ML - N ToV Nameds 10/5 [Archive]

Andaas

10-07-2001, 10:19 PM

I am a bit concerned about this myself. ML originally posted requesting a weekend to "test the waters" in NToV. Viewing ML's web page shows that you were fairly successful and killed well over half of the spawns, and Monday morning's patch was publically known for most of last week.

Had ML been forced to deal with an emergency patch after killing only 3 or 4 dragons, that is one thing... but if I'm not mistaken, as of 9:00 pacific on Sunday, you have killed: Eashen, Aaryonar, Feshlak, Dagarn, Kreizenn, Koi'doken, Lady Miranella, and Jorlleag, 8 of the 15 named spawns in North ToV. I will wager that you killed at least 1 more dragon tonight after I logged.

The patch that Hoss dealt with afforded us enough time to clear Eashen, Aaryonar, Feshlak, Dagarn, (and maybe Kreizenn, I forget for sure), which was more of an inconvenience to us, but of course, the emergency patch was announced late on the 2nd day of our raid (not several days before).

There are 3 guilds that are NToV capable right now, and I think Vindication is due their turn should they want it. ML restarting after a scheduled patch is going to hold up the other guilds that desire to kill in NToV.

Rohaise

10-07-2001, 11:35 PM

Andaas, as I posted in another thread, Vulak and Vyemm have not even respawned yet because of the duration of *your* raid.

We will be coming back after the patch to finish the job, since they still haven't spawned.

Screw the loot, it's about clearing the zone. And we are going to get our opportunity.

It's not our fault it took you so long to clear them.

Do you want to discuss shortening the alotted time from now on? Is 7 days too long?

Andaas

10-08-2001, 12:23 AM

Rohaise, did ML clear all remaining spawns barring Vyemm and Vulak that hadn't respawned? After reading your post here, I logged Andaas in to ToV and checked a few NToV spawns with my pet - I found Lady Nevedaria, Cekenar, and Zlexak still alive as of this writing.

Since these dragons are still alive *before* the patch, it hardly seems that the Hoss raid has delayed ML's ability to get to Vyemm and Vulak, since you still have several dragons remaining to kill - unless you intended to run your raid right up until 3 am pacific to kill them all.

ML's initial request for NToV was to "test the waters". That post was later edited stating ML would be there a week (which I had not seen until today after reading Baramos post).

Considering that Quintall edited his post 6 days after the initial post, there is no way anyone in this forum would have thought to re-read that post (as edits don't get flagged as new posts).

So basically, ML drops a surprise on everyone that they are going to continue clearing NToV again post patch, after clearing 9 of 15 dragons. I don't see how this is fair to the other guilds that desire to hunt here, nor how it is fair to another guild who may have already made plans post patch.

Oh, and just so you know, Hoss has had NToV raids cut short due to scheduled patches as well. When those happened, we stepped aside after clearing 9 to 12 of the named so that Vindication could take a shot - this includes the previous times we had cleared all but Vyemm and Vulak.

*edit* As of 11:46 pm pacific, Lady N, Zlex, and Cekenar are all still alive and well. Please explain again how Hoss delayed ML's ability to kill Vulak before the patch?

Screw the loot, it's about clearing the zone. And we are going to get our opportunity.

You're right, it is about clearing the zone - and ML will get their chance to clear the zone in due time like everyone else. Please don't forget that Vindication has been itching to get back into NToV as well, and they ended up getting shot into the back of the rotation due to scheduling conflicts. Due to scheduled patches, Hoss had to back out of 2 very successful NToV raids because we had an informal agreement with Vindication at the time so that neither of us would hog the zone. Vindication was doing NToV for 3 days leading up to the last patch, Hoss took the zone on the following patch, and ML picked up respawn (more of which spawned than was killed in 3 days). I think its fair to let the next in line take their turn.

Rohaise

10-08-2001, 01:03 AM

This is very simple.

ML did NOT get a full spawn to clear because of the patch happening before Hoss's kills respawned.

A rotation slot ensures a chance to kill a full spawn.

Therefore, ML will be back after the patch to kill our full spawn as promised by IGB rules.

