Thuggo speaks the truth. On a side note i have the biggest friggen headache trying to figure out wtfak kattoo's avatar means. It makes no sense damnit!
Ain
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Thuggo speaks the truth. On a side note i have the biggest friggen headache trying to figure out wtfak kattoo's avatar means. It makes no sense damnit!
Ain
Bah! You know you love me! *Hugs* ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinilaa
Obviously you're missing the point. The woman KNEW the issue before she took the job, she decided to eat pork anyway, not once but twice, probably without consulting her bosses on her feelings toward the policy. The bottom line is, why did she take the job without stating that the policy would be a problem for her?
It's not a religious issue, it's a respect issue. She didn't have enough respect for her bosses to talk to them about the issue if she had such a problem with it. Again I say, they weren't controlling WHAT she ate for lunch just WHERE she could eat it.
Sheesh.
Well, there are two ways to look at it. In the legal sense, they don't have a leg to stand on and will most likely to rehire her or pay a fine or something.
But yes, I agree it was disrespectful of her, and she probably went out of her way to piss them off.
But they still don't have a leg to stand on.
Sorry guys didn't read this thread much but I fully support women getting porked at work
It doesn't matter. Her boss is unable to use religion as a stipulation to hire or fire her or to set corporate policy. She is also under no obligation to respect his religion or observe its' practices.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinilaa
I copied this section from a website listing the reasons that Muslims don't eat pork. After reading it, you might see why they might not want pork in their facility. If this is what they truly believe, the fact that this woman did bring pork into the workplace, one could argue her boss did think she was causing harm.
Just a side note, there was another site that listed some of the ova from these microorganisms could be found in pork that is well cooked. It kind of freaks me out knowing I had bacon for breakfast this morning!
Quote:
DISEASES CAUSED BY PORK
The following lists show germs or parasites that are found
in pork and some diseases caused by them. Many of these
diseases are contagious while some are proven fatal.This proves
that the more science advances the more Islam is shown correct
as a religion of God.
PARASITIC DISEASES
a) TRICHINELLA SPIRATIS ( Trichina worms )
It is the most dangerous parasite to man ( Rheumatism and
muscular pain). The infected persons shown no symptoms, recover
very slowly some die, some reduced to permanent invalids. No one
is immune from this disease and there is no cure.
b) TAENIA SOLIUM ( Pork tape worm )
The worm causes malnourishment of the person leading
to anemia, diarrhea, extreme depression melancholia and
digestive disturbances. Cysticercosis means that larva enter
the blood stream then settle down in one or more of the vital
organs of the body, for example: brain, liver, lungs or spinal
cord. They grow and encapsulate, inducing pressure to the
system around, resulting in dangerous diseases (diarrhea,
digestive disorder, anemia, chronic invalidation).
c) ROUND WORMS
Examples: Ascaris, which may lead to digestive
disturbances, appendicitis, obstructive jaundice.
d) HOOK WORMS
Examples:Ancylostomiasis, which may lead to
anemia, oedema, heart failure or retarded
growth ( mental and physical), tuberculosis,
diarrhea and typhoid.
e) SCHITOSOMA JAPONICUM
Bleeding, anemia and other syndromes. If ova
are settled in the brain or spinal cord, paralysis
and death may occur.
f) PARAGOMINES WESTERMAINI
Infestation leading to bleeding of the lungs
( endenve haemoptysis)
g) PACIOLEPSIS BUSKI
Digestive disturbances leading to persistent
diarrhea; generalized oedema.
h) CLONORCHIS SINENSIS
chlonorchiasis-obstructive jaundice, liver enlargement.
i) METASTRONGYLUS APRI
Causes bronchitis, abscess of the lungs.
j) GIGANTHORINCHUS GIGAS
Cause anemia and digestive disorders.
k) BALATITIDIUM COLI
Causes acute dysentery and general weakness.
BACTERIAL DISEASES
1. Tuberculosis
2. Fusiformis necrofurus: causing foot-rot which is very
difficult to heal.
3. Salmonella Cholera suis: causing cholera
4. Paratyphoid
5. Bruceellosis: Acute, sub acute and chronic. It may lead
to permanent disabilities.
6. Swine Erysipelas: causing Erypelas in man.
Viral Diseases
1. Small pox: is was a source of infection to man.
2. Japanese B-encepphalitis: It is the source of infection
3. Influenza, foot mouth disease, gas tro-enteritis of the
new born babies.
