Torrid's Update

[Quintissimo]

It's been a while since I have heard anything from/about Torrid; it's good to see that he has not stopped bitching about one thing or another. I will forever remember that the only way not to hear about how (amongst a plethora of Torrid-worthy bitching) Wizards sucked and how they would never amount to anything other than port bitches in guildchat was "/ignore Torrid". Even though I haven't played EQ in many moons, those treasured memories stay with me unto this day.

Though we live in an ever changing world, it is reassuring to know that there are things that remain constant... things that remain dependable... like Torrid bitching. Huzzah!

(Greets to the Hossers that remember this crusty old Paladin/Druid.)

[Parak]

Huzzah?

[Tarissa]

Come on, that's the endearing thing about torrid! =(

[Torrid]

The sad part is, no one can tell when I'm bitching for the sake of humor or bitching because somthing sucks. Front page news bitching = for the sake of a chuckle. No fair using it against me! ATROCITIES!

[Davan]

Damn paladin and his secret supposedly gnome chanter. =p So does Torrid still suck? =p Sigh the days of him and Maclair bitching about wizard spells. /mourn the days of Phoenix and Hoss on Sol Ro and Alc being bored in Ct making corpses, or hanging in fear and beating up Parak and him blaming it on video lag! Oh well gone are the days of RIP, Hoss, and Phoenix. Deidden, Samuel, Stylean, Mercyon, Alc, Torrid, Maclair, Balthak, Parak, Ely,Lozoria, and yes even Cardinal and Pitty von Gimp. =p


Davan Dragonsbane
Eternal Wrath/Ayonea Ro

[Torrid]

So does Torrid still suck?

Whee, lets get started!

Wizards are situational characters. In constant-fight scenarios, (i.e. exp groups with great players) we suck dick. Against most uber mobs, we destroy. (Seru being a good exception-- resists are horrible, we're forced to limit our aggro more so because moving seru can spell distaster, and all the bane weapons have great ratios) Our damage numbers are, however, blown out of proportion due to mod rods and necro feeding. In order to be a fair comparison to other class damage, you must exclude these factors.

Ironicaly, wizards are now as much item/AA dependant as melee. A wizard without a nuke item, with no flowing thought, no focus and no AA is going to suck at almost every encounter. In this case, Torrid has a mere 2 flowing thought, which is far from optimal. However he does have 90+ AA, which is good.

Short answer: somtimes.

:)

[Eomer]

Our damage numbers are, however, blown out of proportion due to mod rods and necro feeding. In order to be a fair comparison to other class damage, you must exclude these factors.

I guess I can kind of see your point, in that it makes it hard to compare melee damage to a wizard damage (or any caster really), but if you were to exclude those from wizard damage, then I guess you would also need to exclude haste and buffs from melee.

[Inizen]

no because buffs you cast once for something like 2 hours, you don't really have to include the factor that your taking one person away from doing anything else (mod rods or feeding). so rawr =)

especially with MGB spells, and free haste (shissar), etc. Where's mass group mod rods? =D

[Eomer]

I dunno, I just personally think that you can't compare damage dealt by casters and melee, period.

[Cardinal]

Heh,

Even Davan finds us... First Sorn, now Davan... next thing you know Rinoa (sp?) will hunt us down...

-Card

[Selenajra]

The feel of that post is almost like it's from one of those automatic-rant-producer pages torrid, except yours actually has substance.

[Torrid]

but if you were to exclude those from wizard damage, then I guess you would also need to exclude haste and buffs from melee.

Uh, mod rods arn't a buff. Necro feeding isn't a buff. Kei and Pog are buffs. Buffs are cast BEFORE the fight, and do not take away from another character's damage. You can include ONE mod rod in a wizard's damage and have it be a fair comparison. Mage DD is very respectable. Mod rods are mana the mage could have spent nuking. Also, if a wizard is using mod rods, he is not item nuking, and builds more aggro that usually needs concussioned. This removes any 14% advantage in DD efficientcy a wizard may have over mage DD.

Unfortunaly mod rods have a broken ratio which makes them worth using for anyone. They should only be used for cleric mana.

[Nuuk]

Well...

I did 126k to seru last night, if thier were no Mod rods, that number most likely would have been half using free nuuk items and self regen. Also, our overall DPS drops considerbly and that can translate into a great many other problems that can happen over the course of a long fight. More DPS means shorter fight = less things can go wrong.

Mage mana to make me a rod translates into more dmg then if the mage just use his own mana to nuuk. Of course, like Torrid said, it is situational/agro dependant/mob dependant.

