Rotation Schedule

The only thing I find odd is that I requested that ST warders be downgraded from a rotation spawn to an unrotated spawn 3 or 4 times at least, and it never happened.

Baramos requests once for Yelinak to be moved to the rotation list and it happens.

I guess Quintall doesn't lub me. :(

Seriously though, I think that there should be an agreement by at least 2 guilds before any mob is moved from one list to another. Since only Hoss requested warders moved to unrotated list, and ML didn't concur, they remained rotated. Since only ML requested Yelinak to be moved to rotation, we should get agreement from others before that move happens. Perhaps Hoss/Vindication don't have the intention to kill Yelinak on every cycle.

I dont see where it says on teh unrotated ubers post that the mob must be up, in fact, the word "intentions" implies something you plan on doing in the future.

several issues:

Are you now setting the rules according to your interpretation of them? Baramos you seem quite adamant in this and because of that, "ML is going to be prepping to kill Yelinak the very next time he pops. There will be no backing down by us on this at all."

Next, if Yelinak is as you say designated to become a rotation mob during a lapse of his being up, why does ML automatically get first crack? Seems to me all the other orders have been organized in order of posting, why are you attempting something different here?

"From this point on, ML will deal with Vindication precisely, exactly, according to the established rules on the IGB."

So these are then the rules according to your own interpretation?

Different story entirely, Andaas. You guys asked for a rotation, then squealed when it didn't suit your schedule. During this time, ML was still pissed about your blatant KS's of us at Kland, your stonewalling (with Vind) of ML during the May-June timeframe, and your guild's blatant theft of Ragefire from Vickausia (who'd been camping 80 hours, and all your stupid little excuses thereof. =)

So, after you asked for a rotation, you got it, brother. Full force.

If you'd relented during the 2 months of Klandicar rotations where you kept saying "oopsy pass", instead of being a man and saying you know, take us off that rotation, I'd have been more amenable to an ST change-of-behavior.

Fact is, you guys were still coming in to ST and killing.

There was NO ONE killing Kland but ML until last week.

You played your little game, and we played ours.

Cooperation, and reason is a two-way street.

Cooperation and reason can still be in our future.

Baramos

The very first time Yelinak was rotated, Vindication had killed him, then ML asked for rotation as we knew we would be killing him.

Vind insisted that the letter of the rotation rules showed they wuld get first kill on the rotation, then ML (in a nutshell). And that's exactly how it was done, and has been followed since then.

Your rules, your interpretation (well, was before your time Wyvern).

Not my interpretation Wyvern.

THE interpretation.

Vindication used that gay-ass rule on us right when we started rotations on Yelinak.

Now you get it back in spades. Fun, huh !

Earlier in this thread, I made an appeal to reason, an appeal to what's fair.

You guys shot it down, and now you can live with it.

Bara

We are following the rules to the T.

While I see you, Bara, trying to surmise what the rules mean in your own words.

As Quint said, he is correct, we made ML wait a rotation. Why you ask? Because there was no Unrotated Ubers section at that time, nor any rules reguarding the section.

As Wyvern said, even if Yel was legitly moved to Rotated. The schedule should be in order of posting, IE. Vindi > Hoss > ML > L`malla.

As Andaas said, he was never even legitly moved to the Rotated Mobs section as only one guild requested it done.

So if he was legitly moved to Rotated, Vindi should be up.

If he wasnt legitly moved and is still Unrotated, Vindi should be up.

Explain how that contradicts any rule in exsistace on this board please, then rethink who is going FFA on who.

Wyvern wrote:

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Next, if Yelinak is as you say designated to become a rotation mob during a lapse of his being up, why does ML automatically get first crack?

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Because that's what the official IGB Rotation Guidelines (that I have already quoted twice in this thread) specifically state.