Protozoal Diseases : Toxo plasma goundii- It is a very
dangerous diseases.A new born baby of an infected woman may die
within few days or weeks after delivery. But if he survives
he may develop blindness or deafness.In adult chronic exhaustive
fever with enlarged liver and spleen may occur. Pneumonia, or
celebro- spinal meninggitis which may lead to death or madness.
The patient may become blind and deaf too.
Fats In Pigs:
Pork contains more fats than other meats.
Therefore, people who are fond of pork are more obese than
others. Cholesterol is higher in their blood thus making them
more prone to asthereosclerosis cardiovascular accidents and
sudden death.
Other Diseases :
Flesh of the pork is hard to digest and may
lead to chronic digestive disturbances. Pimples, boils, cysts are
common in pork eaters. These are some of the parasites and
diseases found in pork and/ or the skin of pigs and certainly
there are many more. There is still no means of killing these
parasites, in the tissues, neither has anyone found a method of
expelling them, even produced any specific treatment for the
diseases.
Obviously she's under no "legal" obligation to respect their religion. She was NOT asked to observe its practices, she was asked to respect their beliefs WHILE on their premises. I do not think that it was too much to ask. I also think that if SHE did think it was too much to ask she should have said something like, "I'm sorry I cannot refrain from eating pork here. There must be some compromise we can reach over this." She failed to do that. She failed to act like a normal human being and state her grievance before acting out, then upon meeting a consequence she didn't like she then decided to sue. It's stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thuggo
This is all I'm going to say on the subject.
what if it hhad been turkey bacon ;p
I wonder how they even knew she was eating a BLT.
How did they know there was pork on the pizza she was eating?
I imagine this woman must act like Homer Simpson when she eats... "mmmm, bacon".
It is too much to ask. There is no compromise, what is he giving up? A catholic boss is unable to force you to refrain from eating meat on fridays during lent. A mormon boss is unable to force you to refrain from drinking coffee. A jewish boss is unable to force you to eat a kosher diet. A boss who thinks that a certain food is gross is unable to prevent you from eating it. The fault is not hers, but that of her arrogant boss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinilaa
I happen to have a muslim coworker, he has refused to eat pizza at work before because it had pepperoni on it. That's his perogative whether to eat it or not. But if he came and told me that I couldn't eat pork at work during my lunch hour because it insults his religion, he would quickly find out what a real insult was.
Legally her boss was unable to fire her for this reason. Morally he was wrong to try and force his religious mores on her. In my opinion she was completely right and he was completely wrong.
Did she deserve to be fired over this? No.
Was she rude and inconsiderate to her employers by going against their verbal request? Yes.
Were her employers a little too curious about what it was their employee was eating? Perhaps.
Was she a little too obvious with what she was eating, considering she was asked to refrain from eating that food on the premises? Perhaps.
Was she the type of person who, after hearing a non-written policy such as this, decided that she would try and be the "martyr" that gets fired and sues for lots of money? Most likely.
Is this thread worth my posting in? Probably not.
Do I agree with Andaas? Mostly. Is bolding all this shit a pain in the ass? You bet!
Of course Thuggo is right. I just hate pork and am adamantly anti-pork and pork products. Please do not eat pork and reply to my posts.
Thanks.
So, the product of all of this is that, in order for her to be safe, she has to invent a new religon that demands pork consumption at every meal?
Clearly the issue here is pork, and the level of worship it deserves. Do not worship pork and suffer!
Actually, religious views aside and stepping into the dangerous world of harsh objectivism: (Insert religious insult here) are (censored by most television stations)
It's a lot easier if I let you fill in the insult. Then I don't seem so mean~
I just want to see how much money she makes when she sues the company.
Im going to go back to eating my diet of Hotdogs, Corndogs and Pork.
If i made enough money out of it and had money to blow, id open a business right across from them that only sold pork.
I dont eat pork. And it isnt for health reasons, and it isnt because I dont like it. I dont eat pork so that at least 3 times a day I think about God and my relationship with God. I think this is the deeper reasons why jewish people keep kosher, and muslims keep halal.
-hs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinen
Vinen is on the Atkins diet it sounds like.
Naah just that, what can I cook in about 1 minute diet.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobDole901
Quote:
The woman KNEW the issue before she took the job, she decided to eat pork anyway, not once but twice, probably without consulting her bosses on her feelings toward the policy.
As far as this being a religious issue, its not. Vegetarians could argue the same case with different views, but that does not lead to being religious.
