Printable View
Sounds like EQ to me :DQuote:
The very fact that you talk about legalizing marijuana because smoking or drinking is legal, is a rationalization. The fact is, all 3 can addict you, all three can ruin your life, and all 3 can ruin the lives of others around you.
Although I confess that I am of the same standpoint :p
I agree. People need to personally take responsibilty, they don't need their government to act like a parent and make these kind of decisions for them. IMHO :pQuote:
Originally posted by Maegwin
People need to grow up and start taking responsibility for their actions, hding behind rationalizations about why marijuana is good for you will only do you more damage than it will good to your life, career, or family.
I know several very successful Doctors, Lawyers, Professors and Artists/Writers/Musicians who smoke pot on a regular basis... In fact some of the smartest people I know (I'm talking IQs of 145+ here) smoke pot.
Marijuana has serveral beneficial aspects:
It is relaxing. It actually helps some people I know think more carefully. It can make you more introspective and more creative. It helps people sleep without the negative side effects of other sleeping aids. It helps people with AIDS, Cancer and Glaucoma... In fact, it has MANY medical benefits. You can also eat it. In fact people have survived famines by eating hemp seeds... ;)
*takes all Vini's papers and runs off* :p
Yea Vin, but you are one of those pinko left wing commies that think everything the government does is to undermine your personal liberty! I am totally kidding! But seriously, our two governments are more or less unmatched in personal freedoms on this planet, along with a number of European countries, and Australia too I guess! I just meant it could be a lot fucking worse anyway :).
Uhm, I actually AGREE with you. In terms of recreational use of marijuana, no, there are virtually no benefits to it. It does help some people with creativity, and maybe makes some people less introverted. I consider the feeling I get from it to be a benefit, in the same way a good meal is well, good, or the same way I enjoy a good CD/book/movie/whatever. You say that doesn't count, that's fine then. There isn't very many (non-medicinal) benefits to pot, but that applies to virtually everything most people do for pleasure. The whole point is you like it, it feels good.Quote:
Give me one BENEFIT to yourself, physically, of smoking marijauna? And no, I won't accept "It makes me feel good", because thats just a temporary feeling, something that as you said yourself, you become tolerant too. I'm talking about cold, hard, benefit...something like "It has increased my ability to retain what I read by 20%"...thats just an example.
You go to movies? What benefit does a standard run of the mill Hollywood movie give you? Probably nothing. Some of the better ones may enlighten you, get you to think about something you never thought of, or in a different light, or make you eager to take up some good just cause. But most of the time it's mindless entertainment. Should movies be illegal just because they don't offer much tangible good? I would think not. Same thing applies to soft drinks (I would use alcohol, but you don't like it either, it seems :D). Most are actually quite unhealthy, especially diet ones (or so I have heard, aspartame is apparently the devil incarnate). The only benefit to them is that they taste good, and might give you a caffeine buzz. Uhoh, sounds like a drug to me! Again, no one in their right mind would argue they should be made illegal.
I don't think you can reason that if something isn't good for you, that it must be bad for you. Case in point: I recently read some study that apparently stretching before exercising actually seems to do virtually nothing to prevent muscle stiffness, or injury. But they said it isn't bad either. It's a saw off.Quote:
And if something isn't beneficial to you, it stands to reason that it is BAD for you. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow...but in the long run you will be worse off.
However, in regards to pot, yes I do agree with you that it is probably bad for your health. Your are inhaling smoke into your lungs, and putting your mind in a slightly (or very) altered state. Yea, it's probably gonna be bad for you long term, if not short. But again, is this reason enough to make it illegal? In my marathon post, I stated a bunch of things that are legal that are at least as bad for you as pot, if not exponentially worse. And the vast majority of them are legal.
Remember that idiot I mentioned that decided to ride his snowmobile on the lake in the middle of the night and then drowned? They asked the RCMP, and as far as they were concerned, it is a perfectly legal activity (although if it is to be by the book, he has to have a fire extinguisher, oar, life jacket, and whistle like any other water craft, lol). Now, I am not using the argument that because some other really dangerous activity is legal, that pot should be too. What I AM saying however, is that the risks involved with pot are so small, and limited to one's own self, that it hardly justifies the stigma attached to it.
