Sorry, I didn't see your post. I was too busy being pissed off at the rod nerf =\
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Sorry, I didn't see your post. I was too busy being pissed off at the rod nerf =\
The mana regen since FoH and SoS/LoS killed AoW have been upgraded severly, there is now Spiritual Purity from Beastlords, another 7 mana regen, bards got a new AE mana regen spell in SoL, there is Mental Clarity and several other things that boosts mana regen. Hell you can even put in Druids into the rotation probably. FT items are *very* common in SoL.
AoW is VERY doable without mod2.
/Aedail
Yea, the two guilds that killed him prior to SoL, killed him w/o mod rods and w/o the tons and tons of upgrades yielded by AA skills etc etc.
Honestly, don't complain that a mob like AoW is now unkillable, or even really hard to kill, it looks bad. He isn't THAT bad, and I personally don't think they even need to retune him.
And yea, LoS did kill him a few months before twice by using charmed giants and another guild, and even then they basically bind rushed him.
You guys all have a perspective that is totally different from 97% of the rest of us. Don't tell me that AoW isn't hard...he is, and not even any of you are certain that you'll be able to kill the same shit with these changes...btw when was the last time you killed AoW w/out modrods? Wont you be thrilled if you find you cannot kill Aten or other VT shit? How many months did you waste on your keys?
Bottom line...people dont play games to balance out some great formula of "how many guilds should be successful" that some game developer dreamed up after snorting 15 lines of coke...they play to win, to advance, to get better...not to be held back because they used their available resources and were found to be too effective (this is neither a complaint or me crybabying because I havent killed AoW/VT, its just the truth).
Its a serious disappointment that modrods are being nerfed, but then again its VI...what can you expect. Mage pets are generally not allowed on raids, and our spells are gay and usually resisted :rolleyes: . So now I guess I'm back to strictly being a CoH whore...Although modrodding wasnt what I signed up for when I made my mage, it was nice to feel like I was making a real contribution...
Kinda funny...they made necro dots stackable just in time for all you l33t necros to start feeding mana again ;)
Part of this was copied from a post I left on Mages Tower.
I must admit when I first heard about the drastic changes I was upset, however if VI does truely reduces the endgame encounters strengths it may not be such a bad thing. I am skeptical about that though. I think bosses in VT, Ssra and Lord Seru wont have the changes needed to allow the current capable guilds to kill him...specifically Emperor. I have become accustomed to 30-45 min fights in SoL but I would really enjoy shorter encounters.
For over a year us mages have been a really busy class on raids....I enjoy the feeling of being needed and essential but Im afraid it may go back to the laughable class it was around RoK. If we are to stay "wanted" we are going to need some serious damage increase and / or ability to use our rods for our own mana regen.
I believe with the Druid/shaman heal upgrades that the loss of rods won't be so drasticically noticed specially considering you have their manapools/regen to help with heals.
btw Empti I hear what you are saying but to be honest the guild doesnt use my rods too much on AoW at this time...last killed a week ago by us.
all I can say now is only time will tell =|
Interesting poll done on Mage board
http://pub6.ezboard.com/fthemagician...picID=82.topic
Empti, think of it this way: this change affects everyone, not just uber guilds or just lower tier guilds. It negatively impacts everyone. It doesn't benefit anyone at all, like some others have been trying to say.
It's more or less a fact that a lot of stuff can't be killed anymore, at least not w/o doubling the amount of clerics you have. That is, if they leave stuff the same. Part of the change is that they will supposedly bring mobs more in line. We will see I guess.Quote:
not even any of you are certain that you'll be able to kill the same shit with these changes...
Mod rods weren't just too effective. They broke the game. Mana for cleric rotation heals etc was effectively infinite. You don't think there was a problem with that?Quote:
they used their available resources and were found to be too effective
That's a interesting thread Ktul. If that was posted 2 years ago, I wonder if the ratio would have been different?
I had fun with the mage before rods entered the game. Yes I wanted improvements with what I was working with. I would hope that pop provides some of that. I would expect the next lvl pets in pop to be atleast a rival if not better then the epic pet. And there should be some half-way decent nukes and debuffs.
But too answer that thread from the magician's tower, if I were to start a new class I would likely try and have fun with another class possibly a ranger or shaman or maybe a necro.
Must... tank... AoW.. before... nerf...
Less Rods... CH not complete... no manaburn...
Less rods and inComplete Heal would make it look like Verant is shooting for making fights shorter right? Maybe not as dependant on CH rotations or even CH at all?
The manaburn nerf would prevent wizards from annihilating mobs with low hitpoints. The rods would also mean less extra mana for nukers and other damage casters.
If you assume that Verant is making these changes with the PoP mob design in mind (as they should be), then people are getting what they have been asking for since Velious release: Mobs with less hp, less CH rotation dependancy, less reliability on CH, etc.
Now I dont understand the monk nerf and it pisses me off, but if you have any faith in verant (at this point you probably shouldnt), maybe the rest of the changes wont be so bad. Time will tell...
*i just jumped into this thread now and dont feel like reading the back pages, so dont h8te if i missed something or a similar post*
Blowth
It's because Zyklan MTs Emperor and Aten Ha Ra :|
So sick of hearing this stupid whining from uninformed people.
