Rotation Schedule

BTW, here's a quote from Roh's version, to be even more clear, Andass.

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Make it 7 days.

There is then no question of respawns.

Guilds that can clear it in 3 or 4 days can then pick a single block of 3-4 days without having to drag out a several day long raid waiting on respawns of initial and clean-up raids. E.G. if the previous guild took 5 or more days to kill their mobs, you don't have to run in right away and sit on your butts waiting on respawns. You can do more useful things while mobs are respawning and then just go in the last 4 of your 7 days.

You can then kill Aaryonar in whatever order you want without messing up other guilds. You can start in the back, front, or even sideways if you have the means without anyone dictating exactly how you must spend your fun time.

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Continue to read through that thread, and at the end of the thread, you can see I'm asking for more inputs (which no one provided.)

As you can clearly see, an agreement by all guilds is still yet to happen.

Etc. Don't know why I'm bothering with this, when you're obviously just making trouble for fun.

I suggest you go back to that thread, and continue to add to it, with the learnings that all three guilds have gotten this month.

I think one thing is certainly clear, and that is that we're not getting along well enough to "handshake the rotters" as I'd hoped.

We're going to need something formal there, in some way.

Bara

Well lets agree to something simple, ML took too sont's last weekend, one out of rotation. Vindi took two Zlands last weekend, one out of rotation. I don't care if sont spawned in your bedroom, he was up and you killed him and you got ST key so that counted as a sont.

Edit: spelling, and don't make fun of me if I still have typos!

As far as 24hr passes and Ntov... I think its clear that the 24hr 1/month extensions were supposed to be used on a single mob, such as any of the 'rotated ubers'. If you want to say NToV rules haven't been hashed out and ratified yet, you can hardly claim the 24hr 1/month extension should apply. All that being said it seems that Hoss, Vind and ML have all offered up some comprimises some of which are very similar in nature, why not go that extra step and get it together and agree on something.

Baramos,

If you are curious why I designed that rule, it was quite simple. It was to create a stepping stone. That rule could have been implemented on several levels, to insure that progression was being made through the zone, however it was left at Aaryonar because most of the other dragons are trivial.

I honestly would not have brought this up had Mythic not overlooked that rule on their last raid after the patch, as well as not failed on Aaryonar after the patch as well.

In a sense, Mythic has failed a test of NToV already, by only beating Aaryonar once. Perhaps it was luck that allows you into the back end of the zone, perhaps not.

Regardless, the Aaryonar rule was not contested by anyone, not even Mythic Legion, except that Mythic seems not to want to abide by it.

Can I ask what ML plans to gain by starting NToV from the back?

This is a simple rule that was put in place as a requirement for success, as well as a way for a guild to lose/fail the raid early. This requirement is in place to ensure that your raid is of sufficient strength to be fighting in the zone - and is a rule that applies to ALL guilds doing NToV, not just ML.

Because the rules are still in flux, I firmly believe that "majority" rules in this case. This rule was stated, and not contested by anyone until tonight.

Kill Aaryonar within 48 hours of the patch and all is well, fail or don't attempt him and you raid is over - simple as that, as stated in the rules.

Vindication took one Zlandicar, according to rotation, didnt have to trade with lmalla because of time, but we did.

The ML second sontalak was an out of order slaying.

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Originally posted by Baramos1
We have made it clear - crystal clear - that we're test driving a set of rules that we can mold that we can all find reasonable.

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I agree that they are being molded still, however, the rules as proposed have not been opposed. Thus, these are the working rules until they are further molded.

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Rohaisa already responded to the point of the "gatekeeping test" saying that once proven, it doesn't really matter.

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The "gatekeeping test" is something that ML failed on their 2nd time through. How does this not matter? If ML cannot field a raid strong enough to pass this test within 48 hours of their raid start, THEY LOSE, RAID OVER.

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No rules have been ratified by Mythic, and I personally think it's bogus to require people to continue to "prove" anything, just because you think we should. Mythic flat-out refuses that "clause" of the proposed set of rules, in fact, if that was your intent of the statement.

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Mythic doesn't hold final say on ratification of any rules, any rules would be agreed upon by a vote of involved guilds. The NToV rules should have input and majority ratification by the current active guilds, Hoss, ML, and Vindication, we can include L`Malla at this point as well if you wish.

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One someone's killed Aary, I don't really care what order they kill the dragons in. As a matter of courtesy, it would be nice for them to kill Aary first, but no requirement.

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Just because you can kill Aaryonar yesterday, doesn't mean you can kill him today. Guilds are evolving entities, they are stronger one day than they may be the next. This is an ongoing test to ensure that your current raid is strong enough to continue.

Many people in Hoss feel that the Aaryonar rule should only be 24 hours, I don't entirely disagree with that, but I will stand with 48 hours for now.

