Mass changes

Mitsy, you are proposing that they fix AC, so AC actually matters. But if they do this, it won't move a monks tanking capabilities, since most monks have just as high AC as warriors, or in many cases probably even higher thanks to their bonus.

A quote from Shaidi in VT: "wow that mob missed me 9 times in a row".

.. silly monks :P.

I'm happy about the changes myself, I think they were well needed to be able to change EQ from the way it was in SoL, as a melee, EQ has not been anywhere near as fun in SoL as it was back in SoV.

I think most people could see the changes coming really, I've lost count on the times I've heard that a monk tanks better than a warrior, hell the monks themselves have been posting this on their own boards, no monk can deny this, and I don't think any monk in their right mind can say that they should be able to tank as good as a warrior.

/Aedail

I have to agree with Sirensa on the mod2 change. Mod2 trivialized alot of SoV's content, making alot of the mobs way easier than they should be, by nerfing mod2 they will bring the encounters back to closer how hard they used to be back then, does this necessarily have to be a bad thing? I don't think so.

/Aedail

Modrod2 = manastone. /shrug

Hehe, I'm not bitter :) It just seems that the timing of these nerfs is way too coincidental with PoP coming out very soon. It seems to me that the changes are a beta test for the encounters they want to have in PoP.

None of these changes would have affected my Ranger anyways. Although I do still say archery mastery should have been toned down ages ago. but that's another story!

why should they retune SoV mobs(cept maybe RoV since hes after velious) when every encounter was killed before luclin ie with 0 mod rod 2.
on some SoL mobs of course i see the need to retune them.
about monk nerf: i think they had to do something with them compared to knights/warriors. but we all dont know what excact they did . i dont want to coment about that until i see the result:)
CH: this change is for pop only in SoL you dont realy have 7500 heals anyways.
mod rod2: that thing was broken in my eyes:)
MB: some people on some servers were dicks who cannot wield power so there ya go~

I think a big part of the problem is that people think every mob should be killable by their guild. When AoW was first created he was thought to be unkillable, but with player improvements that changed and then seru came along, who was tuned to be unkillable, and that changed. With modrod2 gone it will mean that strategy will start to become more in play for guilds. No longer can you just stack a hundred rods off to the side and make skill trivial.

Back to the days of guildleaders and tacticians trying various strategies to accomplish the impossible, and fewer guilds being able to kill mobs even after endless errors, saved by poor content.

It's about to be a tough time for mid-tier guilds that counted on modrods, but hopefully they'll welcome the chance to play smarter.

Varran

All theese changes was needed to be done. Maybe they are just releasing it so late cause we will be fed up with PoP while they make the retuning in SoL. Hopefully they will make encounters more fun, atleast it is possible now. But i have almost lost my faith in verants ability to make a change for the better.
/shrug

I disagree with the notion that the current encounters don't require skill or tactics. The current encounters are currently about just that, skill and tactics. People seem to forget this as we become better at dealing with errors. Most of the current Luclin encounters would be undoable by many guilds with their current numbers without modrods. All this change will do is require MORE players thus encouraging Zerg fest 2003. This is with the mobs in their current state. Lowering the hitpoints will NOT encourage guilds that currently don't kill these mobs to suddenly find tactics or skill. But, with the overkill of players, they will zerg the mobs to death if the mobs are not tuned correctly. Just lowering the hitpoints won't solve that problem or make the encounters anymore exciting.

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Originally posted by Tilea
Hehe, I'm not bitter :) It just seems that the timing of these nerfs is way too coincidental with PoP coming out very soon. It seems to me that the changes are a beta test for the encounters they want to have in PoP.

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Uhm, Tilea, did you even read VI's thing? That is EXACTLY why they are doing the changes now, because PoP is coming out. They are not a beta test for how they want encounters however. Their reason for changing this stuff is because several things that were changed (mod rods especially) were basically handcuffing their ability to make encounters new and interesting.

Eomer is correct. Verant basically lacks so much creativity they are unable to create encounters that use items currently in the game.