Here, I'll fill in the blanks this time:

I. Adding a New rotation:

a. New Mobs: The guild (Mythic Legion) or guilds that have solely been accomplishing a mob (Yelinak) will start out the rotation. As each new guild(Vindication, Hoss, L`Malla) decides to try thier hand at the mob, thier name is added with a "join date". The new Joiner is added in the spot of the current rotation but must wait one full rotation before being "up" for the spawn.

I'm sorry, I dont see that rule listed on the current forum, perhaps you should take it up with the representatives of that time?

"(well, was before your time Wyvern)."

Please, don't make me laugh.

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Originally posted by Baramos1
So, after you asked for a rotation, you got it, brother. Full force.

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That was well and fine Baramos. However, after Hoss passed on ST warders what, 3 or 4 times straight, the spawn was ready to be downgraded to unrotated, even without my asking. This still never happened. There are 3 guilds on warders now, so their being on a rotation is fine.

However, this is all besides the point. I am proposing that for future spawns to move from one list to another that it takes the agreement of at least 2 guilds.

This may not apply to Yelinak, since I could care less about the orders on it - however, this is something we should set a standard for now, since it may happen again.

The standard was set, the rule was created from it, as shown by Roh Wyvern.

You weren't posting here at that time, so ya, it was 'before your time'.

I understand the Rotated Ubers rules Roh.

What I do not understand is why you are quoting them to me when infact, we posted our intentions when he was an Unrotated Uber, in accordance with the rules set forth for Unrotated Ubers.

Then, as Andaas has sited was moved to Rotated Ubers without proper clearance to do so.

The same can be said true of Klandicar, right Andaas? That is to say, after several passes by one guild, the only honorable thing to do is to remove it from rotation.

And no, since there is precedent for "2 guild rotations", then any spawn that has 2 guilds or more vying for it should be in a rotation.


Baramos

Oh yeah, forgot about this.

This is Section 1.b. of the Rotation Guideline.

This should also answer Wyvern and Ciner's questions:

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b. Old Mobs: When postings for a mob (Yelinak) become out of control (ie - booked for a month of spawns), or otherwise appear to be greatly "wanted", the mob can be placed on the rotation schedule. The guild who last killed the mob (Mythic Legion) goes first with the date of last kill, followed by the rest of the IGB members who are interested in no particular order.

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It can be. But, I see now where that it says the guild that decides weither it is moved or not is Mythic Legion. Perhaps you should make a clause? :cool:

In this case, where neither Hoss nor Vindication has stated they would be killing Yel reguarly, I see no validity why it would be moved or was moved to Rotated Ubers without asking the others involved.

That decision was made by ML alone with no authority to do so, infact it was done in spite of a past occurance where Andaas said one thing, ML said another and the mob was not moved.

So citing past experience, would think the majority of the guilds asking to kill would need to okay the move from Unrotated to Rotated. ML says ok, Vindi says no. Mob isnt moved at the molment.

What does Hoss say?

I don't see how postings for Yelinak have become out of control.

Hoss attempted Yelinak a few weeks ago for kicks, and was planning on heading back in to kill him based on being an unrotated spawn. We would take our turn when the time came, no worries on when that was.

When I saw Vindication request the next spawn, I felt it proper to state that Hoss wanted to give a go when the time came.

I forsee Yelinak as a spawn that Hoss will likely not hold a heavy rotation on killing (ie, if it were on a rotation, we would probably notify this forum of passes more often than not on the day of the respawn, so as not to stall it).

Ciner wrote:

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I see now where that it says the guild that decides weither it is moved or not is Mythic Legion. Perhaps you should make a clause?

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The Guideline states: "or otherwise appear to be greatly "wanted""

I think it's quite obvious that when four guilds want to kill a mob with a one week spawn, it then satisfies the condition of "greatly wanted".

If you don't agree with that I'd like some of what you're smoking.

Mythic Legion
Vindication
Hoss
L`Malla

All want to kill this mob. If that doesn't make it a candidate for rotation, I don't know what else does.

No "clearance" was needed by anyone Ciner. Read the rules for crying out loud.