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So, no, there's no FFA act, because there's not a ratified set of rules yet.

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Of course it will be an FFA act, because everything done against against the rules of this forum is an FFA act, at least in your eyes Bara.

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It grows old hearing the same old "FFA FFA" cries from you Baramos.

The Aaryonar rule was created to push rotations along. That was the sole reason for it, and if you misinterpreted it I'm sorry. Ignorance of the proposed rule is not an excuse however.

If Aaryonar is not killed on Thursday, I will stand behind Vindication entering NToV and killing on Friday 100%. The zone will belong to them in my opinion.

Andaas,

That single NToV run we had was all within a single 7 day period. We had already killed Aaryonar within our allotted time for it. If you want to change it to say he has to be killed in 48 hours if he respawns during your run, then just come out and say so, don't cause more shit here by saying we 'failed' in there, because we didn't.

Baramos' statement was to ensure you were crystal clear that ML WILL be in NToV Thursday to Tuesday, doing it in whatever way we goddamn well please, and it won't interfere with the next guild in rotation.

You need to step back a bit and relax man, grab a coke and a smile, and stop trying to wave how big yer manliness is just to get attention. My guess is you were bored again yesterday and had to start something. Knock it off. You want to do bullshit, create a bullshit forum and fill it up. Don't come here though and cause trouble just to do it, it's grown very, very tiresome.

To be completely clear here, again, ML will be doing this:

Tonight killing Tormax and Lend
Thursday killing Eashen, Aaryonar+
Friday killing more in N ToV
Saturday killing more in NToV
Sunday killing more in NToV
Monday if NToV not clear, killing more in NToV
Tuesday if NToV not clear, killing more in NToV
Wednesday checking rotations to see what we are up for based on patches, spawn trades, etc.

Got it? Good, now stop causing shit just to look big Andaas, all it does is make you look like a petulant ass, which everyone here knows you are capable of rising above.

On Sontalak, the leaning is going to calling it out of order, ML will go by that, and sit out our next rotation. (ie, a single rotation)

Updating now on the schedule, anyone else kill anything last night beside the CT and ST I know about for ML?

Also adjusted Yelinak to reflect L`Malla status correction.

Vind is still up for Ragefire, please don't let the rotation hang again, Nagafen due tonight, should be a raid going in for him per the D Ro schedule, just double check it to see who is up.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Quintall_ML
Thursday killing Eashen, Aaryonar+

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That was all that was asked.

It is not about anyone's manliness, it is about conforming to the rules that others adhere to, nothing more. You have stated that you plan on meeting the rules that others have agreed to, so I see there is in fact not a problem as Baramos led me to believe.

Also, I am not "causing shit to look big". My guild wants to return to NToV in as short a time as possible, therefore it is my best interest to ensure that the rotation moves along. The Aaryonar rule was put there to make sure the rotation had a point of failure for all involved. And yes, my guild had asked me specifically about Aaryonar dying within the allotted time (which they feel is too long already).

Let me clarify this again, Andaas, maybe I should have written that better. ML will be in NToV killing shit, from wherever we fell like, in whatever order we fell like, starting Thursday and ending Tuesday.

The rotation will move NO faster no matter how we start it, as Vind will be in there post patch in one week, so calm down and stop sounding so damn greedy. After multiple Vulaks, you've no reason to push it any harder than anyone else, and believe me, ML wants the rotation to move along fast as well.

However, we won't be bullied into doing it *your* way if we don't feel like it.

(holds her head to keep it spinning from reading this thread)

Ok...everyone...take a deep breath, and look at how freaking stupid this argument is. ML is up for ToV this week. From patch day to patch day.

WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE WHEN ML STARTS? We have a week in there, and we won't go past the following patch day (Which is 7 days from last)

People...let ML do thier thing there...and stop meddling. And you guys do your thing in your rotation slots. I absolutely cannot beleive the bickering here. This IS a group of adults...is it not? Can we please start acting like it?

Mythic Legion approached me about my thoughts on an NToV rotation guideline. I created a first draft of these guidelines that most people were fairly agreeable to.

This included a "pass or fail" test on the dragon named Aaryonar, one of the first spawns in NToV. This test is in place to create an element of risk in your raid... if you have a bad day, a bad week, whatever, it means you fail and move on.

The rule is to apply to everyone that plays in this zone, and is not specific to ML, Vindication, Hoss, or anyone.

I don't understand how ML can preach adherance to every rule in this forum, yet they will not abide to this rule that should have zero bearing on you, since you have in fact proven you are capable of killing Aaryonar.

ML failed on their last attempt(s) of this dragon. This means that the "test" of the zone is something that is not a sureity. That is why the "test" is there, its a possibility of failure so that someone else may take a turn after you a bit sooner.