As for whether things would have been different if Vulak or Vyemm *had* spawned, that point is moot, because 1) they did not, 2) we still only had 3 days because of the "Emergency" (DAoC) patch change, and 3) you are forgetting the hours lost due to Hoss purposely training (yes we have screenshots, logs, and petitions to prove it) our people at the ToV entrance with Sontalak and Esorpa.

I don't understand this sort of terrorism on your part, forcing us to delay our raid by training us. You then claim we did could not have even killed Vyemm and Vulak had they spawned *which they did not* because we had other dragons to kill - which were delayed by your trains.

ML will be back in ToV after the patch to complete our turn in the rotation, of a FULL spawn, not a half spawn waiting on dragons to repop from a 7 day long Hoss raid.

The only solution I see to this is limiting raids to 3-4 days, which was proposed early by Vindication, but then shot down by Hoss.

For now, the 70+ camped ML will be continuing our ToV North raid on Monday afternoon after the patch, as planned, and scheduled, and agreed to here according to the IGB rules. If rotation rules for this zone are decided to be in need of a change, then let's continue to discuss until we come up with a mutually reasonable solution.

But it would be completely unfair to change the existing rules until the current rotation period has completed.

Hoss got their emergency patch.

ML got our emercency patch.

And heck, by golly maybe even Vindication will get an emergency patch.

In fact, it's fairly obvious that until someone is capable of clearing the zone in a single day (never), EVERY guild that is up before a patch will either: 1) Get some double spawns, or else 2) be screwed out of the best dragons in the zone.

So how will we handle this?

I don't know the answer yet, that's what we're here to discuss. But whatever the solution let's make sure it's fair to all guilds on the rotation by allowing a full rotation to complete before making changes.

My first inclination is to have a sub-rotation for those times that we know not all dragons will spawn before a patch.

Primary rotation for full spawn, and a secondary rotation for partial pre-patch spawns. The only thing that can break this is a true emergency patch with no warning, which can be counted in the secondary rotation after it has occured.

That means Vindication is up for the next full spawn after ML's.

Vindication is also up for the next partial spawn.

Thoughts?

Andaas

10-08-2001, 02:25 AM

My thoughts on this are simple:

ML originally requested NToV for the weekend, and quietly changed their tune *BEFORE* even committing and/or agreeing to my proposal of NToV rotation rules.

We're still thinking about this, in Mythic.

It appears to be reasonable, at first glance.

We're going to take our Oct 5 turn in ToV before we commit to anything, however.

Having no experience there, yet, we want to get the lay of the land.

Baramos

Although I did just see that Quintall's post in that thread on 9/24 did mention spending more time in NToV than the originally requested weekend - I guess I missed that too (possibly because it was also edited same-day).

Believe it or not, other people PLANNED around ML's being in that zone for only the weekend, as originally proposed. When the patch was first planned for Tuesday morning, I had planned on taking Hoss into NToV on Monday night to do some pre-patch clean up, if there was anything around. Vindication I'm sure made plans to start in NToV following the patch (originally Tuesday, now Monday).

I suppose ML will be out of NToV after the emergency patch Wednesday though, since that will unfortunately hinder the following guild's schedule to start NToV on the 8th day after your raid started.

Please also note that Hoss made sure that the NToV spawns were up and available for your raid this weekend - yes, several of them spawned during the afternoon and evening today, however, those spawns were indeed up before ML was ready to kill them (the fact that all 5 of the back dragons were up before any were killed tonight proves this fact to me).

While Vindication doesn't have a scheduled starting date for NToV (since it was patch dependant in their eyes), they will now be required to wait until the 15th to begin their raid -- their raid should technically start no later than the 12th, and in my opinion, on patch day.

Regarding trains into ToV - I don't know a thing about it, was out of town this weekend. I did read your post Rohaise, and I will comment that Esorpa is not a static spawn, Esorpa patrols through the ToV scar, but tends to get stuck on the rock at the end of the scar. Why you would think that Esorpa being trained into ToV something unusual is beyond me, as I have been attacked by this dragon while running just outside of the ToV zone structure on multiple occasions.