It was obvious to any clear-thinking person that a rotation was in order. (Vind - I'm taking next Yel. Hoss - We're taking the one after that !) The mob is "greatly wanted", yeah. The mob is clearly a rotation mob.

Listen. We tried to be reasonable about this. We've tried being reasonable about NToV (sure guys - have fun.. go for it), and about Ragefire (sure bro - we don't want you to get hosed - this what happened? ok bro - hop in).

With Yelinak, we put ML at the back of the list initially, thinking specifically about Vind.

We asked for some reasonable behavior in return.

You guys said no.

Now, we're saying no.

If you guys want to continue thumping your chests, and telling your buds in your guild what badasses you are on the IGB, go ahead and play that game. But it's going to just make it tougher on every other single person here.

Show a little reason, a little flexibility, and you'll be shown the same regard by ML.

Baramos

Yes the mob is wanted, but nowhere does anyone say it is wanted regularly... thus justifying the need for a Rotation Schedule.

As Hoss has said, they will more than likely be only taking one here and there.

Vindi is also heavy in the rotation schedules and will probably be doing the same.

This mob should not have and cannot have been moved to Rotation Schedule without the majority of the guilds involved in the matter agreeing to do so... That from citing past experience where Hoss requested warders moved, ML did not. Mob was not moved.

Like I said, I could care less who kills Yelinak and when.

I do want to create some standard for moving spawns from one list to another though. Its something that needs to be done for the future (there *will* be things that are going to be unrotated in Luclin for awhile).

So, as I stated earlier, I propose that from this point forward, it requires the agreement of at least 2 guilds to get a spawn moved from one list to another. Can we all agree or disagree to this?

Let me reiterate again: THIS DOESN'T APPLY TO YELINAK THIS TIME. This is to keep this argument from happening in the future.

So if it doesn't apply to Yelinak this time, what does?

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but nowhere does anyone say it is wanted regularly

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Er, ML kills Yelinak every spawn day without fail. That's not regularly, how?

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That from citing past experience where Hoss requested warders moved, ML did not. Mob was not moved.

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The mob was not moved, but ML specifically told Hoss that we would relax the rotation and let the dragons stay up for several days if necessary so that Hoss could kill them on a weekend, which was the only day they had enough people on according to Ciner.

Mythic Legion was more than fair in that case.

Also, in that case ML was killing ST warders every spawn day without fail as well.

Again, if one guild wants a mob regularly, and other guilds want it as well, then it's obviously a rotation mob. If other guilds decide they don't want to kill it every single spawn, they can certainly "pass". That's why passing is acceptable.

Of course Andaas, dont see why one guild would make the decisions on weither a mob moves or not...

Which ML seems to think is there privilage..examples..

1)Not moving ST when Andaas requested so.

2)Now moving Yel because they wanted it so.

Wyvern wrote:

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So if it doesn't apply to Yelinak this time, what does?

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A strict interpretation of the IGB Guidelines, specifically rules 1.a and 1.b.

In response to Andaas -

The solution is very simple.

A mob belongs on the rotation list when the following happen:

1) A guild is killing that mob regularly, AND

2) Another guild determines that they want to kill it.

There is no "voting", it's just a simple function of logic. And it's beyond common sense. If one guild wants to kill it every time all the time, and another guild enters the picture, then making it a rotation mob is the only fair way to go about it.

I'm willing to yeild and let ML have Yel first, but you folks need to realize you do not run the Rotation Schedule.

As such you should not be moving things without others agreements.

Some of us do the same shit you folks do just with half the numbers, so would be nice for you folks to look around and realize you dont run this board... and what you say isnt the end of the issue...

We could do without statements like "ML is taking Yel no ifs ands or buts."

I disagree, I think Andaas's suggestion is quite reasonable. If its "beyond logic" then I'm sure all the guilds will agree and the Uber can be moved.

You're interpretation is one view Rohaise, however, if you look at the rules defined for the unrotated uber list you will note the following:

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If you are interested in fighting one of these mobs, this is the place to post intentions. Do not post intentions if you cannot follow through, or give timely notice if your plans change (ie, >24 hours).