I think everyone involved was kidding there :D. And I agree with you, a lot of terrible things happen because of alcohol. Last year's Canada Day, 4K drunken assholes went on a riot on Whyte Ave here, the main party area in the city. Had they all been sober, there would have been no problems. But again, I hardly think the solution is to limit people's access to it. It is not the government's job to enforce morality on people. Although when people cross the line, there should be significant punishment (a friend of mine has been under house arrest for 12 months because he got stupid that night, and his genius sister had a video camera filming him throwing a garbage can through a window, WTG genius).Quote:
I find that the argument that drinking is a GOOD thing because it has been helping people have sex is LUDICROUS. While you may have been joking, I don't think it's a laughing matter... Drinking is probably the leading cause of rape, sexual assault, spousal abuse and more. Those aren't things to laugh about.
Look at what happens in countries where the government does try to instill morality in people. Take fundamentalist Islamic countries. To prevent men of ever being tempted of actually being attracted to a woman, they force women to never really show their face (although some are allowed to, but hair is never to be shown, since we all know how sexy hair is), and often are not allowed to leave their house w/o a male family member. Do you want to live in a society like that? Not for me, thanks.
Again, I agree with you. But that doesn't refute the point I made earlier: that by making pot illegal, it is actually easier to get than alcohol or tobacco. This may not be the case everywhere, I went to a junior high and high school full of Vietnamese people (sorry to stereotype, but there was a bunch of cousins and brothers that were all around the same age that were all involved in criminal activity, several of them are now in jail for murder etc), but at the very least, pot is no harder to get than booze for the average teenager. Making it illegal does nothing to cut off the supply.Quote:
And if drinking is legal, and it has an age limit, but yet kids still go around doing it Illegaly because they are too young, an they go around getting themselves killed because of drunk driving, stupid dares or whatever....you could argue that kids will still abuse marijuana before they are of age.
I strongly disagree with you here. In fact, if you replace "smokes pot on a regular basis" with "black/asian/white people" it becomes a blatantly racist statement, and no one would accept it. I think that the same reaction should apply to that statement. Just because the pot smokers you have met are burn outs, does not mean all are. And how do you know that the hot shot lawyer across the street or the neurosurgeon down the block are not heads when they get home? You would be very suprised.Quote:
And like, not to be sterotypical or anything but....anyone I've ever met that smokes pot on a regular basis has been a total loser, burn out, basket case, lazy sob...not generally good values that companies look for in the work place.
You can't make a sweeping generalization about a group of people based on your experience with probably under 20 people. Hell, if I were to do the same based on my experiences with English/Black/Native people who have worked for our business in the past 10 years, I would have to say that every last one of them is useless and has no work ethic. But that would be a stupid and close minded thing to do.
I totally agree with you in regards to people needing to take responsibility! But where did anyone justify something "because I was stoned"? What do pot smokers need to take responsibility before? Pot smokers, if anything, are LESS likely to commit crimes while high. They are docile and generally friendly, unlike drunks. The only reason that cops can claim that pot smoking increases crime is because THEY MADE IT A CRIME. You would never catch me running across a freeway while baked out of my skull, but I used to do it frequently when sauced up enough. Maybe I just missed your point here, but I really don't see what you were trying to say. Pot doesn't ruin people's lives. The people smoking it do.Quote:
People need to grow up and start taking responsibility for their actions, hding behind rationalizations about why marijuana is good for you will only do you more damage than it will good to your life, career, or family.
It kind of goes back to the whole chicken and egg thing. Was the guy a loser before he started smoking pot (and maybe the loser personality is just predisposed to doing drugs?), or did pot turn him into a loser. I go for the first one, personally. I know way too many people that occasionally toke that are successful or will be successful (hey, I am still young yet!) to think that it drags you down in anyway. Of the ten close friends I had in engineering, probably 5 or 6 of them would say sure if you handed them a J on a friday night house party. These are people who are very smart, and very hard working, otherwise they wouldn't be where they are.
And also, if you want people to take responsibility for their actions, how then does taking the decision away from them make them more responsible? That logic doesn't make much sense to me. If you want parents to be responsible for their kids, is your first reaction to make every violent computer game illegal for a kid to buy? I would hope not.
And I haven't even touched on the myriad benefits of medicinal marijuana, because it's something I am not really equipped to comment on. But it seems to me that all the people that have sicknesses begging to be able to use it can't be wrong. Hell, if someone is terminally ill, they should be able to snort heroin off a whore's tit for all I care, let them have their fun before they die :D. that was partially a joke! sssshhh
I want someone to please please give me a valid reason that pot should be illegal. Because I sure can't think of one. And no, "it's bad for you" or "you shouldn't need to escape reality" aren't good reasons :).
