Patch is Wednesday, November 7th... so Tuesday would be the last night to kill Vyemm/Vulak.
Printable View
Patch is Wednesday, November 7th... so Tuesday would be the last night to kill Vyemm/Vulak.
Baramos if you can show me where in the Rotation Guidelines that once a month pass exists you might have a case.
It is my understanding its a "loose rule", as such the majority of opinions on this IGB would matter. The majority say you cannot apply it to 15 mobs, only to 1 mob.
If you are not there Wends, we will be. Oh and you are welcome to reserve 1 of the NToV mobs till thurs. That is fine with me, and would be a valid use of the 24hr extention.:cool:.
Just another issue to think about...
ML states that they wish to use their pass on NToV this Wednesday for "Halloween fun" events, because fun is the most important thing for your guild members. Fair enough, but I will take that to assume that ML plans on passing all other patch related spawns they are up for too then.
Thus, Tormax and Lendinaira should be available to the guilds following in the rotation if you were to get this 24 hour pass, correct?
One thing that is upsetting me here is ML trying to abuse a loose rule and delay everyone just to aquire 2 more mobs.
If you will be passing on Tormax and Lend wendsday, then that is something entirely different...
Like I said before, we'd see how the membership feels tomorrow night regarding those two. We'll be sure to give you enough notice for them.
Christ, why is it that hard for Hoss and Vind to show some of the same courtesy they've been shown, and just say "okay guys, good luck in there, let us know if things change"?
Andaas -
No, we consider Len and Tormax fun, too. We plan on killing both these rotation MOBs tomorrow, and this is one of the reasons we're using our monthly extension.
Ciner -
The 24 hour "extension" has been used since (forever). Let's not pretend it doesn't exist. It's valid for a rotation event, not a MOB. Until we add a clause in the rotation rules, any guild can continue to use it, for any rotation.
Andaas -
As to Vyemm/Vulak, I would not want to see rottage, obviously. I'd obviously not promise anything to Hoss, since I don't know what our status will be by then. I'm not immediately against offering some accomodation to prevent an obvious "rot", but unfortunately, I've run out of time to talk here. Talk to Quintall in-game about it. Or Korona. Or Roh.
Guys - I have to get to real work, now, and prepare to leave town. Try and stop being hardasses, everyone. It will just push us to FFA, and I think we can agree that no one wants that.
Way I see it is this:
1) Hoss and Vind relax about this "24 hour thing". Just drop it. The extension has been valid all along, and you're suddenly trying to change things, the day we agree to what Andaas had previously posted. We can ratify the rule, if it makes everyone happy, but ML's not going to get jammed because 2 guys decide out of the blue, that it's "not fair." The rules determine that.
2) Hoss and Vind negotiate with each other on who gets to kill what MOB in NToV tonight.
3) ML takes its (valid) extension tomorrow.
4) Quintall and Andaas discuss the possibility of spawn rottage due to patch, of Vulak. Whatever they decide should include mutual benefit.
Quint's going to have to take over from here.
Bara
What courtesy has ML shown Vindi? You've never made an exception like this for us and you wouldnt if we were in your shoes.
Your blatently trying to use a loose rule to get two additional mobs and hold up every single guilds Ntov rotation.
It isn't even very difficult to do Lend before an NToV raid actually, hell, you're in the same zone already, just pop her and then zone out/in and you're ready to go (or CoH).
I think the point that we are making here is that ML does not seem to have the committment/drive toward NToV that other guilds who wish to go there seem to have.
Both Hoss and Vindication want to be in NToV, period. If I could raid somewhere every day, it would be in NToV.
ML, since you have other spawns up, and halloween to occupy you, why not trade your NToV raid? Since you are willing to cut yourself short by starting a day late already, why not just wait a week?
Doing that would allow Vindication, who IS willing to start their raid tomorrow, a full week to kill in NToV. ML could then start the following Wednesday, nothing lost.
And no I always considered the extention was for a MOB not an "event" wtf is that heh.
Vindi still does not recognize your wends extention as a legit rule.
Please do not misquote me. I did not say it was not a rule I mearly said according to Vindi it did not apply to the entire Ntov, but only to one mob. Andaas posted he agree'd that it only applied to one mob.
As the rule is not written anywhere it would be a majority decision...
Andaas's proposal is acceptible to Vindi.
We would be willing to start asap and go till Tuesday. Leaving a fully respawned NToV for ML on wends.
Here is what is up right now:
Yelinak
Klandicar
Lendiniara
Dain?
Zlandicar
4-5 Ntov dragons
Eashen/Ikatiar
All 3 Warders (been up 3 days now..)
All these mobs are up, who is killing what.. Since I know some guilds who are up for some rotationwise just arent going to get them before the night is over.
As far as I know...
Yelinak-Hoss as per rotation?
Klandicar-L`malla as per rotation
Lendiniara-L`malla as per rotation
Zlandicar-L`malla as per rotation
4-5 Ntov dragons-Not certian yet, perhaps Vindi/Hoss/ML
Eashen/Ikatiar-Not certian yet, perhaps Vindi/Hoss/ML
All 3 Warders (been up 3 days now..)-ML as per rotation?