Hoss has suffered many deaths at the ToV zone from being trained by people of all the major guilds here. Hoss has also suffered the same deaths (and insane video lag), when returning to our bind point in the middle of an ML Sontalak raid (just the buffing stage too, heh). Although you guys did buff Parak once on a Sont raid, I think he appreciated that.

Baramos1

10-08-2001, 09:22 AM

We didn't quietly change anything.

We posted here, September 24, that we'd be staying the whole week.

No one objected. If you didn't read the post, if you missed it, that's just tough shit. That edit was done 10 days prior to us going in there.

Look, every single time ML starts doing an area that had been previously a monopoly by Hoss or Hoss +, you guys scream and whine.

Grow up. I'm sick of you crap. If you want to make the server FFA keep it up.

We're going in, as planned, as posted.

Baramos

Sirensa

10-08-2001, 09:54 AM

1) Monday's patch is hardly an emergency patch as it was posted near a week ago, well before your raid started. I posted on October 3rd that there would be a patch. Clearly this is not a surprise to you.

2) Despite your logs and petitions of our *assumed* intentional training, even the GM denied that it was intentional. Despite your efforts to tattle us off the server, we were not punished, as in the eyes of the GM, we did nothing wrong. We are not responsible for delaying your raid.

3) In the future when you edit a post to change your plans one week after you have written the post, please be kind enough to bump it or flag it otherwise so that everyone here does not need to make a habit of reading every single post ever made on these boards every day, in case something has been editted well after it was originally posted.

4) So as per your posts, re-edited on September 24th, we can expect you out of NToV after the 12th of this month?

5) Your call us terrorists, yet threaten to make the server FFA. I would think the comment "grow up" does not apply to Hoss alone.

Baramos1

10-08-2001, 09:59 AM

Sirensa -

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Awhile back, you threatened the other guilds on this board with training if you couldn't get CoH to the entrance of ToV.

Since that idiotic post of yours, we've made it a habit to always offer CoH to Hoss and any other guild.

Regardless, you still made good on your threat to train us.

Don't give me that BS about what the server GM said. You could have avoided it with a simple tell. Instead you trained us.

Pathetic.

In my mind its clear that you were, once again, tired of the "fucking zergs" (your favorite phrase) getting into the territory that you'd urinated all over. So, you took some petty revenge.

Get used to us. The "fucking zergs" are gonna be all over ToV North, and hiving in PoM, too.

Have a good day.

Baramos

Sirensa

10-08-2001, 10:20 AM

Look, if you cannot say anything without resorting to filth and potty talk, maybe you should not say anything at all?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

It really is unfortunate that relations have progressed to a point that we cannot even speak to each other without cursing. Unfortunate that even accidents are treated as intentional acts of malicious slaughter.

Baramos1

10-08-2001, 10:43 AM

Sirensa -

You are a liar and have been proven to be a liar on this board more than once.

Furthermore, your propensity for foul language is known server-wide. I've seen some disgusting logs of your conversations with other guilds threatening them with FFA and training using every nasty, filthy word imaginable.

You may convince some folks that you didn't mean to train anyone.

You may point to the server GM's "decision."

Doesn't change the fact that you're full of it.

Baramos

Sirensa

10-08-2001, 10:54 AM

Again..

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Now can we get past the name calling and work here or would you like to continue your childish antics?

Baramos1

10-08-2001, 11:10 AM

No name-calling going on. Just a recitation of the facts as I see them.

No more work to be done here.

ML is going to be in NToV.

Our goal is Vulak. With the potential new MOB changes, as of this patch we may not get there.

Mythic Legion doesn't have someone with bugged faction in NToV to run freely to see if any other changes have been made, either. Don't worry, we don't have any current plans to petition a GM about anyone else who does, either.

To be perfectly clear, however, if we make progress to Vyemm, Vulak by Friday, we intend to stay there and kill them, too, even if it means a couple more days.

Baramos

Andaas

10-08-2001, 02:00 PM

For the record.

Hoss and Vindication only make comment about ML moving into our "territory" because ML doesn't seem to respect the private agreements that were made between our guilds long ago toward these zones.