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This means that a guild can post their advance intentions to kill a spawn (before it spawns, duh). Vindication did this, and Hoss chose to do the same. Yelinak was then moved to the rotation list per Baramos' request due to thinking that a full rotation was needed, when it seems from comments from both Vindication and Hoss, that it may not have been.

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For mobs that we all agree should be handled in this fashion, whichever guild was last to kill the specified mob give a 24 hour time frame upon respawn for others to make an attempt (not 24 hours per guild, just a single 24 hour period).

This 24 hour period can be waived if the repeating guild confirms with other proven capable guilds that they are not interested in the spawn on respawn day.

After 24 hours, the repeating guild can have there way with the mob.

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Rohaise posted:
Er, ML kills Yelinak every spawn day without fail. That's not regularly, how?

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You have not been following the rules. Were you checking with other capable guilds before killing Yelinak again within 24 hours of his spawn? No? OMG, bad kitty.

Vindication has proven capable of killing Yelinak, as such, should have been contacted per the above rule.
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FYI, these rules are being posted to be as "strict" as ML is trying to be. There are rules that were created on the unrotated uber list that the rotated list rules were not adjusted for.

This is why I have proposed we make a bridge in the rules between the two lists, since it is something that needs to be done.

Please take the above post over rules with a grain of salt... it was just an example, heh.

Voting is not reasonable. People will vote for whatever helps them at that moment in time rather than voting for the big picture.

In this case we now have 4 guilds wanting Yelinak, and the "votes" are that it should remain un-rotated.

Do you really, *really*, think Yelinak should be an unrotated mob?

If so, what will it take to make you change your mind?

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Originally posted by Rohaise
Do you really, *really*, think Yelinak should be an unrotated mob?

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Me personally? Yes.

Why you ask?

Well, Yelinak really doesn't drop anything that great. The only reason I see to kill him is for the ST key. Thats right, Yelinak is an ST key dragon, lol.

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Vindication has proven capable of killing Yelinak, as such, should have been contacted per the above rule.

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Actually, no they haven't.

Yelinak is in no way the same mob they killed in the past (what, 2 or 3 months ago?)

ML is still the only guild who has proven they can kill Yelinak v3.0.

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Please take the above post over rules with a grain of salt... it was just an example, heh.

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If you are going to use such a pointed example, pick one that can be taken with more than a few grains then.

Andaas -

Posting intentions was on the day the MOB popped.

The way that rule works is that Sont pops, some guild is supposed to say hey, I want Sont.

Then, they have 24 hours to kill the MOB.

If they decide their schedule changes, then they are requested to give timely notice (so > 24 hours doesn't elapse - 24 hours being the required amount of time allowed to kill the MOB in the first place.

The idea was NOT to get into putting "dibs" on a non-rotation MOB, because that makes it by definintion, a rotation MOB.

Bara

Pretty sure we've both covered why we dont think Yel should be rotated...

We...dont...intend...to...kill...him...every...tur n.

We were going to take token Yel's here and there when time ect... now this huge mess we may end up taking Yel's regularly.

I have always regarding the Unrotated Ubers post as an advance warning system for mobs which arent regularly rotated.

What happens when two guilds post for the same Sont, after he has spawned, and neither of them were the last to kill it?

Posting intentions does not designate something as a rotation, all it means is that there are stipulations before someone can wax the same mob twice in a row.

I agree with Wyvern here. The posting of intentions on the unrotated list was always intended to be ADVANCE notice. How the hell is someone supposed to a) know that their spawn is up (ie, Sontalak), and b) gather the necessary forces in a short timespan given to point a?

Posting intentions means that you want to kill something next time its around, nothing more.

Both Hoss and Vindication have now stated that we DON'T want to kill every Yelinak we can get our hands on. This should 100% justify that Yelinak should REMAIN an unrotated spawn.