I don't know how you can't understand why I am trying to enforce this rule. It was written with a reason, and that reason was to end NToV raids short.

With regards to ML's previous interrupted raid, your actions by starting in the back had serious repercussions on the following guilds raid. I agree fully that respawn is not an issue in this event, however, that was not the full intent of this rule.

Andaas,

We've tried to make this clear before about that following guild's raid. THERE WERE NO REPRECUSSIONS.

When we left N ToV, no less than Aary, Fesh, Dag, Lord K, Lady M, Koi, Vyemm, and Vulak were ALL UP.

I know this, I was there. Any comments about them not being up is flat out false, they had all respawned with the patch, and the only 5 dragons we killed after the patch were Jor, Nev, Cek, Sev, and Zlex, along with the named Drakes that path around the Ring, Eashen, and Ikatiar.

How much clearer do we have to be about this? I have NO CLUE why they took as long as they did, the ONLY wait they would have had was for the back five, and they *could* and *did* have 6 days to clear Aary and the ring, and try Vyemm and Vulak, as all of those were up.

Can we drop that now? Thanks.

And by your own initial post in the V3 thread, a respawn during the raid is another thing entirely, as the test has already been 'passed' in the first 48 hours of the raid. And it's also something ML has YET to agree with you on.

This turn affects no following guild's rotation, there's a patch at the end of it, just say good luck ML, and let's move on already.

I have already agreed that respawn has no bearing on this particular raid. You also know my reason for creating the Aaryonar rule.

Why not just kill Aaryonar? There would be no issue if you just go and kill Aaryonar as the rule proposal has stated since v1.

Is it because I asked that you have Aaryonar dead by Thursday? Hell, kill him by the end of the day Friday. The fact is, there is a 48 hour rule placed on Aaryonar to incur the remote possibility that one of us fails to benefit the other guilds.

Why can't you accept that concept?

I think Andaas just wants Aaryonar dead to prove to him (and this forum) that you can kill him in an orderly and timely fashion and that if you cannot (which I highly doubt) you will move along for another guild to move into Ntov so the rotation will move a little bit quicker. You have killed him before, so this should be a trivial matter to ML and should be easily accomplished within 48hrs of your raid starting, I dont see what the big argument is about?

Incase ya missed it, Kland and Lendi down, Zland hadn't spawned yet or was ganked by NK while everyone was sleeping.

What Andaas is asking is that Aary is dead in 48hrs of your raid.

He is correct in the statement that Aary is the test of Ntov. If you cannot kill Aary then you really dont belong there.

Seeing as you have killed Aary I'm uncertian as to why you are being so defensive.

Vindi has no problem killing Aary plus 3-4 other dragons in 24hrs. ML should have no problem having Aary dead in 12hrs since you have 2x the numbers of Vindi. Okay, was a little joke but seriously, you should have np killing Aary in 48hrs ML.

Kick Aary's butt and prove you can infact lay claim to your Ntov rotation.

I believe the reason Andaas is in doubt is because your success rate for Aary is 50%. Thus he simply wants some conclusive evidence one way or another.

Reguarding Sont, I expect ML to be sitting out a rotation, stop ignoring this heh... You got two, stop trying to walk around it!

Reguarding Zlan.. we got one, read it, one Zlan. Which we traded spawns with L`malla for even though we didnt have to. Zlan had been up 28 hours when we killed, it was a favor.

Your post "Don't give me that shit about how we should be checking." ... Bullshit, you want on a rotation you sure as hell should be checking.

Here's the thing:

ML HAS proven that we can kill Aary, in fact, we killed him our first attempt.

The arguement is simply that there shouldn't have been one in the first place, with the patch following the run from ML, there should be no issue which direction we kill things. I doubt we will start from the back, it's just assinine to try and hold us to something like that for no good reason, when it's already been proven.

Ciner, regarding Sont, scroll up, and then look at the schedule. You there?

Who was your last phrase addressed to anyway?

L`malla, Rezz specificly.

Should have addressed it to me specificly since I was the one accusing you of taking zland out of rotation. I wasn't on Sunday for more than a few minutes, and I guess I didn't get the whole story on what happened, but my statement technicly stands, it was out of rotation, but apparently there was a trade. If zland was up 24hrs~ like you say then you did in fact do us a favor and I thank you for the trade.

You folks should put a mule there.

It sucks seeing spawns going to waste, especially in the case of Zlan who if you do not kill in a certian time despawns.

That is why we went immediatly once the 24hr window had elappsed.