Do I agree that the 7 day raid period is a bit long for NToV? Sure. However, I still think it is fair for all involved, and believe it or not, I designed that rule with ML in mind, since you all were the newcomer to the zone.

We do in fact need to work something out with how patches are to be handled with an extended raid period like this. And while I do agree that the intent of "clearing the zone" is an important thing, I also feel that the success of a raid needs to be based on a percentage cleared/time spent and not on whether the raid still has more time remaining.

Hoss/Vindication originally chose to share NToV for the most part. You should have seen the fights we had over NToV when Hoss went in the first time, not quite as bloody as this, but there was a lot of fighting about it.

In the end, Vindication is the guild getting pushed aside in this situation. As I stated already, ML is not going to bend on this matter anyway, so lets put all this petty BS behind us about training, etc., and work towards a solution on how to handle mid-raid patches.

Vindication, I recommend that you post a planned raid date for NToV.

Baramos1

10-08-2001, 03:42 PM

Well, Andaas has made a nice editorial, and then a proposal. I'll do the same.

And from the left, my "for the record" statement.

I think I've noted before, on this board, that any "secret-handshake" agreements between Hoss and any other guild are irrelevant, even if they extend back as far as the Stone Age.

I asked Hoss to post a proposed set of rules for ToV N long ago, because Vind had all but disappeared from the face of the server, and because Mythic Legion wanted to avoid any territorial nonsense.

We took those rules for a test run this week. Seems Hoss doesn't like their own rules.

Hoss can twist and turn and bob and weave all they want; fact of the matter is that (i) they proposed rules, and now don't want to live with them when it does not suit them and (ii) we gave Hoss the courtesy of starting over again on a patch. Five MOBs, eight MOBs, what's the difference as a matter of principle?

I'm tired of the hypocrisy of Hoss, coming on this board and talking about "fair play" when at one moment they'll point to the rules or talk about what a server GM said to cover their asses when they've acted dishonorably, and at another moment talk about general tenets of "fairness".

Hoss is the most two-faced guild on this server, in my opinion, having used many guilds on the server at one time or another, in some way, when they're short-handed.

In my personal opinion, the leaders of that guild, while intelligent, are nothing more than liars and users.

It's also my personal opinion that Andass, the self-proclaimed "fire starter because he's bored" also tries to obstruct ML's progress, at every opportunity. I expect he pulls the legs off of ants in his idle time, not playing EQ, too.

I think his post above, under the guise of "being good to Vindication" was just another example of this.

News Flash. ML isn't taking your shit anymore.

Ok. Editorial is over. Proposal commencing.

I agree with Andaas, and it's time to put this BS training behind us, make sure it doesn't happen anymore, and to continue to work on the very good initial proposal by Hoss, to ensure that every guild on the server has an established, agreed-upon, tested set of rules to work from when entering ToV N.

As per the other thread, ML will offer up any amendments for review by Sunday this week.

Baramos

Andaas

10-08-2001, 04:51 PM

My only comment Baramos is that ML had implied that you were going to "test the waters in NToV this weekend" and then post your thoughts on my proposal. Quintall made a change to his original NToV post with regards to ML extending their raid 6 days after his initial post - there was no way anyone else in this forum would be aware of that.

ML dropped a bomb on the other guilds involved yesterday by posting left and right that you would be in NToV the rest of the week. Nobody knew of this until your post yesterday.

I assumed that since ML hadn't agreed to my proposal as of yet, that you all had still planned on testing the waters, as I think others here thought as well.

As for "secret-handshakes", well, when only 2 guilds are involved with sharing a particular area, its a lot easier to discuss terms privately than dragging it out in this forum. Why bother 10 guilds with something that only concerns 2 - ML had made no visible intention to raid into NToV until posting their desire to raid on the weekend of October 5th, at which time the discussion was moved to this forum for all to take part in.

Sirensa

10-08-2001, 05:23 PM

As previously stated, cut with name calling and slander, it has no place here.

Re: Andaas' NTOV Proposal -

Andaas' proposal of NTOV guidelines was just that. A proposal. One that was not agreed to and not made as a rule. There was very little mention of what happens on a patch that happens mid-raid except perhaps having an established guild step in to clear up leftovers.