Mage DD is the same as any other DD except for most wizard ice and fire spells, which have a mere -10 resist added to them. Stop whining about resists, everyone gets them.
Mages pets are used on most raids I've been on. They don't aggro mobs anymore, so learn to controll them and you won't have a problem unless mobs are aoeing all the time.
At the absolute worst, all the mod rod nerf would do is require you to guild a few more clerics, and put necros in their group instead of the wizard group. Sorry Hoss haters, we will still be killing shit.
High end monks tanked WAY too good. I'm sorry, but a LEATHER class should not tank better than a PLATE class. Hello? common sense here?
And yes, I'm glad they nerfed my class. Manaburning that shit like that was broken.
You have a larger selection of spells. While you can switch to MR or CR and do good damage when something is FR, I switch to my 825 MR nuke that takes the same time to cast and more mana.Quote:
Stop whining about resists, everyone gets them.
Other than that, there is no difference. Being limited to an 825 nuke on almost every non-boss (and some of the bosses as well) is not good. Some places are fine, but mages will never have the versatility you do. There is absolutely no reason for any guild to go look for more mages right now. Why not guild a wizard who outdamages everyone by tens of thousands of hitpoints on every boss? Nerf Wizards :|
Pets? Pets are 20-25 dps on a good boss. My only problem with pets is their level which cause them to miss 80% of the time. I'm happy with pets right now, if I can nuke.
They should have just taken mod rods out, completely.
25 DPS? thats about my warrior's DPS on some of the high AC crap, heh.
You can't seriously compare wizards chewing down serveral rods per minute and a personal necro + healer to anyone else. I'm hearing tons of rogue whining too. What pisses me off is that rogues probably outdamage wizards w/o this support. In fact I'm very sure of it on at least some encounters. I already know rogues chew through VT trash 3 times better than me. Heck my warrior has more DPS now on those. At least I get exp in ssrae.
W/o mod rods, all the matters is ratio. By your own admission, your pet would be doing somewhere around 40k to aten. Now, with aten, I found MR to work the best. Which means our resist % would be the same. So you'd be doing about 80% my damage with spells alone. Although I have spell fury mastery 3, so I guess it would be a bit lower. Anyways I think you drasticaly underestimate your class.
And last but not least, I use ice on only ONE uber mob: AoW. EVERYTHING in VT or Ssrae is either fire or mr (usually fire), and you have both. Ice is seriously starting to suck. And I'm getting annoyed that I need resist debuffs to even come close to melee damage in many situations. Oh, lets not forget mages can debuff too :P
Why are wizards doing 120k damage to a boss without rods?Quote:
You can't seriously compare wizards chewing down serveral rods per minute
And when I parse my pet's dps I need others hits on. I see the warriors and they are all at least double my pet's dps. So it's not like a pet by itself is insanely overpowered. Just wizards :p
And no, my pet doesn't do 20-25 dps vs. Aten. It's was around 8-12 dps on Aten last time I checked /shrug
they do 120k if we tak longer then normal to kill them:)
"Which means our resist % would be the same. So you'd be doing about 80% my damage with spells alone."
Arcius care to tell us how much damage you did with non stop nuking vs wizzies last time in VT? I think it was like 17% damage. Im not against removal of rods but I'd like us to nuke at least HALF as good as a wizzie =|
I'm too embaressed to say =\
It was only 20-25k less on Termariel, but it got a lot worse on Mini-Aten. I was only there for 50% of Aten.
Karen - Aten took longer to kill because I wasn't rodding the wizards. This is their normal damage with clicks / nukes.
dont you have click bewts?:/
Well, I guess comparing Mage/Wiz spell and overall is all good, except for 1 thing. They follow completely different rules.
There are some mobs that the wizzy fire DD will be 100% resisted 100% of the time, while a mage fire DD will work.
Mage nukes are funny that way.
I highlyu doubt that without mod rod, wizards dps will be even close to rogue dps w/o having 2-3 necro feed the wizzy. I guess we'll see.
Perhaps over a long term 10+ minute fight. However, it looks like VI is trying to cut down on that, so that may help Wizzies out in that respect. Nukers in general, really.
Geez, this thread is full of CRACK SMOKERS.
First of all, most of our warriors have bane weapons, so thats why they are doing so much more than your pets.
Second of all, mage DD and wizard DD resist % is almost identical. If a mage can hit it, so can wizards and vice versa.
And lastly, this patch nerfed the FUCK out of wizards. Why? Mob ac was severely cut. We are now bitches to melee once again. To make it worse, concussion is resistable and by the time we have a strong aggro lock on the MT, the mob will be a quarter dead.
Oh, and lets not forget the ancient Mage nuke that rivals ice spear in ratio. This spell alone will make your damage very close to ours. The wiz ancient is ice based, and ice sucks.
Whoa, they lowered mob AC along with HP? Didn't it occur to them that casters might get a little miffed if suddenly melees started doing a ton more damage?
What? No, actually there was only one bane weapon in the guild when I parsed pet last.