Bleh, that reminds me of another stupid argument, the whole escape reality one. I have heard that used mostly by people from a religious background, or people who think that pot is a crutch for people with emotional problems ("why do you want to be someone else?"). I think the best answer for that one is: why do you read books, go to movies, watch TV, or listen to music?
You can't be serious? Drinking is not the cause. The intent is there before the drinking. The leading cause of rape, sexual assault, spousal abuse, etc. is fucking unbalanced people who have no respect for people around them. Simple as that.Quote:
Originally posted by Maegwin
Drinking is probably the leading cause of rape, sexual assault, spousal abuse and more.
There is absolutely ZERO rational for making marijuana illegal except one, that being the amount of money it generates for those who oppose it. Saying it has no benefit is incorrect as well. There are just an incredible amount of uses for hemp outside of the simple smoking of it.
A close examination of the effects of prohibition on American society gives you all the information you need on why marijuana should be decriminalized.
Fucking wake up already..
No need to get hostile mang! You fucking wake up or something!
i find this to be a good thing, as cnadians can not get any dumber as is
Right, and you amricans are so much more intelligent.Quote:
Originally posted by Zappo
i find this to be a good thing, as cnadians can not get any dumber as is
rofl
Damn Eomer....that was a crazy long post. Well argued though ;)
You should have seen the post I made on Dro.net about 6 months ago when that whole sleeper issue had everyone all hot and bothered... that post took me the better part of a day to write :D
this is only true for 1 reason. the people who actually do(which aren't many i must say) are the people who would already do the hardcore shit, they jsut don't know where to get it. if they didn't have to get pot from drug dealers, they wouldn't know who the drugdealersa re, and thus wont know where to get heroine/coke/crack/ice/whateverelsethey'dwant. if they bought it from gas stations, unless drug dealers setup post outside, they wouldn't get asked "Hey man, wanna try some ice instead of pot? it's like the same thing but different" or have someone say "nah man, i'm out of pot, but i got plenty of coke if you wanan try some."Quote:
Have to remeber that marijuana has been known to push some people on to more addictive and dangerous drugs, like heroin and such.
Give me one everyday household product that isn't bad for you. Even every day milk, can cause cancer. Should milk be illigal? i don't want my balls t have to be cut off because it has a chemical in it that can effictly cause cancer in the balls of mice which has been shown to also be true of humans. Even tho, i'm still going to drink milk, it tastes god with my cinnamon rolls, which can also make me fat and obesce. Everything is bad for you in one way or another. just because it's bad don't mean you shouldn't be allowed to use it.Quote:
And if something isn't beneficial to you, it stands to reason that it is BAD for you. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow...but in the long run you will be worse off.
I think the fact your missing here, kids are already using marijuana. And as quite a few people have already stated, stonned people don't do the stupid things that they do when drunk that can get them killed.Quote:
And if drinking is legal, and it has an age limit, but yet kids still go around doing it Illegaly because they are too young, an they go around getting themselves killed because of drunk driving, stupid dares or whatever....you could argue that kids will still abuse marijuana before they are of age.
personally, i think everyone should smoke pot atleast once. if you've smoked it once, and can honestly say that it should be illigle, you sir, are a liar. i hardly ever smoke pot anymore because i find it=boring corona=fun and see no reasons why it should be illigel. it doesn't hurt anyone, i have a comic in my wallet that i found, it's got little cartoon charecters of a beer, a cigar, a ciggarete, and a joint. they all talking about how many deaths they've caused and the joint it like "i don't think i belong here" the ciggarette says "great the new numbers are in, i'm still smokin' over 400,00 folks a year" then looks at the joint and says "how many did YOU kill" and the joint is all like "uhh, none, all i caused was over 735,000 arrests" i found it pretty damn amusing considering it's been in my wallet for almost 6 months now... sad thing is, is that it's true.
both my grandfathers died from tobacco related causes, one of my gransmothers is in pretty poor health due to it, and my other grandmother is pretty good shape because she's never smoked. my dad's done had a triple heart bypass or some shit from smoking and was told if he didn't quit he would die. i know one chick, just turned 21, already has kidney problems from drinking to much. 10pp says you can't name anyone who's health is seriously fucked just from smoking pot, or even so much as just moderatly fucked up.