If we took his proposal to the letter, which we should not, since it was not agreed to ,and is still being discussed, then ML has 7 days in a block to do all they can in NTOV - that leaves Monday-Thursday for them to finish their raid. You started last Friday, you claim to be finishing this Friday, works for me. Whatever.

A rotation slot ensures a chance to kill a full spawn.

Therefore, ML will be back after the patch to kill our full spawn as promised by IGB rules
You keep making comments that we are not abiding by the NTOV rules. What rules? Where is it promised you get a full spawn? That is what we have been trying to work out. Obviously we missed a key point in discussion regarding what to do when there is a scheduled or emergency patch. (Today's patch, while rescheduled, was certainly not an emergency patch as there was well over 24 hours notice that servers would be down and reset.)

ML will be back in ToV after the patch to complete our turn in the rotation, of a FULL spawn, not a half spawn waiting on dragons to repop from a 7 day long Hoss raid.

The only solution I see to this is limiting raids to 3-4 days, which was proposed early by Vindication, but then shot down by Hoss.
Assume we are abiding by Andaas' proposal, then each guild is entitled to a 7 day rotation through the month of October, then restarting as a 4 day rotation in November. How is this an example of Hoss shooting down Vindication's idea?

We took our 7 days, ML is taking 7 days, Vindication should be getting 7 days coming up as well. By that time we should be able to hammer out a fair proposal that everyone is willing to work with.

What I will press very hard for in our final draft of "NTOV rotation guidelines" is that each guild starts the raid with a 100% full pop, so that situations like this do not start in the future. If that means forcing each guild to finish their raid in 4-5 days to let things naturally respawn to full pop by the time it is the next guild's turn, then so be it. If we have to rotate respawn or half-cleared zones on a different rotation schedule than a full post-patch repop, or full spawn re-pop, then that might be something to consider as well.

Baramos1

10-08-2001, 05:28 PM

I assume you read this forum.

September 24 we posted we'd be in there a week. Where do you think we got that idea? From your proposal, to be explicit.

ML had no intention to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. That's not how we operate. When we posted we were going in, Vindication wasn't even around.

The fact that you were unaware of a post we made on this board, clearly stating exactly what our intentions were 10 days before we went in there is not our fault, either.

Had someone else posted their intentions to go in there this week, you can believe I'd have jumped right up, and pointed to that post.

The reasons for Roh and I both posting yesterday, was because we'd heard the rumors that another guild would be coming in today, patch day, as if they hadn't seen our post.

We posted here to clear up that confusion.

Baramos

Baramos1

10-08-2001, 05:38 PM

Sirensa -

I agree. We need to get a lot hammered out.

As to this specific raid, however, it is ML's intention to get to Vulak.

If we get to Friday night end, and have made significant progress to Vulak, we're going to continue and kill him, because we have EARNED the right to do so.

However, if we suck, and get our asses kicked all week, we'll get out after Friday.

Baramos

Thanatoz

10-08-2001, 05:57 PM

why not just come out and say that ML will be in ntov until Vulak is dead? If it takes 10days then so be it. I mean your all jackasses arguing about complete bullshit. One week its ST now its Ntov. What the hell is wrong with you people. Get in, shit, wipe your ass and get off the pot.

Your worse then a bad married couple. You scream at eachother constantly but never say a god damn thing.

Fucking christ. Each gets 7 days period. ML started on friday they end on a friday. Vind starts on sat and ends on a sat. Hoss sun-sun. How hard is that? If you get patched, awww so sad for you. I mean after all you have 7 days. Im pretty sure you guys can mow through it in 3.

Just stop with the constant bitch session for once and work soemthing out.

Andaas

10-08-2001, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by Baramos1
ML had no intention to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. That's not how we operate. When we posted we were going in, Vindication wasn't even around.

Actually when it was posted, Vindication was in NToV killing spawns. They had killed Aaryonar, Koi'Doken, and Lady M prior to the patch that Hoss went in.

Originally posted by Baramos1
As to this specific raid, however, it is ML's intention to get to Vulak.