I do believe Rods go to clerics first and as long as they have what they need, I do not see anything wrong with using them. Depending on them no, using them as a added perk if we have extra mages, for the greater good of 50 people taking down a mob, wizard nuuk's (even Lures) are more efficient use of mana then mages Nuuking. Not saying its right or wrong, just stating that's the way the game exists today.

[Renain]

In PoP mages are gonna have a pet that doesn't melee or cast or anything, he just runs around and drops rods in front of clerics


j/k

Hate to add to a hi-jacked thread, but mod rods are somewhat my area ;p. Mages nukes do not compare in the least bit to wizzy nukes as Nuuk mentioned. Mages will most likely always be rod summoners as long as fights last longer then wizzies manapools do... unless as Arcius suggest in PoP there will shorter boss fights again. We don't mind the rod duty, but we do like the extra respect towards our nukes... even though nukes aren't what I prize myself as... I prefer pet dmg + DS dmg to be the main factors of where my dmg would come from, but unfortunately that isn't the case atm due to problems with pet lvl's compared to AC+lvl etc.. of boss mobs. DS's are still rocking almost... well, almost.

[Khael]

Didn't aed do like 120k too? :p

[Karendra]

MoD rod2 were in my eyes a great failure because it gave basicaly unlimited mana(if enough mages are there) to every caster, wich destroys ANY balance/advantage a caster with a self only manaregen had in long fights(necros and shamans).

[Arcius]

I like rodding =\

[Karendra]

has nothing to do with liking it or not:)
just fights in luclin would been shorter also shorter since they designed them around unlimted mana(well atleast i think they did)

[Arcius]

Well, I wasn't responding to your post!

In an attempt to make mages feel useful on raids, they screwed up and made fights less enjoyable for everyone. They should have given us something more original to make us a desirable class to have around.

After Velious, though, I'm glad that I'm needed for something other than CoH (too bad they had to make many boss kills last 25-40 minutes). I like being useful, therefore I rod.

[Torrid]

Its a shame mage DD is so underestimated. If someone actually crunched the numbers, I'm sure that dropping rods and having wizards eat them instead of mages nuking/wiz item nukes would find the difference to be somewhat small. I'm not denying wizards roding usually is the most efficient method, thats why its broken.

The advantage wizards have in damage over the other classes is mitigated down to near nothing if you consider that the melee did a shit load more on the way to the fucking uber mob, killing the dozens of freaking VT mobs. Every uber fight is pretty trivial now a days anyway, aside from emp. Killing it 10% faster is no big deal.

[Karendra]

ya arcius its a shame they couldnt be more creative to give mages something useful.

[Khael]

*incessant scribbling and noise over at verant's office as they look up the word: "CREATIVITY"*

[Arcius]

Its a shame mage DD is so underestimated.

It's pretty good, but no where near the efficiency or damage of a wizard.

Mana per damage:

Shock of Fiery Blades (1005 damage) - 3.008

Elnerick's (1890 damage) - 3.6

Garrison's (2100 damage) - 3.888

If I rod myself for mana to nuke, I'm getting a little more than 260 mana (not even enough for another nuke). If a wizard rods they are getting 660 mana and can already nuke again.

What's the point in even nuking if wizards are more efficient and deal more damage? Nuking is boring anyways, I'd rather rod and maybe throw a nuke in every now and then.

Has anyone parsed wizard dps with Elnericks?

[Mkai]

Elnerick's (1890 damage) - 3.6

Garrison's (2100 damage) - 3.888


The problem is the availability of those 2 spells.
I'm sure Hoss has all or close to all the Elnerick it needs. But I doubt many have Garrison.

So if we are to talk about wizards in general, I don't think these are valid exemple. If we are to talk about Hoss or ML wizard then you can bring Elnerick to some degree.

[Arcius]

We aren't talking about wizards not in top tier guilds, sorry. We are talking about VT bosses, Seru, Emp. The high hp stuff where wizards really shine.

Nuuk has the only copy of Garrisons, but ERR still does a lot more damage than the mage nuke and is more efficient.

[Inizen]

and looks prettier when you get a crit!

[Torrid]

I would consider 84% of my damage close. In fact if nothing other than 6 man groups trolling through dungeons existed in EQ, I'd be fucking pissed at mages :P Btw, I find myself ending up using sunstrike more than EER on lots of uber mobs. Just seems fire works better more often than not.

Also you must consider that a free DD item would be used in place of eatting rods, which would mitigate the difference some. Also if the fight were shorter than 10 mins I'd say it would be better for the mage to not feed rods to wizards at all. Likewise it would become more advantageous to feed wizards in extra long fights.

Nerf rods plz, thx.