we are sitting on the fence. Never fear though we will get off of it at somepoint soon. I just am unwilling to rush into any rash decisions.

Why? Because I did not like the way IGB previously functioned and I believe it was destined to implode quite similarly to how it did.

So hypothetically - cause we know how everyone loves my hypotheticals, we go back to full-fledged IGB rotations? What happens in NTOV? Is it still 4 days? Cause 4 days to clear is BS in my mind. What if ML strong-arms us like they are doing now? "You're either with us or against us"

So yes - while there have been rumors since Friday. It was only TWO days ago that it was certain in our minds that Vindication people would most likely be moving off the server.

Hoss is currently discussing the situation on our message board as we believe our member's input is a valuable as that of Andaas or I. We won't ride the fence forever - but I believe a few days to discuss the matter with our guildmates and discuss potential changes to the previous IGB with guild representatives is more than fair.

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

Well I agree with you to an extent, Sirensa. People can point fingers all they want and say that the IGB made my guild..whatever. When I joined the IGB the only things being rotated was Trak, CT and Inny (pre upgrades). I PURPOSELY kept us a step behind the other guilds on rotations for a long time to not but heads and go through the crap we're going through now, and I never put us on a rotation until I knew we could kill the mob. The only rotation I was on that we took a few attempts on was the first upgrade to CT.

With the state of guilds and the server now, there are many mobs that no longer need rotation and havent been for a while (mainly the mobs that Thanatoz posted about earlier). Hoss, ML, and L`Malla know what we can kill and do so every turn of our respective rotations.

bleh, i'd type more but my cable is fucking up and booting me every 2 minutes and between this board and the crap on the druzzil board, i'm a bit ticked atm ;)

[Sows McBuff]

i realize NI is far from being one of the "big three", but IMHO we still have a say in the goings-on of the server, considering we do have an interest in some of the mobs that would be on any IGB2.0.

My 2cp: i think something that should be re-considered is the idea of "earning" one's way onto a rotation. I realize that this has the potential of hurting us as far as being on a few of the rotations that we're uncapable of being on, but the idea has merit. After a few tries at Kland, CT, et al, we've come to acknowledge that we simply don't have the power for all the ubermobs. certain mobs are harder than others, and it's pointless to let every guild and their dog try a mob that they have no chance at beating. so say we create a scale of uber mobs; most of the people involved in the IGB know which mobs are harder than others, surely we could come to a consensus as to which order they should be listed in, and come up with a tier system, and you would have to kill X number of mobs (be they different mobs, or the same mob would be determined through discussion) on tier A before you could get on a rotation for a tier B mob and on up the scale. here's a hypothetical layout:

Tier A
Dozekar
Zlandicar
Statue of Rallos Zek

Tier B
King Tormax
Klandicar
Cazic-Thule

Tier C
NToV
Sleeper's Tomb
Lendiniara
Yelinak

Tier D
VRP


not saying this is exactly how it should be divided out, just suggesting a format. questions? comments? flames? :)

now, i know the main counter-argument was "who are we to tell each other and the rest of the server what we can or cannot kill?" well, if we show that we can kill something weaker, then it becomes a moot issue, because we have shown we are ready to try the next level of mob strength. as the rotations stand (or stood), my guild, Novus Invictus, could ask to be put on the NToV rotation any day, and because of the rules you would have to at least let us try, and give us the normal 7 days to give it a go, during which time we would experience severe losses in xp, and much dragon loot would be wasted because that would be one round of dragons not killed. during which you NToV-capable guilds would piss and moan about how we didn't belong there :D see my point?

[Andaas]

7 days in NToV was one of the huge breaking points of the IGB. Hoss and Vindication were both pressing for the allotted raid time to be reduced to 2 or 3 days, and ML REFUSED to back down from a 5 day raid.

If the IGB were to embrace NToV for rotations again, the raid time should be reduced to 1 day. You have your day and kill what you can -- fall short of clearing and it rolls over to the VRP squad.

Is this unfair to newer guilds joining the rotation? No actually. It would allow someone to test the waters of NToV and kill a few dragons, then clear out. The next day, the VRP rotation moves in and finishes the job.

As a younger guild gets more experienced, they will be able to kill more and more - and the presence of someone "learning the ropes" of NToV won't interfere with the experienced guilds from killing there regularly.

[Thanatoz]

I agree with ntov...2days seems fine to me.

[Dlgoth Riknueth]

Ditto on the two day thing...Hell our third NToV run when the FFA crap started we were set for clearing in two days...If our rotation could fall on a weekend we could do one day I'm sure, but when most of my guild works during the week one day would be pushing it.