The bottom line is, she's no different then anyone else in this world. She recognized a flaw in a company that would then lead to a perfect opportunity to work for an organization that wouldn't have enough binding agreements to force certain issues in court about the *eating pork* idea that was being influenced in their work center. Therefore she began to eat her pork and when the company fired her she did what she set out to do from the beginning, start her law suit.
some people would say this is smart thinking to be able to notice something so little but yet so big while others would say she has no morals and she lacks respect for others. I personally could care less which of these statements is true, b/c the majority of Americans in today’s imperfect society are yet blinded by their own reality, and heres where the irony comes in. They don't even realize it.
PS: i just wanted to be in the book PEOTR!!!!!!!!! hahahah
Sorry I haven't been able to post to this thread for a few days. Honest, I've been writing a manifesto.
People seem to think I support the business, or that I believe the business has legal grounds to defend the lawsuit. In our current situation, I'm afraid the business might be SOL.
What I really feel - I don't care about the business, it's not my business so I have nothing to say about it. And sadly, I do believe the business will lose this lawsuit.
For a country that is supposed to be founded on freedom we are curiously driven to legislate what people can and cannot do. We are curiously driven to take businesses or people to court for the purpose of ... well, it seems like for the purpose of making money, although we pretend that we are 'punishing' the evil company. We are curiously driven to create laws that over-define things that are already illegal.
Freedom begins when you are allowed two things and required to do two things:
You are allowed:
1) The freedom to do what you want with your own life - this includes total ownership of your own mind and your own body.
2) The freedom to do what you want with your own property, including your own business.
You are required to:
1) Be responsible for yourself and your own actions.
2) Not create a harm or hazard to others.
We are a multi-cultural society founded on the premise of Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness. In spite of this, many organizations are bent on forcing everyone to homogonize to sameness. This happens in all spectrums - left, right, conservative, liberal, religious, atheist.
Since we lack any guiding principles, we legislate. It's a constant game in this country to see who can force a legislation on other people. We also refuse to take responsibility for ourselves, and we require our government to create huge safety nets for that save us from stupidity. Hell, I'm gonna sue Sony for creating an addictive game that has ruined my life.
We must 1) Take responsibility for ourselves, and 2) Realize that we have no right to dictate to anyone else. Anyone attempting any legislation that interferes with Rule 1 or Rule 2 should be in violation of the law.
I hear some people saying, "AHA! But the muslim company was dictating its principles to the woman, not the other way around!"
Perhaps, yes, but living in a free, multi-cultural society requires all of us to accept others and to realize that other cultures and lifestyles will have an impact on us. This is just like a line of restaurants - one is Chinese, one is Italian, one is Mexican, one is Thai, one serves sushi, and one is a steakhouse. You don't expect the Mexican restaurant to serve Chow Mein, and you don't expect the Italian restaurant to serve ridiculously expensive and minute portions of vinegar-flavored rice. But you may enter each restaurant of your own free choice. You may decide to do business with whichever establishment suits your tastes and mood.
The Mexican restaurant cannot legislate that the Hindu restaurant serve beef.
So - we have freedom of restaurants. And don't tell me the woman would be allowed to eat pork on the premises if she worked for a vegetarian restaurant. And don't tell me that vegetarianism is a form of religion, either. Each restaurant is allowed to be what it wants to be, and is free to succeed or fail based on its appeal to customers. From this tiny principle comes the great correlation between enterprise and freedom - if you are determined to live a particular lifestyle, you must create or acquire the wealth / property that allows you to live without compromise.
Freedom begins with the right to do what you want with all that is yours. If you are allowed any freedom at all it must be the freedom to be yourself and to do what you want with your own property. If a Muslim living in a free country is not able to create a business where he feels his business and his employees represent his values, then we don't live in a free country. Welcome to the basic of Fascism.
Heil Hitler! Let the beatings begin.
-- Peotr (The Normal Guy) ©™
P.S. Sure, you can be a Muslim in our country. But you gotta be a Muslim that acts just like the rest of us Americans.
P.P.S. In an article in the 1932 Enciclopedia Italiana, written by Giovanni Gentile and attributed to Benito Mussolini, fascism is described as a system in which "The State not only is authority which governs and molds individual wills with laws and values of spiritual life, but it is also power which makes its will prevail abroad. ...For the Fascist, everything is within the State and ... neither individuals or groups are outside the State. ...For Fascism, the State is an absolute, before which individuals or groups are only relative."