If we get to Friday night end, and have made significant progress to Vulak, we're going to continue and kill him, because we have EARNED the right to do so.

Significant progress to Vulak meaning killing everything but him, correct? That was the intent of the Vulak clause. Also, if we are playing by the rules proposed, your raid should end on Thursday night, unless the Vulak clause comes into play (ie, you kill all other named before then end of the raid on Thursday - day 7). I know how you ML people like to adhere to the rules as strictly as possible.

Hoss did this on our raid - inclusive of the emergency patch, we had Vyemm dead on Monday, day 7. Vulak died on day 8.

Baramos1

10-08-2001, 07:21 PM

Hmm, I could be mistaken about whether Vind was around. I don't think so, though. Felt like they they were still on their hiatus, to my recollection. I don't have the time to look it up at the moment. You go ahead and do that, Andaas.

As for what reasonable means, we'll definitely be out of there before Vind comes in for their turn, on Monday.

I'm tired of this bullshit arguing Andaas. We're going to attempt Vulak, even if it means we attempt him on Sunday. I don't think it will take that long, but you never know.

If you guys come in and try and take Vulak after we work our asses off to get there this week, it just means FFA, from now on.

That clear enough?

I don't think it needs to come to that, however. Once we get our rule-set hammered into place we'll never have this discussion again.

Baramos

Andaas

10-08-2001, 11:44 PM

Not necessarily trying to argue, but I was under the impression that we were still locking in to the 7 day raid, irregardless of a patch. Which was including both before and after the patch.

Whatever, I could care less anymore -- ML will do whatever they want anyway - go ahead.

Sirensa

10-09-2001, 10:07 AM

Baramos,

Just do your raid in the allotted time of 7 days that everyone on this forum seems to feel is fair until we can actually come to an agreement. ML refusing to acknowledge or abide by prelimiary agreements until after they take as long in NToV as they like to clear is ridiculous. If you need an extra day (8th day) to attempt Vulak after clearing everything BUT him, fine. Hoss will not come in and steal your Vulak, regardless of your assumptions.

If you have not cleared to Vulak, by the end of your 7th day in the zone, you really need to move out and let someone else start their turn. Even members from guilds who have yet to step into NToV have said that 7 days seems a fair turn. Why isn't it?

And don't make threats. That is the second time within the course of 24 hours you have threatened to turn Druzzil into a FFA server because the people on this forum are pressing to work out a situation.

*edited for clarity*

Quintall_ML

10-09-2001, 10:33 AM

Sirensa,

Basically, we're busting ass, the same as you did, to get to Vulak. We'll have that accomplished before Friday.

We're going to attempt Vulak, we've worked for it. As someone once mentioned, any guild that gets that far has earned that right.

Stop pushing it, it's been resolved, ML intends to be done in 7 days, the only possible factor that could take it over that will be Vulak attempts.

Thanatoz

10-09-2001, 10:34 AM

Yes please lets not threaten the server with FFA. I really dont understand that reasoning. It would clearly effect all guilds involved, not just Hoss.

Baramos1

10-09-2001, 11:20 AM

There is no threat, just a statement of a fact.

I can think of no reason that any fair-minded person would want to leverage off the sweat of another guild working its collective ass off to achieve one of the toughest goals in the game.

Yes, even if it takes until Sunday.

Mythic Legion is in NToV learning the ropes, dying multiple times, figuring out strategies.

There is no way I'm going to allow ML to be shoved around on this matter, so stop pushing it.

In the scheme of things, it doesn't really matter to Hoss whether ML succeeds on Friday or Sunday.

And do not preach to me about FFA Sirensa, as that is exactly what Hoss threatened during your last ST run, until ML backed away and said ok, take your "pass", which both guilds knew wasn't really up.

It was a diplomatic nicety, that, to prevent strained relations, or an FFA situation.

We didn't push it.

I advise you not to push us.

Baramos

edit : spelling

Baramos1

10-09-2001, 11:43 AM

BTW, just to be clear.

Like I said early on, in this nonsense, if ML is dragging its ass in there, people leaving, doing poorly - whatever, we have no intention of sticking around just to "make a point."