The only problem I forsee is Malla with the three dragons, some may not get killed but we'll see.
One last thing reguarding Ntov post patch the 31st.
The problem Vindi has with it is ML starting thursday would get not only a full spawn this week but also a full spawn next week. That is what is unacceptible, and trying to use the 24hour rule to buy yourself such an extention is... well creative but flawed.
So, acceptible solutions to Vindi...
1) ML trades Ntov, we start tomororw and go till tues, ML starts after patch
2) ML starts Wends officially and leaves Tues night, allowing Vindi to get fresh patch spawn.
For the record, I see using a 24 hour pass on NToV to kill other rotation spawns to be in bad form and cheap. As Ciner has said, it is abusing a rule that very few people have ever even used, and abusing it to the great benefit of your guild.
NToV should be your priority, since you are up for it. I love how ML keeps quoting that anyone moving in to NToV on Wednesday will be committing a FFA act against ML.
The funny thing is, in the world of FFA servers, NToV is a big mess. Two or 3 guilds all in NToV simultaneously killing dragons, fun fun. Each guild killing whatever dragons they can get their hands on. Have you read the horror stories from Fennin lately? Remember Fennin, that slime pit many of us escaped from?
In the end, FFA would be interesting on this server, with all the capable guilds we have in NToV.
FFA in Ntov would actually be some what of a crazy kinda fun hehe.
Guys -
Got a chance to hit "refresh" between stuff.
This thread is amazing to me. All this energy being devoted to this. Hell, I thought you guys would be happy to get a shot at NToV MOBs tonight, not arguing over when ML would start its rotation.
ML, as I said before is going to abide the letter of the IGB rules.
This means an extension can be used. Andaas already acknowledged this, then changed his mind. Flip-flop. Flip-flop. I'm personally a bit irritated that people keep wanting to change rules mid-stream when it suits them to do so.
Yes, I say that it's an FFA act if you move in Wednesday, because we're using an extension that conforms to the letter of the rules here. It may be inconvenient to some, but that's the nature of rotations - sometimes people are inconvenienced. As I said, I don't have an issue with putting a clause in the rotations to exclude NToV from the "24 hour extension rule", but since we'd been planning all week on using the extension, we're sticking to it. This wasn't an attempt to "pull the wool over anyone's eyes", or to be "cheap", but was rather a scheduling reality necessary to keep on track. I would think the option to get rottage dragons would be appealing to both Vind and Hoss.
ML plans to take its extension tomorrow, as Andaas first suggested, and as we later acknowledged. We will be in NToV on Thursday night, in accordance with IGB rules.
Baramos
Dude I have offered some very viable solutions to this current problem.
1)ML could start officially wends, and still get the mobs they want... Tormax/Lend. Just taking a day off there own Ntov time to kill Lend/Tormax. And be out by patch day.
2)ML could trade Ntov with Vindi and still get the mobs they want Lend/Tormax. Vindi would be out by patch day and ML will still get full respawn.
Since you ignore my offers for an easier solution, I'll break the rules of this IGB down for you exactly
THERE IS NO WRITTEN RULE SAYING 24 HOUR PASS. If there were this arguement would not be happening cause it would say "mob" or "event" and we would have our answer.
Okay so once again THERE IS NO WRITTEN RULE SAYING 24 HOUR PASS on this entire board.
So, do we know if it should apply to a "mob" or an "event"? No.
How can we decide?
Well since the rules here are created by what the majority whats we must also do that in this instance. Hoss/Vindi agree ML cannot use a 24 hour extention on 15 mobs. Sorry ML you are overruled. Failure to be in Ntov tomorrow is considered a pass by the rules of this IGB.
And, had you bothered to read the full posts, you would have noted that ML offered, if shown some damn courtesy, to only do a 6 day turn and be done with NToV Tuesday, giving the next guild (Vind) a full respawn with the patch.
Don't bullshit us about using extansions to kill other mobs, every single guild here that has used one has done it with that in mind, and if I wanted to go through the archives and waste my evening the way I wasted my day, I could do so.
As far as showing Vind courtesy, it's happened, same with Hoss. Just say "good luck in there ML", and let it go already, we're abiding by the rules here, and not being greedy by pushing for multiple N ToV mobs, which we all know we could have done rather than come right out and say "go for it guys, work it out and have fun".
I haven't seen such crying since my 5 year old wanted dessert after every meal one day, you guys sound that bad, be adults about it.
Ciner, listen to what you just wrote:
"1) ML could start officially wends, and still get the mobs they want... Tormax/Lend. Just taking a day off there own Ntov time to kill Lend/Tormax. And be out by patch day."
And think about it for a minute. What do you think we've been saying the whole time, just in another manner?
"ML will be taking our single day extension and starting in N ToV Thursday"
"ML intends to be done in N ToV the day before the next patch if shown some courtesy, so the next guild up will have a full respawn."
Funny how alike these look.
Back up a minute and you'd see that too.