Baramos, Rohaise, please listen. Vindication wants to kill Yelinak next spawn, Hoss the spawn after... ML can have their way with Yelinak for weeks after that with no interference. What is the problem?

Oh, I know what the problem is. ML can't deal with the fact that Vindication made arrangements with Hoss to let Tormax stand for 1 night. And ML is obviously still holding a grudge over both of us over incidents that happened half a year ago.

Anyway, why don't we do this:

1) Move Yelinak back to the unrotated list.

2) Let Vindication kill him next.

3) Let ML kill him after.

4) Let Hoss take him after that.

Is that ok for everyone?

Oh and btw Roh, Hoss has attempted Yelinak 3.0, got him to enrage on our first ever Yelinak attempt with about 36 people. Sure, we didn't finish the job that night, but I don't forsee a problem dropping him. Vindication has yet to attempt him, but I'm sure they will have no issues with that fight either.

Andaas -

You're remembering incorrectly. Also, 24 hours is plenty of time to garner the forces for a non-rotated uber MOB.

This is what we discussed.

The intent to kill is to be posted when the MOB pops, as I listed above.

Now, there is obviously plenty of interest in Yelinak to make him a rotation MOB. 4 guilds in fact. This, by the letter of the rules, which Ciner asked to be adhered directly to, is what has happened.

And, in this case, since our appeal to reason was denied, ML intends to exactly follow the rules.

Baramos

Heh, we wern't even trying to be ass's about the deal with Hoss, but a deal had been arranged and I had informed my guild about it already. So couldnt exactly say ok things changed now.

You guys took it personally and now want this Yel rotation which in the end will probably equal less Yels for ML than if it had remained Unrotated.

Dunno just seems like the ML reps get hot headed hella fast. Especially when you've been left alone with Yel for like two months...

BTW Andaas, to speak to your problem with a "grudge".

A grudge exists because of a pattern of behavior. Grudges don't easily fall away, and they never fall away by mere words. It takes actions. Your actions led to a grudge against Hoss by ML, and only actions can undo it. Reasonable actions.

Now, ML feels that it has been more than reasonable.

We put ourselves in the back of the rotation first, you recall.

We were very relaxed about the NToV business, with both Hoss and Vindication. We've been agreeable, in general. We posted our intentions to give some latitude to Hoss on ST Warders.

However, we're not going to sit by and have our good intentions swallowed and not acknowledged.

Vindication has shown by word and deed that they are oblivious to attempts at good relations, so far. That being the case, we only have one recourse - and that's to live by the rules of the IGB, which is precisely what we're doing.

Baramos

The issue of Yelinak is forgone in my mind now, as ML has declared that they will be taking it no matter what.

"The intent to kill is to be posted when the MOB pops, as I listed above. "

This is not written anywhere except in your posts.

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Vindication has shown by word and deed that they are oblivious to attempts at good relations

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It would seem that the enforcer style tactics you employ on the forum are to blame with this, do you see Hoss and Vindication at each others throats presently? No, the reason for that being that we are fine with giving each other leeway. Perhaps you should consider why relations are always different in the direction of sour with ML.

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We were very relaxed about the NToV business, with both Hoss and Vindication

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As I recall, the latest situation dealt with only Hoss and Vindication, why were you in a position to be unrelaxed? Every other Ntov situation that has arrisen has dealt with how to give ML space so they could learn the section of the zone.

Bara I dont know if your blind to your own members or what.

But Roh is pushing every single person left and right on almost every damn spawn.

Then you expect us to be so very kind and respectful of ML's obviously "good intentions" when the time comes. Instead of remembering what a bitch Roh was about nearly every mob that pop'd?

Wyvs dead fucking on, Hoss and us had a huge falling out awhile ago, yet you dont see us at each others throats at all. We are pretty respectful of each other and give each other what we need.

Ever wonder why ML is always having trouble with Hoss and Vindi? Maybe because these "good intentions" you see so clearly are highly invisible to us.