True Aedail sorta. When you say most monks have the same AC your right most "high end" monks do. If AC matter then a warrior would actually strive to get more AC. Sure your #1 warrior and your #1 monk have close AC. But now if that warrior actually strived for AC (ie not using pants with 16ac because they have 65hps =) then im sure that warrior would be well above what the monk is.

Your average 60 monk has 1100-1200ac vs your average 60 warrior is about 1200-1300 now if AC matter your average 60 warrior could easily attain 1400+.

I agree with monks not being "the best or even the 3rd best tank". When a monk gets hit they should take damage like a druid(ie leather). But avoidance should be high enough where since they dont get as often it puts them somewhere near SK/Pal in total damage taken per session >>>IMO<<<.

In a perfect world agi and dex would improve a monks avoidance and this would all be moot(sp?) but it's Verants world =)

Who knows changes haven't even happened yet. Maybe they will do exactly as I said. But until they fix AC the nerf is only gonna be felt by your lower monks without high ac gear >>IMO<<.

Mitsy

I thought AGI did add to avoidance AC or something?

It's like 9agi = 1ac or something

Mitsy

Once you're past the 130 mark on agi I think it makes little difference.

Eh, they made the higher end game somewhat rougher, but if they keep up with their promise to tune high end mobs I think it will add an interesting element to gameplay. Since they introduced modrod2 a couple of shamans, and a dedicated mage and cleric crew could keep up a mt for an unlimited amount of time without running oom (on gimp stuff anyways). Which means, even with the gimpest dps, I'm talking Rajakhan quality here, you could have all the time you wanted to pummel on the mob. That seemed a little broken.
Complete heal was becoming more and more powerful, and even though this is like pulling out, running and hopping in a cab on your honeymoon, it opens the door for some new heals in PoP. Plus CH rots are boring or disenchanting for clerics from waht I've read :|
I won't bitch too much about the monks getting their mitagation reduced, because the only difference between me and a warrior was about 900~ hp, a discipline and taunt (broken or not, you still got a button for it :/) and my higher avoidance rate. Not that I'm a huge fantasy/lore fan or whatever, but a warrior encased of 3 cubic feet of enchanted aluminum or whatever should probably take a pimp slap with a little more grace than some guy running around in really tight leather and falling over repeatedly.

I'd bargain for dodge from behind though. I mean, they teach that in like grade one of Ninja school :D

AC and AGI 101
agi works in an odd way

if you have good agi i //think// it works w/ your AC to make you get missed by mobs more
if you have crap AGI but crazy ac you should take almost every hit but not as much dmg
but w/ the AC cap its you just wana ignore ac and think about Hp more, agi helps but i dont like random things (and have crappy agi!)

-ps
the points that you see agi do more i dont know off the top of my head
but if i rember right at like 4 points from 0 to 225 the agi to ac thing jumps up

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Originally posted by Varran

It's about to be a tough time for mid-tier guilds that counted on modrods, but hopefully they'll welcome the chance to play smarter.

Varran

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Possibly. but then again they could also have the the extra 5 lvls and other ability's that POP provides.

But until the product arrives and people get the lvls etc then ya.

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Originally posted by Mitsy
True Aedail sorta. When you say most monks have the same AC your right most "high end" monks do. If AC matter then a warrior would actually strive to get more AC. Sure your #1 warrior and your #1 monk have close AC. But now if that warrior actually strived for AC (ie not using pants with 16ac because they have 65hps =) then im sure that warrior would be well above what the monk is.

Your average 60 monk has 1100-1200ac vs your average 60 warrior is about 1200-1300 now if AC matter your average 60 warrior could easily attain 1400+.

I agree with monks not being "the best or even the 3rd best tank". When a monk gets hit they should take damage like a druid(ie leather). But avoidance should be high enough where since they dont get as often it puts them somewhere near SK/Pal in total damage taken per session >>>IMO<<<.

In a perfect world agi and dex would improve a monks avoidance and this would all be moot(sp?) but it's Verants world =)

Who knows changes haven't even happened yet. Maybe they will do exactly as I said. But until they fix AC the nerf is only gonna be felt by your lower monks without high ac gear >>IMO<<.