I'm being adamant on the point of an attempt on Vulak, only if it seems we have a fair chance at getting there.

If on Friday it looks like we don't have a chance in hell, we'll bail.

We don't want to waste the spawn, by any means.

Bara

Andaas

10-09-2001, 12:58 PM

Hoss has never, either privately or publically, stated anything about wanting, forcing, or creating a FFA environment on this server. Whatever you read into over the ST statements made on our private forums is quite far off base.

At the time that statement was made, the officers of Hoss felt that we were being forced by ML into doing the ST warders, ON THEIR TERMS. Basically, Hoss requested that we be able to do the warders on an upcoming Saturday, and every ML rep on this forum basically said that if we didn't kill them on the day they spawned, that we were in fact passing on our rotation turn (on something that had not in fact been on rotation previously).

In an act of pure anger and frustration, I made a post to MY GUILD, about taking an action to show a force of power to other guilds. This would have been done so that Hoss could post in advance a request to do the warders on a specific date, and help to ensure that we could do the warders on OUR terms, and not YOUR terms ML.

ML as of late has been policing these forums to a degree that has become almost annoying. Yes, its important that mobs are killed in a timely manner, but the last thing anyone wants is for Rohaise to "pop in" to these forums and post that "mob soandso was killed 6 days 21 hours ago, and may be due to spawn soon, so guild X, are you going to kill it if it happens to spawn on time, if not ML will go".

I think it would be nice for everyone involved if a few of the representatives from ML would take a step back and look at how the other guilds here operate, and do the same.

Baramos1

10-09-2001, 01:12 PM

You guys asked for a rotation, and you got it. As usual, you're forgetting that simple fact.

Therefore you were subject to the same rules as everyone else is on rotations. You agreed to those rules - why should we let you waste our time by letting spawns get delayed, just because you're not up for them.

You choked on the rules, cried, said we're going to FFA.

ML, not wanting a stupid race to the spawns, said take your bye, knowing full well you'd taken one before your month was over.

Part of the point I've been implicitly making with all this nightmare of the last couple days, is you will get treated by ML, how you treat them.

Hoss, except for a very short early time on the server, has mocked ML, impeded us, KS'd us, threatened us with FFA.

You're being treated in kind, and now you're squealing.

Hey, I'm ready to stop this bullshit, anytime you guys are. Next time you're ready to post one of your patented, "Ahem, I don't believe this is how I want to see ML do things, " posts, just say "Hey bro, good luck on Vulak."

You'll very quickly see us doing the same thing.

Baramos

Sirensa

10-09-2001, 01:59 PM

Hey bro, good luck on Vulak.

Baramos1

10-09-2001, 03:04 PM

Hey Sirensa -

You know what.

Maybe we were kind of being dicks about ST.

How about you guys do ST on the weekends, your turn in the rotation, from now on.

Baramos

Andaas

10-09-2001, 03:06 PM

Please quote, paste, link to, or otherwise, how I or any other official representative of Hoss has ever threatened a FFA on this server. ML has done it repeatedly lately.

If you don't recall, after Sirensa requested adding the warders to the rotation list, I requested numerous times (before Hoss had even had our turn), that we remove the warders from the rotation list and move them to the unrotated uber list. ML denied this over and over, telling me that I asked that warders be on the rotation and now must live with it.

Thanks for being able to work with others so well.

Baramos1

10-09-2001, 03:10 PM

Andaas -

Sirensa and I have made a tenuous peace.

I suggest you delete your last post, and this response, before we get into it again.

Bara

Baramos1

10-09-2001, 04:01 PM

Ok, I'll go ahead and respond.

Andaas said:

Hoss will be in ST tomorrow, with our without ML. If you intend to go into the zone, it will just incur a silly race to the warders as has been seen before in other zones. I don't want to see that, as I'm sure you don't.

-------

That's FFA buddy. You can try and deny it or skitter around it however you want, but we both know what you meant. We also both know you didn't really have a pass coming when I gave it to you after you made that absurd FFA statement. It was a gift from ML to Hoss to avoid FFA.

Let me give you some more examples of "working well with others".