My point was not that my spells are resisted more, it's that you have more selection. If Sunstrike doesn't work, you use Elnericks or Solists. If Ancient:Shock of Sun doesn't work, I use my 825 shock of steel nuke. That's a big difference to me.
That Ancient spell is sold in the bazaar right? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by Torrid
Oh, and lets not forget the ancient Mage nuke that rivals ice spear in ratio. This spell alone will make your damage very close to ours. The wiz ancient is ice based, and ice sucks.
A) I mentioned this as an afterthought, not my main argumentQuote:
That Ancient spell is sold in the bazaar right?
B) We're talking about the high end game, comparing EER/GSS and the like, not you newbie mages that get a rush out of owning UP. Garrison's isn't sold in bazaar either, now is it?
C) That spell has a damage per mana ratio of 4.035. GSS has a ratio of 3.888. Once you get this spell, you will be a wizard with the best pet in the game in many situations. Nice balance there.
I don't use solist on anything except exp mobs and AoW. Dunno how many times I have to repeat that...Quote:
If Sunstrike doesn't work, you use Elnericks or Solists
I use fire like 90% of the time on uber mobs. I dunno why, but verant has a hard on for fire.
So I guess wizards own mages on AoW. Thats just reason enough right there to never guild another mage! Man they blow
I missed the ice comment, sorry if you had to repeat it once.
Wizards don't suck. Mages don't suck. Wizards WERE outdamaging mages (by a lot).
I don't think my spells are resisted more often than yours. Of course, I could be wrong. Wizards were hitting Seru for full damage with Garrison's while most of my nukes were under 400 using my Ancient with RSD and Malo in. I don't think the -10 is really much of a difference, but I don't know. I never even brought up your spells being resisted less / more / the same because I didn't think that they were.
I'll return to my crack now.
Key word: WERE. Because you were making rods instead of nuking, and wizards had 3 classes supporting them. That damage is (was) not done by the wizard alone. If you make even a single rod that isn't for yourself, you are skewing the data in the wizard's favor.Quote:
I missed the ice comment, sorry if you had to repeat it once.
Wizards don't suck. Mages don't suck. Wizards WERE outdamaging mages (by a lot).
I don't think my spells are resisted more often than yours. Of course, I could be wrong. Wizards were hitting Seru for full damage with Garrison's while most of my nukes were under 400 using my Ancient with RSD and Malo in. I don't think the -10 is really much of a difference, but I don't know. I never even brought up your spells being resisted less / more / the same because I didn't think that they were.
I'll return to my crack now.
Seru resists wizards too, and rather badly. I'm not stupid though, that -10 actually makes a difference in this case, but its not huge by any means. Also it may be my imagination, but crits tend to hit for full more often than non-crits...
And that crack line was mostly for the other people :D
I meant last Termariel / Mini Aten (and Aten too, of course..but I 10k'd at the start). There were 0 wizard rods and I nuked the whole time.Quote:
Because you were making rods instead of nuking
I'm still going to return to my crack!
mmm
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!
http://pub6.ezboard.com/fthemagician...cID=7282.topic
Damn you're cool...and really good at flaming too. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by Torrid
B) We're talking about the high end game, comparing EER/GSS and the like, not you newbie mages that get a rush out of owning UP. Garrison's isn't sold in bazaar either, now is it?
I think that Torrid doesn't know you Empti, but his arguement is still viable, they were talking end game (SoL) spellines and comparing them none of which are sold in the bazaar btw so slow down the flame wagon.
~Lons
More the tone lons, you're telling the wrong person to stop flames!
Look again, Ktul. They lowered the bolt damage a lot and changed Sun Vortex (level 65) to evocation :(
HAHAHAHAHAHA
:D
Torrid is right, Huge Nerf!! Torrid you crack me up!! Your patience is unreal..
Hate to let everyone in on this, but Necro's are the biggest dmg dealer in town! Period! End of story!!
They can out dmg me by 10-20% on boss type fights.. And they are more versatile then other casting classes by alot.
brb with my necro.......
... said the wizard with one of the largest mana pools on any server, garrison's, ancient concussion, FT 15, and has been eating rods and mana fed since velious.
Btw correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't melee get the kill on the last emp?
:rolleyes:
I have FT14. Rinna was the first wiz in Hoss to FT15 when I had FT10.
If the fights in POP are short, then wizards will be more effective.
I was making a joke mainly, but Aalenu claims she did 145k+ to Aten. This is more then any single wizard did last Aten fight with no Rods, thats all I was saying sheesh. All the wizards did over 100k. I have no clue how much melee dmg is done on an aten fight by any single class.
I do not really care, I love my wizard and always have unlike some people.
People need to relax..
I love my mage :D
I just hope the PoP mobs have the high ac of the luclin mobs, then wizards would own.
Ssssssshhhhhhhhh.....Yes, 150k or so no problem on Aten! Let's make a necro damage group. Fire dots land, nukes land, right click nukes land mmmmmmm. Oh, I mean we suck =(, necros do no damage and have no survival abilities etc...no one should ever want to play a necro, oh the pain. Gonna shut it before we get nerfed for the 5464564 time.
TC