MP3's.. downloading, stealing, etc.

[Elidroth]

OK.. so a little rant-ish behaviour here..

I download MP3's of most the music I review here.. I'm not running out and buying all these CD's all the time. Some I do.. some I don't. Here's why..

The record companies force feed us a lot of shitty bands, and with their price fixing nonsense have driven the price of CD's to close to $20 nationwide. To go out and spend that kind of money only to find a CD full of shit with 1 song I actually like just pisses me off and I won't do it anymore.

Now.. having said that.. I fully support the right of the artists making the music to make their money. If I come across something I really like.. I spend the money and go buy their CD, even if I've downloaded the entire thing and have been listening to it in my car for weeks.

If you like something you've downloaded.. go buy the damn thing..

Oh.. and FUCK YOU Lars Ulrich.. on SO many levels. Not the least of which is your claim of "We never called ourselves a metal band", let alone your Napster witchhunt.. You worthless fuck of a mouth-breather.

/rant off

[Andriana Duskrose]

The record companies force feed us a lot of shitty bands, and with their price fixing nonsense have driven the price of CD's to close to $20 nationwide. To go out and spend that kind of money only to find a CD full of shit with 1 song I actually like just pisses me off and I won't do it anymore.

Except they don't, last I saw no record executive is holding a gun to your head to listen to a_flavour_of_the_week_1782. If you don't like the way record labels run their business, don't support them.

When I bought my very first CD 12 years ago, it cost me $19.99, the last CD I bought cost me $14.99. If you consider this a negative trend, you're nuts. I wish other forms of consumable entertainment aged in price that well - Paper back books are now 13 bucks, movies $13.50 on a Friday night, the lastest computer game with 15 hours of gameplay (being generous) costs 80 bucks, a two day movie rental is 6 bucks, table top RPG game books anywhere from 30 to 70 dollars, etc. All of which generally provide me with less entertainment then a CD.


If you like something you've downloaded.. go buy the damn thing.

Yup, if you like it, go buy it, if you hate delete it and move on, and if an album has 8 or 9 good songs out of 10 on it, don't be a cock and never buy it because, "the whole album isn't good".


Oh.. and FUCK YOU Lars Ulrich.. on SO many levels. Not the least of which is your claim of "We never called ourselves a metal band", let alone your Napster witchhunt.. You worthless fuck of a mouth-breather.

Yeah I know, how dare he try to protect his investment, and his labour... :rolleyes:

[Elidroth]

Give me a break.. since the advent of Napster, Kazaa, etc.. record sales are UP 400%. This bullshit that they were costing him money is just that.. bullshit.

It's also hypocritical on his part.. since Metallica's initial distribution and construction of their fan base was from the copying and distribution of their self-made indie release.

I guess it's all in the timing.. it's ok to use people copying your music and giving it to their friends when you're trying to get your break and build a fan base, but once you're successful and rich, it's all about protecting your wallet.

You're right.. nobody is forcing me to buy anything.. But when you hear one track that's good.. and find 10 more of complete filler bullshit.. that pisses me off. I download music to weed out that fodder, buy what I like, and delete the rest.

If anyone should be the target of this crap.. it's the record labels themselves. When you look at the amount of money that actually makes it way into the artist's pocket PER CD.. it's quite clear where the real crime is happening. Sad fact is most of these musicians are too stupid to negotiate good contracts are just so happy someone wants to 'record' them they'll sign anything shoved under their nose.

Interestingly.. Eddie Van Halen is one of the best there is at the contracts.. A friend of mine was at Warner Bros one day working out details for a band he was recording at the time and ran into Eddie picking up his royalty check for Van Halen 1 for the 1st quarter of 1998. 21 years after release.. that record cut Eddie a royalty check for $286,000 for 3 months of sales, playback revenue, etc.

Moral of that story is don't drop to your knees to blow your A&R guy just cause he gets you 'signed'. Get a good contracts lawyer and work this shit out.

[Andriana Duskrose]

Give me a break.. since the advent of Napster, Kazaa, etc.. record sales are UP 400%. This bullshit that they were costing him money is just that.. bullshit.

Really? I've heard the exact opposite (record sales being down that is), but since I don't pay a fee to get the sales figures in the music industry I really coldn't confirm or deny the figure with any certainty.

As far as I've heard about the Metallica thing, they were more pissed off about the fact unmastered and unfinished works were up on Napster, sucks they actually have some kind of pride in the stuff they want to release (from an engineering standpoint).


If anyone should be the target of this crap.. it's the record labels themselves. When you look at the amount of money that actually makes it way into the artist's pocket PER CD.. it's quite clear where the real crime is happening. Sad fact is most of these musicians are too stupid to negotiate good contracts are just so happy someone wants to 'record' them they'll sign anything shoved under their nose.

