As a guild that intends to start their foray into Nwing ToV in the foreseeable near future, I do have some interest in this debate. Some points that I see from my rather neutral (ie, uninvolved) position that I thought I would share my views on.
The unhappiness with spawns not being up on time, as Rohaise mentioned, seems moot and moronic to me. It is not the responsibility of other guilds to make plans that are convenient to each other's raiding schedule, it is a courtesy we extend. Nowhere do I see that we have to kill any mob by x time so that the next guild in rotation won't have to kill him at 4 in the afternoon due to turnout when he spawns again. If Hoss spent 7 days in ToV and killed everything by the 8th, that's it. If it all spawned on the 8th day of the next guild's raid, then tough shit, it's your responsibility to kill the shit as it spawns, not the other guilds to kill it according to when you want them to spawn. On most spawns we are given 24 hours to kill the mob. If the mob dies the second it dings 24 hours, I'd laugh my ass off at the next guild if they openly bitched and claimed they weren't given fair turn at it should it spawn when they don't have the numbers. It's called life, deal with it.
It's pretty simple. If there are 15 dragons that are to die in a 7 day period, it doesn't matter what day they spawn on, you have 7 days to kill or you fail/pass. Period. No extensions if you don't reach your goal by x day, if a time is posted to kill the mobs by and you fail to meet it, you Fail. It's the same exact thing with the 24 hour spawn rule. Hrm, should probably be mentioned that the once a month bye would pertain to the start of the raid, ie, the day your raid begins. if you want to push it one day up, use your bye, that's it for the month. It should not be an extension of the time or used on any day in the middle of. Killing anything in NToV is starting the raid, imo. if you fail 10 times at Aary and decide you don't have enough on, you don't get your bye. You have your week long foray and your out.
On the emergency patch deal or a zone crash perhaps, These are also a part of life. Every guild deals with them. If you have more than 24 hours notice on any patch, that patch and any raids are irrelavant. For Nwing purposes, if you kill every dragon but Vyemm 4 days into your raid, there is a scheduled/emergency patch on the 5th and full respawn, you have till the end of your original 7 days to kill them up to vulak, not another aditional 7 days. I also think that regardless of the number of patches or whatnot during your raid, you get 7 (seven complete and full) days from the Day you start to finish your trek into Nwing. If they patch every time Aary is dropped after the first, the guild gets 7 days in Nwing. If you kill everything but Vulak every day due to zone resets or patches, lucky you, you get 7 days in Nwing. 7 Full and Complete days. Having to pull out because another guild doesn't want you getting loot is gay, it was agreed on 7 days in nwing, 7 days is what you get, you don't get an emergency patch at 4 days and have to pull out because you were ahead of schedule, and get penalized for moving the rotation faster, you get SEVEN DAYS. As it changes later on that's great, but lets at least pretend we are being fair.
Training is lame to blame raid problems on. Newbies pull giants through tormax pulls to WL zone, people are fighting for xp in icewel and aggro dain and die and hold up the raid, blah blah blah accidents happen. Claiming you were trained and that it merits an extension of a raid is BS pure and simple, period. Sontalak gets trained to the ToV zone all the time, saying it was done maliciously is like saying someone pulled skeletons on you at the newbie log in neriak. It's childish and makes you sound whiney. As for escorpa of the ring coming with Sontalak, um, duh, he paths around in the ToV scar and gets stuck on the rock, but he most definately does path. if you aggro sont and make the circular sweep to give you time to run in, there's a good chance you'll aggro him. Like I said, this doesn't even sound remotely intentional, and it's silly to claim it is.
Hoss got 8 days in NToV and cleared their first time, first time on DRo for that matter. Am I to understand that other guilds will Not be given the 7 day learning period that ML and Hoss are so vehemently adhering to, once October ends? I think it needs to be said, and I'm pretty sure other non hoss/ml/vindi guilds will agree, if you had 7 days, we deserve 7 days as well our first time through. While it may seem acceptable to you now to change it after you have learned the zone, I do NOT find it accceptable to limit the guilds that aren't in there during your time frame (and a limited timeframe at that) This isn't like other rotations in this respect, as lopping 4 days off Hoss' raid would have caused it to fail. If Hoss and Mythic Legion spend 7 days learning/clearing their first time through, all other IGB guilds should be given the same consideration, BUT still adhere to the 2 day Aary clause. And as far as I'm concerned, Claiming 7 days and being unable to even get into Nwing deserves the removal of your first time grace period of 7 days and puts you on the 4 day schedule. Ie, don't attempt it if you don't think you can do it. Other guilds are waiting on these spawns, if you don't think you can drop aary in 2 days, don't waste time on the rotation with asking for 7 days until you are sure you can kill the suckah.
And most importantly, cut the FFA bullshit please. As huge as ML is, you don't really want every other guild on the server screwing up your raids intentionally, and as small as hoss is, a single add or two can spell disaster. I'm not threatening, I'm informing, because do you really think other guilds will appreciate having to compete with each other and race to every spawn because 2 guilds couldn't play nice? No. The IGB is here to prevent this lameass kind of behavior. D-ro has too many high level players and guilds to do friendly ffa, it will be very unfriendly. My guild won't train or screw with your raids, but I don't want anyone screwing with mine either. The IGB is the little shell around us that keeps us safe.. from each other, and lets us share and have fun.. with each other. If everyone else on the IGB can respect that, you can too.
There is no need for fine details on stuff. Generalize and stick to it, that's how every other rotated spawn is treated. Details lead to arguements over the exact interpretation, and the general meaning is lost. Treat Nwing like this and you won't have arguements. Your first raid in Nwing starts when you kill the first mob in Ntov. You have 2 days to kill Aary, if you don't, you forfeit your turn and leave Nwing. If you do, and it's your first trip there, you get 7 days from your raid's start to clear EVERY THING (skipping is ghey) through Vyemn. If it's not your first time in Nwing, you have 4 days to accomplish all nwing goals. If you clear it before the scheduled end of your raid by more than a day, you get till the end of your scheduled raid to kill Vulak. If you clear it less than a day before the end of your scheduled raid, you get one additional day to try and kill Vulak, pass or fail you leave when that day closes. The next guild on the rotation can come in at any point point after the alloted time, not before. When Aaryonar spawns next is the next guild's rotation. You get the full period of your allocated raid time to screw around as you wish in Nwing ToV, be it the starting 7 day raid or the normal rotation 4 day raid. Patches, scheduled or not, merely extend the time period by the length of the patch due to not being able to log on. You can do whatever you like and kill whatever you like, as long as it lies within your kill period. If dragons repop while you are killing due to patches or downtimes or zone crashes, you are entitled to kill them as long as you take no longer than your allocated raid schedule. If you kill aary and the zone repops, your raid does not start over, you have the remainder of the period from when you started till the end of your allocated raid time. If this makes it impossible for you to clear the zone, big yippee, it's life, deal with it. You can restart killing anything you want in Nwing, as long as you take no longer than your allocated raid time to kill up to and through Vyemn. if you are unable to accomplish this, regardless of patches, you leave at the end of your allocated raid time, period.
Now can't we all just get along? =)