Would we even be having this conversation if the woman worked for PETA rather than a Muslim company?
Ok. I'll shut up now.
Then she would just be a hypocrit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinilaa
Quote:
Freedom begins with the right to do what you want with all that is yours. If you are allowed any freedom at all it must be the freedom to be yourself and to do what you want with your own property.
To define freedom in such ways in what humans can and can't do and/or have would take to long. To have the right to choice what you want to do and when you want to do them is a conversation for the birds, per say. Everyone stacks certain life values into the freedom category, when the truth of the matter is no one is totally free, which would rule out the term FREEDOM. We all live in a world despite our rules and differences that are based off laws and those laws will forever restrain us from being totally free. Yes one might say you have the freedom of speech and the freedom to protest, (that fall under the 10 commandments) but yet people can be put in jail for just saying “I will kill you”.
From the day a toddler is brought fourth into this world, they are taught to follow certain rules, and guidelines throughout its development process of becoming an individual. Some of which aren’t defined in any contract or agreement that ties Americans to live by but yet they are still influenced and can be punished for.
If one were free then wouldn't the freedom to do as you pleased when you wanted to rule out both of these ideas?Quote:
You are required to:
1) Be responsible for yourself and your own actions.
2) Not create a harm or hazard to others.
Webster defines freedom as one or all of the following:
Quote:
1. The condition of being free of restraints.
2. Liberty of the person from slavery, detention, or oppression.
3.
a. Political independence.
b. Exemption from the arbitrary exercise of authority in the performance of a specific action; civil liberty: freedom of assembly.
4. Exemption from an unpleasant or onerous condition: freedom from want.
5. The capacity to exercise choice; free will: We have the freedom to do as we please all afternoon.
6. Ease or facility of movement: loose sports clothing, giving the wearer freedom.
7. Frankness or boldness; lack of modesty or reserve: the new freedom in movies and novels.
8.
a. The right to unrestricted use; full access: was given the freedom of their research facilities.
b. The right of enjoying all of the privileges of membership or citizenship: the freedom of the city.
9. A right or the power to engage in certain actions without control or interference: “the seductive freedoms and excesses of the picaresque form” (John W. Aldridge).
Food for thought, for every one of these ideas, (for that’s all they are) which is based around a perfect society which we are not, there is a rule and or guideline that’s either in writing or not by legislature that will counter act and out rule your whole mentality of being free. Now this will draw a lot of speculation and will lead to, well we are free, we have to freedom to (insert what you think defines freedom here) and I would have to agree to a certain extent that we are free to choose what we want to THINK b/c no one can control your thoughts. It’s just when you react to your thoughts and they become reality one realizes how far freedom goes. So the question at hand is, are we as Americans totally free? The answer would appear to be false, but then everyone has their own opinion on what they consider being free means.
You are correct, they cannot. This was not done.Quote:
The Mexican restaurant cannot legislate that the Hindu restaurant serve beef.
No that is not freedom, that is bigotry. He is NOT free to hire and fire people using religion as a criteria. Following your logic I should be able to create a corporation wherein I only hire white male christians. It is my background and I do feel most comfortable with people of this ethnic and religious background. That policy would be predjudiced and would rightfully be called into question.Quote:
If a Muslim living in a free country is not able to create a business where he feels his business and his employees represent his values, then we don't live in a free country. Welcome to the basic of Fascism.
Those defending the boss are in effect saying to me that because the boss is a muslim he should be granted special rights based on his religion. No, not in my country. He has the same freedom to choose his religion as everyone else. But the same laws protect him from being fired based on his religion prevent him from firing others for that very same reason.
The corporate policy was based on a religious more, that is illegal. The fact that she was fired was based on this illegal corporate policy. This woman lost her job because of and illegal corporate policy, she was wronged, she should be able to collect for this. It doesn't matter if she intentionally set out to cause a stir, what the company did was illegal. She's right and they are wrong.
PETA is a private not for profit institution. The laws governing it are different. They are fully able to allow only vegans to join. Now if they were a corporation paying taxes, selling stock, etc then the laws would be different.
Thuggo you are right. However, they did not exclude this woman from their organization because she was Catholic... They tried to create a lunchroom where EVERYONE felt comfortable. They did not expect her to be Muslim or to adopt their faith, they asked her to please refrain from flouting the tenets of their faith on their property. There is a subtle difference here I think you're just choosing not to see it. ;)
I still lub though! :o
KOOLAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I like that quote Vin. I thought that most e e cummings stuff barely made any sense :D
It all makes sense to me... :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eomer
But it's an odd sort of sense...