If you'll be out by patch day (Tues night last day there) we've np with ya doing Ntov this week whenever the hell you want.
Btw if one of the ML reps here has AIM or ICQ or IRC we could talk this shit out so much easier like Siren/Andy and I do when we've a conflict. Wouldnt need 5000 posts.
L`Malla is up for the Yelinak after Hoss, not ML. Just a heads up ;)
Just so we're clear here.
I don't want this to come up later.
Mythic will be in NToV up to and including Tuesday, of next week. (We'd no intention of crossing the patch boundary in the first place.)
In addition, since there is a patch coming next week, we may elect to do the dragons from the back. (Doubt it, but maybe).
This shouldn't affect anyone's MOB progression.
Bara
There are two Yelinaks up right now.
One where Vind left him last night (out by the gate in the hall), and one on the normal spawn spot.
Bara
Sounds fine Bara.
If ML says theyll be done with Ntov by next patch(tuesday ngiht) then who the hell cares when they start? next week is a patch and thus when x mob is being killed dont mean a damn thing.
I really dont think ML would try to take ntov mobs next week after a patch that falls on there 7th day. If that was there plan then I say torch the mother fuckers!
If ML plans are clearly to "be fruity festive fuckers" and kill tormax and lend and be done with ntov come tuesday night. Then I say be cool. Everyone be fonzy and stfu.
Now about this sontalak issue that Vind keeps pushing. What is the deal with that? But Vind i ask you, how many zlands did u kill Sunday? I heard reports of numerous times because Zland was spawning every hour. So before you starting preaching, make sure you are of the righteous.
14 days without smoking and chewing and every fucking day gets worse.
L`Malla entered the rotation after it was made (10/24 was creation), hence the 'added 10/25' note there.
Work something out, all the fighting today to find out we were saying the same thing the whole time was tiring.
Anyone know if Dain's up?
Since tomorrows issues somewhat solved.
Wondering about what was decided on Sont also. We got 1 Zlan which was counted as our rotation. I'd expect ML to sit out a Sont rotation since they scored two last night.
Unsure on Zland. Not up now....hearing various people saying he was up. NK was there this morning, but claim they didn't touch him.
*shrug*
Just got word, CT is up. Good luck Vind. :)
CT traded with ML, good luck in st/fear.
Nk struggled with last attempt of talendor .... dont think unless they had help, that they could even do zland....
Just something to think about
Klandicar dead
Lend dead
My original proposition of killing Aaryonar within the 1st 48 hours of an NToV raid was less about keeping respawn tidy, and more of proving worth.Quote:
Originally posted by Baramos1
In addition, since there is a patch coming next week, we may elect to do the dragons from the back. (Doubt it, but maybe).
If you look back on ML's last NToV raid, ML failed to Aaryonar (who is actually one of the easier dragons back there), on their reclearing. I stand by the fact that Aaryonar should be killed within 48 hours of the raid starting. This was not intended to be a "1 time" proving of capability, but an ongoing test.
Since ML is choosing to spend the 1st day of their NToV raid killing Lend and Tormax, if Aaryonar isn't dead on Wednesday, your raid should be over.
LOL.
No.
Bara
Yar, I know we joined 10/25 =) ML failed 10/28, Vind failed 10/29, and Hoss has yet to go. According to the rules, that would place us next after Hoss, since every guild will have had a shot since our join date. Hence my post of us being next. Don't wanna bump heads, just makin sure a clerical error doesn't force us another month down the rotation, or a week at it's current kill rate. That was a joke, btw.:p
CT Dead.
3 Warders Dead.
So Mythic isn't going to agree to the NToV standards that everyone else has agreed to?Quote:
Originally posted by Baramos1
LOL.
No.
Bara
As Baramos would say, if Mythic doesn't kill Aaryonar by the end of their raid on Thursday, and is in NToV on Friday, that will be a FFA act against Vindication.
Seriously, we have been discussing NToV for weeks. We have stated a few standards that nobody has contested. Why must ML do things against these standards? And yes, this was mentioned to you on your last NToV raid, and you went against it then as well, so this is a repeated problem with ML.
Andaas.
You're a trouble-starting lil guy aren't you.
Ok, let me make it simple.
We have made it clear - crystal clear - that we're test driving a set of rules that we can mold that we can all find reasonable.
Rohaisa already responded to the point of the "gatekeeping test" saying that once proven, it doesn't really matter.
No rules have been ratified by Mythic, and I personally think it's bogus to require people to continue to "prove" anything, just because you think we should. Mythic flat-out refuses that "clause" of the proposed set of rules, in fact, if that was your intent of the statement.
One someone's killed Aary, I don't really care what order they kill the dragons in. As a matter of courtesy, it would be nice for them to kill Aary first, but no requirement.
So, no, there's no FFA act, because there's not a ratified set of rules yet.
We haven't even really ratified how long the 7 day rule is going to last. I'm fine with letting it go on forever.
I think you find all this thrashing amusing, Andaas, with your passive-aggression. Have your fun. Doesn't change what we're doing in NToV this week, though.
Pound sand, brat.
Bara