Just curious.. Bush or Kerry?

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Originally Posted by Trazz

He DID vote for the 87 Million to equip our troops

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Oh really? Then why are troops still complaining about being underequipped and even refusing to go on basic supply runs because of lack of supplies and protection even today, calling them suicide runs? And dang it, there was an article released today where the owner of an Army surplus store in Groton, CT stated that he had a lot of the service personal buying equipment with thier own money. That included flak jackets. Now I can't find it. =/

How exactly is Bush standing up to terrorist in Iraq? Because of WMD that could be used against the US? Where are they then? Iran just finished their Nuke testing. You feel safe knowing that? We going to attack Iran next? If anything, terrorist are now pouring into Iraq simply because we are there.

If we have any hopes of actually bring terrorist to thier knees it's going to take a better effort from a President that can get better support from around the world. And please don't try to say we have more countries involved now then we did in the first Gulf War because 15 troops from 30 countries most people have trouble even finding on a map doesn't count in my book.

I too want a president that will stand up to terrorist and will support our troops when forced into action. And I wonder why Bush hasn't yet. Sending troops into harms why without a solid plan, sending them into harms way underequipped in NOT supporting the troops. Sending troops into a country that repeated intelligence information says "They pose no threat to the United States." isn't standing up to terrorist. Nor is sending too few troops to do the job right. We have enough troops to handle the situation in Afganistan, but not in Iraq as well. There is zero reason for us to have had Reservist called up except that we are scattered too thinnly across around the world.

The pictures prove what exactly? Nothing.

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Originally Posted by Seraphina

Considering all thats happened to this country, I feel Bush has done an admirable job. Though people, since the last election, have been trying to undermine his leadership in every way possible, he has still been able to help this country recover after the worst attack on our homeland ever and helped the economy get over the recession that started during the Clinton years.

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So, you are saying that the attack against us would have occurred regardless of our foreign policy? And that Bush's virtue was in dealing with it?

Why do you think there is so much money and hate for US in that part of the country?

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I hope no one forgets 9/11, and I hope people realize who truly attacked us.

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Me too. And who exactly would that be?

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I've met people who are so full of bitterness and anger, it really frightens me. They go so far as to tell me they feel Bush is behind 9/11, that Bush is a drug addict and alcoholic, and that basically he's worse than Hitler.

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Are you sure they didn't say that bush played a part in being responsible for 9/11? Or that he did some drugs and was an alcoholic? Hitler references are dumb, overused hyperbole though.

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I personally don't see how anyone can feel so adamant about the junk that spews from people like Michael Moore.

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What do you disagree with from Michael Moore and why?

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I think this world would be a better place if people put more faith in the lord, rather than some guy who's just out to make money.

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Are you saying that someone who inherently has no other goal but to make money would choose to make low to mid budget documentaries like Roger and Me, Bowling for Columbine, and Fehrenheit 9/11?

More faith in the lord? Did you really go there? Seriously?

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I mean comparing him to Hitler is rediculous and believing every propoganda you ever hear is simply showing me that some people are very easily mislead.

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The great thing about propoganda is the assumption it is valid information without critical examination. Do you think you don't believe any lies?

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I've been a longtime independant, I actually voted for Gore, but I must say, Kerry is not the answer for what ails this country. Voting for any candidate because you dislike the other is simply not the smart thing to do. If you don't like the candidate of your party, vote for Nader or Badnarik, or write in a vote for yourself. Don't vote for someone you don't believe in.

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Then the complication of how that vote impacts the election comes into play. A write-in vote (or a vote for Nader for that matter - assuming he doesn't have to be written in anyway in some states) serves no purpose other than to exercise your free will. But those people won't get elected. What would the ramifications of a write-in be then, if those people who do write-in are the majority of the kerry "swing voters", and by consequence, you help elect Bush? It's been a popular thing to dislike Nader for his influence on taking away votes for the democrats. And because he's just really, really fucked up.

Voting for Bush because Kerry sucks.

Do any of you have friends in Iraq? People actually there? My point is, every single voter goes off of information that has in some way been altered to suit a certain candidates' position. I have 4 friends in Iraq and I haven;t heard anything from them about not having the armor they need. Three in the marines and one in the Army. One interview I heard a guy saying he saw soldiers without armor everywhere. Does a communications expert working in a secured building on a smoke break wear armor? See what I'm getting at? Information during an election is always so fucked up, I can;t stand it. I'd like for once a non-billionaire rich pussy, playing-president nominee become president. Or a candidate that doesn't let his campaign advisors decide what he beleives.

The president only has the right to veto anyway. Though it may seem untra-powerful, I don;t take his policy history into consideration seeing as veto is hardly ever used. If you want to vote on health care, jobs, etc etc.....be more concerned with your Congress....they right up 1000 times more propositions than Bush does....his just gets more press.

I would like to add here that people seem to really get bent out of shape saying that Kerry is just some billionaire, etc. Bush was never some sorta poor farmer that worked his way into office. He is rich, he has always been rich. He just stages all sorts of photos showing him as an everyman average kinda guy and people buy into it.

And arguing that his policy has been shit during his stay as president is because he has no real power isn't helping any.

The president lied to the public about wmd to get into war. That was the reason for going, and it turns out it was based on partial information, documents were ignored because they didn't back his position. He wanted to be a wartime president and obfuscated his way into that role. Where is the accountability? Why was the war with Iraq, who had no evidence of having wmd (or plans/ability to create), so important, yet Iran was allowed to create them? Are they not as dangerous?