Buffalo Bill's
defunct
who used to
ride a watersmooth-silver
stallion
and break onetwothreefourfive pigeonsjustlikethat
Jesus
he was a handsome man
and what i want to know is
how do you like your blueeyed boy
Mister Death
- e.e. cummings
/e Takes a Bite how of his Hotdog, then stares at the pork hes going to have for dinner.
Damnit get the hell out of here with your nasty pork products!!! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Vinen
Yummy Hotdog!, this has to be one of the cuteist pictures i have ever seen.
Hi Peotr you don't know me but we have very similar views on moderation and tolerance and I really liked your posts. At first glance I swallowed your arguments hook, line and sinker however on a second reading there are some things I must nit pick. In the interests of fair play I'll just tip my hand now and let you know I'm probably one of those who has replaced religion with logic. If I'm going to accept your beliefs as my own I require consistancy.
So you are saying that America used to be more tolerant and is moving towards less tolerant as time goes by? I don't think this is true but maybe I'm just a victim if revisionist history, can you provide links or recommend books that support this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Peotr
Someone already brought this up, you seem to be redefining the term "Freedom" this is not a good way to premiss your arguments. If you are just saying the freedom we are supposed to have, I don't think you are making it clear enough. You seem to be actually redefining freedom.Quote:
true freedom is the right to do anything you want provided that it does not create harm or hazard to others (including your dependent children). Outside of that right, true freedom requires that you accept others as they are, it means that you understand that others WILL HAVE an affect on your life, and you are required to be vigilant in the protection of other people's choices of expression. Freedom means TOLERANCE for others. That is freedom.
If the waitress was not cool and not sexy, could you understand the problem the guy had with her ash print?Quote:
I was bartending at a local bar when one of the waitresses came to work from an Ash Wednesday Mass with the little thumbprint of ash on her forehead. A customer got pissed about it (I don't know why, she was a really cool and very sexy woman) and he complained to her and then complained to me.
Does making fun cause harm?Quote:
Welcome to America. We cherish making fun of other country's beers, customs, food, laws, business methods, lifestyles, fashion, sexual practice, movies, media, etc., while being equally bored with the tasteless sameness of our own.
Are you saying that you are "right" and can prove it with logic?Quote:
P.S. If you want to come back at me with a whole bunch of "What about this? What about this? What about this?" statements, then you don't get it. And if you don't get it, you're still part of the problem. Feel free to disagree with me, we can argue this over and over and over until you get it.
I think your "fear" that the business is SOL and your "sadness" over them losing the lawsuit might lead people to believe you support the business. But that's just me :pQuote:
People seem to think I support the business, or that I believe the business has legal grounds to defend the lawsuit. In our current situation, I'm afraid the business might be SOL.
What I really feel - I don't care about the business, it's not my business so I have nothing to say about it. And sadly, I do believe the business will lose this lawsuit.
I find it strange and interesting that I agree with your philosophy but come down on the side of the woman in this case. Do I get it, or will it take a few more years?
Yendii Wazzup
This statement is the main reason why i disregarded Peotr's initial post. Maybe he thinks hes got it... and maybe im myopic, but I can't see this quite so clear as him. Perhaps im in the same boat as Yendii, and its truly sad that its going to take me weeks, months and years until i finally get it.Quote:
P.S. If you want to come back at me with a whole bunch of "What about this? What about this? What about this?" statements, then you don't get it. And if you don't get it, you're still part of the problem. Feel free to disagree with me, we can argue this over and over and over until you get it.
Or maybe im not the one that needs to get it.. Maybe logic is so twisted and reverted that the most basic principle is overlooked. I don't know what true freedom is.. but this day and age, anytime anyone loses a right, even if its eating pork, people are going to object. Unfortunatly, somehow, someway, we all got stuck with the patriot act. Thats a much bigger issue and loss of freedom than eating bacon at work.
agree
I would argue that all bets are off when you impose your will on others. This guy had the freedom to worship as he pleases, regardless of me thinking that his religion is <insert unflattering word here>. Then, he said she couldn't either.
Wanker :D
I think I can sum this all up with something a good friend of mine used to say, "I love pork".
I like getting porked. Hmm. Get it? PORKED.
laffo. :|
AAAARGH! Very busy, no time to reply.
Sadness overcomes me. I will return to this on... like ... Tuesday. =(
-- Peotr (The Normal Guy) ©™