ask them people what all they do besides just pot. i'm pretty sure you'll get a long list of shit.Quote:
And like, not to be sterotypical or anything but....anyone I've ever met that smokes pot on a regular basis has been a total loser, burn out, basket case, lazy sob...not generally good values that companies look for in the work place.
one last thing~ if pot were sold at gas stations, there would be less chance of it being laced with who the hell knows what. which would make it cleaner and safer >< dunno about up in canada, but here in atlanta you can get some funky shit from the ghetto.
ps~ i liek runon sentances and commasplices. tks!
I didnt read all the long winded posts, there is not much that needs to be said. Canada has the right idea as far as this issue goes. I cant imagine how much money it will bring into their country and how many MILLIONS of tourists will visit there yearly from US alone if this passes. It will be a huge econo boost. I hope it passes if it does im going for sure =p.
Oh and as far as benefits to myself for smoking marijuna?
Well all i can say is it is a benefit in itself..
When I used to smoke pot (still do rarely) its more of my mind and body entertaining itself. I dont need outside stimuli (book, tv, eq, etc) to be entertained, all i need is me. nuff said about that
This isssue is so lopsided of an argument it frustrates me to hear people on the opposing side.. grrr i hate when these topics arise, just make it legal already so we can stfu talking about it =p
Damn now my post is longwinded too =(
-Rika-
Oh forgot to mention that ive never had more fun than when i used to grow pot plants in my little secret grow room =o
best hobby ever
To bad its illegal =(
Course i used to donate to NORML and go to all the Willie Nelson hemp fests on the capitol steps in Austin too.. those were the days =D
btw good post Eomer
It's my honest opinoin that if you can't see both sides of an arguement, you shouldn't be involved in the resolution of that arguement. Kinda like the whole eminem/cheney thing. People hear a couple words and assume that it will drive the children of america to killing their wives/kids/people on the street and doing other illegal acts. The fact is, people who do that kinda stuff are not brainwashed from music, they are fucked up period. You can argue all sorts of sides about how alcohol is the leading cause of rape, spousal abuse and sexual offenses, but the simple fact of the matter is, the percentage of people who do drink and cause these things is extremely tiny compared to the total number of people who drink. Logic dictates that it is indeed not the cause of it, otherwise instances would be MUCH higher in accordance to the sheer number of people who drink.
You can argue that pot isn't healthy for you. Neither is junk food. Health has NEVER contributed to illegality in any meaningful way, otherwise smoking would have been outlawed when it was first brought to the new world. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize that smoking isn't healthy. Neither is eating bacon every morning for all those farmer types. You simply can't argue that health is any referance point for something being illegal. Last I checked, guns are quite legal and are designed around killing.
The blanket arguement that pot, smoking and alcohol should all be illegal is moot. If we lived under a communist regime or dictatorship, then I would totally understand that kind of mentality. However, last I heard, this is America, Land of the Free and all that loveliness. The very thing you argue is an affront to personal freedom, the ability for the government to decide what we can and can't do without the consent of the people they govern. No, I'm not throwing the patriotism thing at you, just a simple fact of the country (countries I guess, you could totally argue that north dakota is a little bit of canada that broke off =\) The fact is, the majority of people who actually research marijauna have stated that there isn't any reason for it not to be legal. The pros of making it legal far outweigh the cons of keeping it illegal.
I feel like I'm on some debate team or some shit.
In my working experience, i have found that this particular drug contributes alot to the medical profession, especially in multiple sclerosis. Many patients need it is a vital part of helping with relaxation of muscles, but due to the current legislation, it is very hard for people to be granted trials etc, thus meaning people having to resort to buying the drug illegal and risk in-prisonment for it. In my opinion this is very wrong!
As to the addictive factors, i disagree, i feel that it is up to the individual, and how far they take it ,as strahd said eq is a addiction so is smoking, drinking and chocolate <not that i am confessing>, yes it may not be on the same as level as taking drugs, but it is still an addiction. Many people i know are weed users, but are NOT addicted they enjoy it to just relax maybe at the end of a bad week. I have found also that people using weed are less aggressive and as a lot of studies have shown drugs in general are more calming in comparison to those who drink.