Yup, sucks to be the band signed to a real shitty contract, but it's the bands fault. No one is forced to sign a shitty contract, and since when was there a law passed limiting the amount of a money a person or company was allowed to make?

Sign a shitty contract and you could end up like TLC, sign a good one and you could end up like Eddie.

[Eomer]

I am curious what you mean about that 400% number Elidroth, every article I have come across in the past year about record sales is that sales are down, relatively significantly. Around 5-10% over the past two years. Personally I don't think it's due to downloading, though. With DVD's rising in popularity so much, I think people are spending more on them than they were on vhs tapes a few years ago.

But to claim sales are up in the past few years flies in the face of every bit of market research that has come out in the past few years.

Personally, I get pissed off when I go to buy a CD and it has copy protection on it. Two CD's now I have not bought because of it (Ben Harper, Richard Ashcroft). I don't see who the record company thinks they are hurting. They are only punishing the people buying the record. I am sure given a few minutes I would be able to make mp3's out of them anyway. Bleh, it really pisses me off. If I pay the 15 bucks for the CD, I will listen to it in whatever form of media I choose to, goddamnit.

[Andriana Duskrose]

I don't see who the record company thinks they are hurting. They are only punishing the people buying the record. I am sure given a few minutes I would be able to make mp3's out of them anyway.

I think it's the same demographic that computer games, CD-Key/disc in drive/online registration, protection is aimed at. It's not going to stop the most hardcore pirates, but it may stop the joe average consumer who has no idea about how to get around it, and no inclination to spend the time to figure out which warez sites have the cracks, and then applying the cracks everytime the game is patched.


If I pay the 15 bucks for the CD, I will listen to it in whatever form of media I choose to, goddamnit.

I agree, but as we are seeing, all it takes is a few people(well in the case of Kazaa which is at what now? 10 million gigs of avalible files?) to piss on the toliet seat to ruin it for everyone else.

[Eomer]

Yeah, I agree, p2p sharing has created a lot of problems, and I understand the record industry wanting to cut back on it. A good example of how prevalent copying has become is the ratio of burned CD's to bought CD's at a party, or on a camping trip or whatever. Generally I am the only person among many that has bought the majority of the CD's I listen to. Virtually every other CD there has been copied.

But the problem with the copy protection is that it doesn't simply stop someone from copying the music, it punishes whoever bought it. The people who want to download it to begin with will never buy the CD anyway, and will probably have no trouble finding mp3's of it anyway. Whatever though, so far the recording industry has lost two sales from me alone in the past two weeks because of it.

Another example is the "levy" in Canada on blank media like CD-R/RW's etc. First off, not a single cent of that money has made it to an artist yet. And second, they are trying to jack them up and apply it to HD and memory based players. The proposed levies would add about 40-60% of the current price to players like Ipods.

All I know is, I am really leery of what is going to happen in the future with MS OS's. Depending on what happens, things could get ugly if the RIAA manages to seduce MS enough.

[Andriana Duskrose]

But the problem with the copy protection is that it doesn't simply stop someone from copying the music, it punishes whoever bought it. The people who want to download it to begin with will never buy the CD anyway, and will probably have no trouble finding mp3's of it anyway. Whatever though, so far the recording industry has lost two sales from me alone in the past two weeks because of it.

Yeah it sucks for the people who aren't freeloaders. I'd love it if none of my games required the disc in my CD-ROM, or a CD Key, or to be able to burn my games and music CD's for safe keeping.

Hell NWN was crashing when it came out because Infrogames put secure-rom on the game without BioWare's knowledge, and was thus untested. I could've lived without it crashing.

I wish there was an alternative for both sides (non-freeloaders, and record companies) that met 100% of their needs, but I just don't see how it's possible. I'd love to figure out the solution though, since it'd probably make me rich ;)


Another example is the "levy" in Canada on blank media like CD-R/RW's etc. First off, not a single cent of that money has made it to an artist yet. And second, they are trying to jack them up and apply it to HD and memory based players. The proposed levies would add about 40-60% of the current price to players like Ipods.

Yeah, I think the tax is a bit absurd, especially since it's not going to the artists. I do not think this is the record companies fault though, I think it's our wonderful Canadian goverment trying to con it's way into more taxes.

"Eh, one billion dollars disappears, these things happen you know!" - Cretien on gun registration.


All I know is, I am really leery of what is going to happen in the future with MS OS's. Depending on what happens, things could get ugly if the RIAA manages to seduce MS enough.