Mitsy

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What matters but the end result of how much damage you take? 1 Discipline and less stamina per hit point is not what I call an accurate gap between monks and warriors! Especially if sans disc you tank better than them.

And comparable classes of each. Saying norma" monks means you also compare to normal warriors, so if you level the playing field, the situation remains the same!

And I think the sk/paladins would have something to say if you compromised to saying you would tank as good as them! They need an improvement badly enough already.

People are obviously abusing the power of Mod Rod 2 in certain zones...having unlimitted mana is just nuts... I just remember times (plenty of times) that mobs were killable in SoV without the use of Mod Rod 2...what did it take? i guess only the super l33t ppl who have done it would know...but like Forty said... Mod Rod 2 = Mana stone... and in many areas in Norrath....you dont need a Mod Rod to kill a boss...

Just limit Mod Rod 2 to Luclin Zones pls...the way Mana Stone was limitted to the old world only...if anything....limit the Mod Rod 2 to the l33test zones like Ssra, VT, & maybe Seru...at least just for starters...JUST for starters...then MAYBE if its still not enough...follow through with plan B which is what was metioned.

Okay many ppl have already mentioned how skill is trivial due to the fact that the only thing u need to worry about is just Chain CH with unlimitted mana through mod roding... but pls explain to me why there are only 1-2 guilds per server who can kill things (As in "sh*t that mob was super hard and the best so and so guild could kill it..now we can too")? I dun wanna point fingers but there really arent many guilds out there who has mastered the CH order yet to even claim it trivial (yes elitest guilds are exempted from this statement). Yes Chain CH SHOULD NOT prolly be the way of doing things...but even though it exists...not many guilds can still do it... and now... in all honesty, i feel that some of these guilds can only do it or kill things Pre-Luclin due to the mod rod 2. Take it out out of the pre luclin zones and maybe u can look for more strategy and tactics and not just 3 clerics for a KT fight. But the top bosses in SoL are just too scary to even look at without a gazzillion modrods sorrounding you coming from a view point of a cleric. So even with the Skill and Strat Trevial due to the CH / Mod Rod combo....i wonder why there's only one guild so far (yup im sure it'll change in the future coz i believe that there is more strategy involved in killing bosses than just gobblin rods) in DRo who can kill the High Priest-not even gonna mention emp yet. He's been out for over a year and other guilds still cant kill him even with their oh so exaulted CH / Mod Rod ability.

PS...never in my entire life would i have imagine to kill Vindicator with about 10 ppl and me only gobbling 1 rod... Stomp ur nutz =P(sorry you died when he had 1% life though but grats on ur BP)

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Originally posted by Angelie
People are obviously abusing the power of Mod Rod 2 in certain zones...having unlimitted mana is just nuts... I just remember times (plenty of times) that mobs were killable in SoV without the use of Mod Rod 2...what did it take? i guess only the super l33t ppl who have done it would know...but like Forty said... Mod Rod 2 = Mana stone... and in many areas in Norrath....you dont need a Mod Rod to kill a boss...

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Actually Angelie the whole dropping of rods was popular back before Luclin even( with mod rod1). Around the time alot of guilds started doing Ntov even, it became a somewhat common job for mages to do, while killing the various dragons there and for the coh rotations etc. But ofcourse with luclin and the introduction of modrod 2, made it so that Magicians roles in high end raiding were primarily a mana giver. And it's sad really that it turned out that way.

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Originally posted by Zarxen


Actually Angelie the whole dropping of rods was popular back before Luclin even( with mod rod1). Around the time alot of guilds started doing Ntov even, it became a somewhat common job for mages to do, while killing the various dragons there and for the coh rotations etc.

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Aye I am aware of the usage of the Mod Rod 1 in Pre Luclin encounters...but u cannot even possibly compare the value between mod rod 1 and mod rod 2...if they were even nearly comparible...ppl wont even be bothering on flaming so much about the nerfing of the current mod rod 2...for fun's sake one time Arcius was summoning Mod Rod 1 in ntov b4 the Hoss RoV quest...ask him how much ppl laughed at it =P

I have no probs with mod rod 1 since its not nearly as good as mod rod 2...but please...Mod rod 2 is at a whole new level ... super level