Vickauzia, ML cleric, camping Ragefire 80 hours, and then getting KS'd by Hoss's Migi. Hoss claimed some BS about 'having the right character camped there.'

Hoss KS'ing a Klandicar under ML's nose, mocking them in OOC as they were doing it, as ML recovered from a wipeout on Kland attempt #1. Hoss excuse? Gee, it's not on rotation.

Hoss asking to be placed on rotation for Sont/Kland last AUGUST and never ONCE killing either one of them, since. But hey, rules were rules. We had to wait our turn in a cycle, just to the amusement of Hoss, I'm sure.

Do you ever plan on killing Kland? If not, get the fuck off the rotation.

Hey, what about Sirensa's nice train the other night of Sont onto us. Are you telling me an intelligent person like Sirensa couldn't have worked something out so as not to train? Would it have been too much to ask for a response on this board from Sirensa saying "Oops, sorry Roh.. I fucked up."

Great working with others, indeed.

Let me tell you straight out. ML hates Hoss's guts for the above types of things, which btw aren't just limited to those particular things, but are just examples.

Don't bother denying any of it, because it doesn't matter what you say about it at this point. You guys have proven to be adept at spinning things for your own benefit.

You want to know why ML locks you guys onto a rotation policy? Because you've fucked us with it in the past. Never again. In fact, the feeling in ML goes, give them a taste of their own medicine.

Restrain yourself from starting flames on this board, just because it amuses you.

You ask for a kick in the ass, then you bellyache when you get it.

You want good relations with ML? You need to be prepared to back off once in awhile. We'll do the same. It's give and take.

This arguing is stupid. Ridiculous.

You ask that ML work well with Hoss? Take a step, pal. Show us you're willing to work with ML. Stop acting like pussies. Stop the bullshit rotations. Give us tells in-game. Take a step forward.

Baramos

Andaas

10-09-2001, 04:30 PM

Beyond the arguing that we have been doing, I do believe that I have taken steps to try and work with ML and others in this forum.

Explain to me why my repeated requests to move the warders from the rotation to the unrotated list (for the benefit of EVERYONE), has been denied. What has it done, except to force Hoss into ST on a day that we weren't really prepared to do so. Since then, Hoss has repeatedly passed on our ST turn, due to other raid commitments and a general lack of need to go there.

This specific instance is an example of my trying to do something for the better of both ML and Hoss, and ML shoving it in our face because we felt forced to request a rotation.

I won't dispute that yes, Hoss has made things difficult in the past with regards to Klandicar. Of course, Hoss was not alone in those actions, but ML chose to single us out as being in the wrong over that event. Also, the specific Klandicar KS incident you mention still specifically showed that Hoss was UP for that particular spawn, and ML was in fact stealing our spawn.

As for Hoss killing Klandicar, yes, we will kill him when the timing is right. Getting ST keys is not our "top priority" by any means, but it is a priority, so that means that Klandicar will get pushed aside to do other things that generate a better payoff toward the guild as a whole. This means though that if we have plans for a night when Klandicar is up, that we will more than likely try to squeeze Klandicar in after those plans have finished, and may end up passing and/or failing if we don't have the right numbers at that time. An inconvenience yes, but something that we all need to deal with in scheduling, etc.

It was not Hoss that originally fucked with ML on rotation schedules, etc. If anything, I have stood up for ML more in the past than many others. You all see what you want to see, and that is fine.

Thanatoz

10-09-2001, 04:34 PM

I think ML and Hoss need to goto timeout. Both shouldnt post anything at all on this forum unless its directed towards another guild besides eachother. In fact you all shouldnt post a god damn thing unless its X mob dead on y date.

Your all completely incompetant to work this out right now. So I shall mediate. Why? fuck if I know. It really doesnt effect me right now but one day it will.

Ntov will be 7 days per guild. No ifs, ands or buts. I dont care if your guild week gets 7 patches. 7 days. All the mobs are on 7 day respawn cycles besides Vulak. 7 fucking days. Get it? Now please shut the hell up.

7 days.

For the love of god just shut up! dont post anymore! no more! and when your gone, stay gone or you be gone.

shhhh

shhhh

www.shhh.com