Will probably be the same things that have been going on for years now (and not just for music CD's), companies trying to protect their investments against theft, with the honest folk caught in the middle.

[Dharrk]

Originally posted by Eomer
All I know is, I am really leery of what is going to happen in the future with MS OS's. Depending on what happens, things could get ugly if the RIAA manages to seduce MS enough.

I'm sure Microsoft would rather stop people from downloading mp3's than stop people from downloading Microsoft's own products.


Originally posted by Eomer
A good example of how prevalent copying has become is the ratio of burned CD's to bought CD's at a party, or on a camping trip or whatever.

Hardly ever, at a party will there be a single REAL CD played out in its entirety, and its not because they don't exist. That example or the example on a camping trip is bad because I'd rather listen to a CD of 20 songs that I like than Bring 20 CD's with 1 song each I like on a camping trip. Waste of space and time to be storing and changing them at a party or camping trip. Not to mention, I'd give two shits if my burned CD's were stolen as opposed to my real ones.

[Andriana Duskrose]

Not to mention, I'd give two shits if my burned CD's were stolen as opposed to my real ones.

That about sums it up.

[Varran]

I actually work within the music industry on a few levels, as a musician (don't even try arguing that a dj isn't a musician), producer, and a&r for a record label.

First thing is that music sales are indeed up and have been for some time... the conflict in reports is just merely accounting discrepancies. I can profit 400k in a year and tell you I lost money, just depends on how good my accountant is (ask the movie industry, they pay royalties and portions of contracts based on box office grosses that are vastly different from the ones they submit to the public as proof of how amazing their latest picture is).

Second, I am very fortunate (and also cursed) in that I don't ever buy cd's (except blanks). The music I listen to is released on vinyl... almost EXCLUSIVELY vinyl. The curse is that each song (with 2-3 variations on each record) costs 12-15 canadian (9US, 5GBP) and I need to buy approximately 30 records a week, every week, to keep up in my chosen profession. This is of course on top of the 50 or so I am sent for free each week. The music industry is a nasty one... Record execs basically tell the general public what they want to hear. Britney Spears slutting around this week, smoking, drinking coke instead of pepsi? Well, meet Avril Lavigne, she sings the same stuff, with the same message (none), but she's cute and dresses different... ALL HAIL THE ANTI-BRITNEY... and the sheep run out and buy 12million copies of her album.

Anything I make I share with people I can trust not to put on napster/kazaa/whatever the new prog is today until after it has been released... as soon as the single is out I have been paid... most artists that I know do not make ANY money from record sales... record companies do... Artists make money from concerts, ad jobs, etc. Yes, the record company took the chance on the artist and helped develop them and turn them into a superstar. Do I feel beholden to them for that... NOT ONE DAMN BIT.

So yes, if you want to support the label by buying that album when you like more than a couple songs on it, feel free.. in fact its probably the moral thing to do. If you want to reward an artist for great work done... go to their website and buy something from them (signed stuff, pics, etc) or go to their concert/see their shows. There is a reason most artists do 200+ shows the first year they come out... its to make all the money they can till the next "new thing" comes out. Sell a billion records, not gonna make you half as much money as touring for a year to sell out crowds.

Don't let their (record labels) crying fool you though. They don't drive mercedes into the garages of their multi-million dollar houses because they are losing money. And if you do feel sorry for them, please go down to your local bank and make lots of transactions, buy mutual funds, deposit, withdraw, ask questions. The poor banks are struggling these days... I mean I think Bank of Montreal here in canada (one of our largest) only improved profits over last year by one percent or less... Sure, they made a billion $ plus, but still... it was no more than a one percent increase over last year.

Some record labels do things differently... depends on the segment of the market, in my segment we release vinyl, and mainly to dj's. Half of the product my label makes is given away to big names so they will play them out, the rest is sold in specialty shops. We make money mainly from selling the license for a song to dj's that want to use it on a compilation album, and when we sign a dj/performer we are also a defacto agent for them and get a 10% cut of their performance fees. We in turn use connections to get their stuff played out, or get them gigs at clubs/parties.

In my particular case our label takes the money we make in the year, pay staff such as secretaries, and nominal bits to ourselves (I pay my cell phone bill with the company money in turn for the years work), then use the rest to throw a mother of a party. Our dj's play, our artists perform, and industry people (and fanclub members, etc) get to come for free. Basically we're just a bunch of hippies (or ravers). In the end its all about the music, who gives a rats ass if we become millionaires, lets enjoy the music.

sorry... that turned out about 16pages longer than I wanted it to... I get kinda passionate talking about music and ramble on. I just hope I made a little sense.

see ya in game