Ciner,

Hoss killed zlan on friday. Why would Lmalla check on zlan on sat? I mean he normally is a 5day spawn is he not? And if u had an eye witness that zlan was up for 28hours why didnt you say anything on sat? That would have been the courteous thing to do is it not? I mean It was IG who was checking on YOUR ragefire while you were off in ntov was it not? And pretty sure more than one zland was killed this weekend. But hey what do I know.

Lets be nice and stop being such fucking pricks.

I heard Night Kids ganked Zlandicar yesterday - dunno if it is true or not but that's the rumor.

I think in the future we need to make it a rule that guild's cannot use a monthly pass on ntov mobs. Period. If you have to pass on other mobs you are up for rotation-wise on the first day of your NToV raid - so be it. Let someone else have something to kill too. (before you flame me - I said FUTURE - every raid AFTER this current ML slot - forget ML this time, it's as good as done).

Just a reminder - Next Tuesday - the night before patch day - is Druzzil's scheduled TOT3 event. I noticed ML and Vindication (as well as Hoss) all have teams entered. Good luck in advance everyone.

As far as ragefire goes, I logged a monk and checked the lair every couple hours for the 3 days prior to patch.. never showed his face

Yes Than the same courtesy L`malla showed the rotation when they killed 4ish Sev's this weekend, as I was recently informed.

Not cool...

4!!!!! eee gad! so vile, so whoreish, so lame.

Im taking back all my gnomes...you all can die.

so the rumors are true that hoss killed 4 vulaks!? Sirensa u bad bad girl!

I WISH we killed 4 sevs this weekend! LOL. We killed sev saturday night, which was GM controlled, which you were aware of because we were discussing it at the time. I believe moments later you guys had a gm controlled dragon spawn on you as well.

I didn't think to mention it as a rotation spawn since it was GM controlled and not a normal sev, but if you want to call it a rotation spawn then skip us next sev.

Dont lie the rumors say 4!!@

:cool:

HAHA damn dude i feel all special now! People starting rumors about mah guild! phear mah! ROFL

Not tryin to start anything, but does anyone on this board check weeklong spawns every 3 hours after the mob was just killed? Anyway, fine fine, I'll park a mule down there~ on average, we check mobs every few hours a day or so before it's expected spawntime up till it pops, Zland wasn't supposed to pop 20 hours after he just died (going by precedence here.. he um, doesn't normally to my knowledge) so we weren't checking, we'll rectify that.

Andaas -

I don't care why you say you designed that "rule".

ML doesn't agree to it.

I think that as a test, it's a fine way to "gain admission" as I've already said.

The IGB is not a governing body. It's not a mini-NATO. Majority does not rule. This is a place where we schedule events, and try to get a long as best we can. If all the guilds cannot agree on a particular incarnation of the guidelines, then we must work to make sure that all do.

The Aary rule as you propose it is not acceptable to Mythic.

On the other hand, our normal modus operandi is to go for Aary first, anyway.

However, we're not going to be bound by it.

We'll do NToV in any order we please. Sometime, heck, we may not kill him at all.

Yes, ML agrees we should adhere to rules, once we agree on them.

Read my lips. Mythic doesn't agree to that proposed rule. We asked you to *propose* some guidelines that we would think about. ML thought about it, and ML doesn't don't like that one. Strike it. Mythic Legion, once a proven force in ML, has no reason nor need to "prove" anything

Mythic plans to always go into NToV in our rotation slot. Mythic will kill the dragons in whatever order we please.

Mythic is not going to argue this point again. If you want to ratify rules on NToV, then modify that proposal.

Bara

Warders dead Oct 31st... but we just started CT too late were running on fumes.

Going to use our month extention thing on it and get him tomorrow. Tell me if any probs.

Status on Lend and Doz?

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Andaas -

I don't care why you say you designed that "rule".

ML doesn't agree to it.

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If we don't use the "Aaryonar" rule as an early failure indicator for NToV, how about this then:
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The raiding guild must kill a minimum of two (2) of the 15 named mobs (listed in rule 2), each raid day, failure to do so will result in failure/forfeiture of the given raid, and control of the zone will be passed to the next guild in the rotation. Accomodations will be made if respawn issues restricts a guild from killing sufficient dragons.

A guild can build up a buffer of kills during their raid (ie, kill 3 dragons on day 1, and 1 dragon on day 2 is acceptable). However, in the event a guild is using a kill buffer, they are still required to kill 1 dragon on that given day. This is to prevent a guild from taking a "free ride" in the middle of their raid to kill spawns outside of NToV.
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The above is much more strict than the simplistic Aaryonar rule I proposed. However, I feel it is necessary for a raid zone such as NToV to have a rule that may lead to a premature failure for the raiding guild.

Like I said before - we all have bad days/weeks, and the intention here is to make those bad days result in the failing guild leaving the zone. It keeps the rotation moving along faster.