Yeah, Saddam was a nutcase. Bush himself however stated before he was elected that America should not be expected to use its power to change governments in foreign countries. What made Saddam worse than Ali Khamenei? What made Saddam worse than Kim Jong-Il? Should the American troops next be sent to Iran and North Korea to clean up the mess in those countries? Countries where the mess is actually dangerous to the rest of the world.

edit: would like to add that I think all of us know people there (even me), I think some may know more than others since there are a few in the military here.

Go Bush !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (x50 or so...)

Edited by Andaas: Please try to keep the maturity level above 5th grade.

http://homepage.mac.com/duffyb/nobus...heater146.html

just something bush supporters should see

personally im voting for kerry, most people who still support bush still believe the right wing media spin that's fed to them on a daily basis.

that site i linked has all kinda of media against bush. it shows footage of himself and his administration saying one thing and swearing on it, then footage of them saying the exact opposite. journalists can quote them and they deny it, then footage is shown them saying exactly that.

click a few links on this site at random, it will open a QT file watch it. if you still arent convinced kerry is the right choice in this election then atleast you gave the other side a chance.

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Originally Posted by Ryukami

Do any of you have friends in Iraq? People actually there? My point is, every single voter goes off of information that has in some way been altered to suit a certain candidates' position. I have 4 friends in Iraq and I haven;t heard anything from them about not having the armor they need.

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Your four buddies must not know the people who got the 400 trauma plates the people at somethingawful donated for because the army/marines didn't have the money for them.

These are not people who sit at a desk. Saying both "all information is altered" and everything suits a candidates position. I would look at everything critically, but to declare it false before even reviewing it is irresponsible.

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Originally Posted by Jacais

In this election year the facts have been hard to find. Not anymore.

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the "facts" haven't been hard to find while the real facts have. the type of facts you speak of are on fox news channel 24/7.

The comparisons to Bush and Hilter, while very simplified and something I doubt I would approach, can be made from the fact that many key players of the Bush Admin. belong to "A New American Century". An origanization that believes that the United States should use it's military might to force American policies worldwide. So, one could say Hilter used his military to force Germany's policy on the world.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/

The following link gives some additional insight.
http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/...5025024.htm?1c

Ok, sorry, looks like you have to sign-up. I didn't the first time I went to the link. Anyway, I'll leave the link if you're interested. In a nutshell, it tells of how the PNAC had plans to attack Iraq four years before 9/11.

This election moreso than any other requires a viewing of the Simpsons Halloween episode with Kang and Kodus running for president...

You're right Trazz, Bush is much better suited to be a logger than a leader. =o

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Originally Posted by Forty

PNAC

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Partially Nude American Colony?

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Originally Posted by Lexi

You're right Trazz, Bush is much better suited to be a logger than a leader. =o

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Yeah... so some reason I keep getting logged in as Lexi. Cleared cookies out and logged in again, it asks if I want to debug an error when I hit the login button but it proceeds anyway. :|

Hermann Goering, said the following at the Nuremberg Trials:
"
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.
"
Goering was Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe, President of the Reichstag, Prime Minister of Prussia and, as Hitler's designated successor, the second man in the Third Reich.

http://www.moveon.org/fox/

Hmm, Clinton recession....dont recall that, maybe it started to recess a lil as he was leaving office. One thing i remember for sure is the country had a fucking huge surplus of cahs that bush managed to deplete in a matter of months, whats are debt at now, its a proven fact that the ecnonmy strives during war times, it has every single time in the past, but this dont seem to be the case this time. Bush is a retard, which is what i dont understand. Bush was govenor in my state and i hadnt heard a single retarded comment from him at all, hell he was a good govenor, he should go back to that imo.

Kerry, no fucking thank you,.

Bush vs Kerry, no matter who wins we all lose imo.

I hold the same basic view as Forty. I travel all over the world and I've noticed this trend of anti-american feelings growing..many feel we are arrogant, egotistical know it alls. Our government bullies its way into other nations legislation all the time dictating foriegn and domestic policies, using trade and other policies as force. I guess we do know how everyone else should live =|

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Originally Posted by Trazz

Need I say more? check the pictures. The right stuff and wrong stuff.

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wow you are right....we need a man with vision!

The other interesting thing about Bush and the whole Nazi thing is that his grandfather, great grandfather, and to some extent his own father were all involved in companies and financing connected with the Nazi's. His grandfather even had his company taken from him by the government, although he still made a killing. I don't know a lot of details on it, because to be honest a lot of the stuff out there on it is probably exaggerated or just outright bullshit, but Prescott Bush was certainly making big cash off WWI and II. He wrote the book, and Cheney sure as shit must have read it :D.

I don't read, but I do watch the history channel. There was a big program about the 9/11 commission report. Basically it said people were pounding on the president's desk about terrorist threats before 9/11, and the administration ignored it. These people are now pissed the president is trumpeting how much he is making us safer from terrorism.

I also think this "fuck you, we'll do what we want" attitude is just creating more terrorists. I am rather disgusted by this "the terrorists hate freedom" nonsense Bush likes to throw around. The terrorists hate our POLICIES, not freedom. Anyone who thinks the U.S. is completely innocent and did nothing to the Muslim world is brainwashed and/or ignorant. The "they suicide bomb us because they hate our culture" crap is nonsense. I bet you didn't know the U.S. Navy blew up an Arab airliner 2 decades ago, and gave the commander a medal for it.

Then there is the whole Kerry and Bush being in Skull and Bones issue. Either way the election turns out, the same organization will control the country. You can laugh at this all you like, but the history channel had a one hour documentary about this not-so-secret society as well.

Our election process is fundamentally flawed. The "Nader effect" is a HUGE problem. It outright prevents people from choosing the candidate they want in office. Wired magazine recently ran a story about how to improve the electoral system which I thought was very good. One of the improvements was to sort of rank in order which candidates you would prefer, so you could say, vote for Nader without aiding Bush.