Drinking as stated earlier does have many anti social and aggressive side effects. How many people do you know who smoke weed start fights and become a abusive? Then compare this to those who smoke weed?
In my opinion i feel that ALL drugs should be legalised, it is up to the individual, and in all honesty people would see it as being 'less' trendy and reduce crime.
well... said my piece:rolleyes:
"In my opinion i feel that ALL drugs should be legalised, it is up to the individual, and in all honesty people would see it as being 'less' trendy and reduce crime."
Oh boy. You really think people are smart enough to know what's best for them when it comes to drugs that can be so habit forming and addictive that it eventually kills them?
Legalized heroine? Crack? uh omg?
Addiction is good for business! Just look at the most widely used drug, caffiene. Everything Pepsi sells is like crack in a can :|Quote:
yes it may not be on the same as level as taking drugs, but it is still an addiction
We might as well legalize Marijuana and if not we should make alcohol and tobacco illegal. I think the legalization of all drugs is insane, though. Crack, heroin, etc...many of these drugs can kill you and they are 100x more addictive than Marijuana.
I read one time that there has basically only been one death that can sort of be attributed to pot smoking. Apparently some guy was stoned out of his gourd, just absolutely blasted, and had a serious case of the munchies. Apparently he continued to eat and eat until his stomach ruptured, and then bled to death. The lethal dose of THC is so high that one person would have to smoke so much pot in a short period of time that it is essentially impossible, it's in the pounds I think.
I don't think the highly addictive drugs should be made legal, like coke, heroin, crack etc. But softer ones like mushrooms, acid, hell maybe even ecstasy (never done it, dunno if it's addictive or not) should be at the very least decriminalized (so you only get a fine and not charged).
And instead of throwing people in jail, they should try to help rehabiliate them. Jail does nothing for someone, other than make someone a better criminal when they get out. It's like criminal college.
hey Hoss, was reading the posts and I wanted to add my 2 cents to this. I've been smoking pot for about 5 months now. All my life I was raised to think that drugs are bad and all that mess. About 5 months ago, I was chilling at a friends house and 4 of my friends busted out their weed and bongs, and started smoking. I still hadn't tried it so I went to the otherside of the room cause I thought it was "bad" for me. They kept asking me if I wanted to try it, I said no thanx. They kept bugging me about it and tried to explain to me that it's not that bad for you, all you do is feel good and relaxed, I still said no. Finally, I moved to where they were so I could watch some t.v. The bong was being passed around and one of em handed it to me. He said, just take a hit, and if you still thinks its bad, we wont bug you about it. I thought for a second and I was like, fuck it, can't hurt to try it. So i sparked the bowl and preceded to hit the bowl. I took 2 hits and passed the bong. I didn't feel anything at first, but then after bout 5 minutes, I just felt relaxed and was feeling good. I was pretty high off those 2 hits so I just layed on the bed and chilled for an hour. Since then, me and my friends have been going out, smoking, partying etc. My parents know that I smoke it, they werent too happy when they found out. I tried explaining to them that its not dangerous or bad as they were told when they were younger, but they refuse to believe me. And the funny thing is, they've never even tried it once so everything they say to me about how bad it is, is BS to me since they have no idea what its like. Sorry for the long post, my point is that don't knock it till you try it. Before you go out preaching about how bad it is for you, go out and try it yourself or with some friends before you make BS statements about it. Peace~
I'm not sure acid and ecstasy should be classified as soft drugs. Ecstasy seriously fucks with your nervous system, and acid has the "acid flashback" effect of reoccuring symptoms. Shrooms however, probably could be classified under soft drugs along with pot, tobacco and caffeine. Stuff that can kill you in an extremely short time if it's not prepared right (coke, crack, heroin) should remain illegal imo, simply because they are designed to be addictive and make money. You are far less likely to experience withdrawls with pot, caffeine and alcohol than you are with any of the harder drugs. Tobacco is also designed around being addictive, but it's been legal for hundreds of years, you don't fuck with traditional addictions.
I think one of the biggest plusses that I don't think was mentioned is that by legalizing mary jane, you effectively remove a large portion of drug dealing companies in south america and mexico profit line, which will also injure their general operations. That and if pot is legal, it will be cheaper to grow, so crimerate will also decline a little due to no longer needing to rob a liquor store to pay for your weed. Granted, I know that people robbing quickie marts and what not to pay for addictions generally don't do it for pot, but that is a bonus that could be infered!