Woman fired for eating PORK

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The woman KNEW the issue before she took the job, she decided to eat pork anyway, not once but twice, probably without consulting her bosses on her feelings toward the policy.

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As far as this being a religious issue, its not. Vegetarians could argue the same case with different views, but that does not lead to being religious.


The bottom line is, she's no different then anyone else in this world. She recognized a flaw in a company that would then lead to a perfect opportunity to work for an organization that wouldn't have enough binding agreements to force certain issues in court about the *eating pork* idea that was being influenced in their work center. Therefore she began to eat her pork and when the company fired her she did what she set out to do from the beginning, start her law suit.

some people would say this is smart thinking to be able to notice something so little but yet so big while others would say she has no morals and she lacks respect for others. I personally could care less which of these statements is true, b/c the majority of Americans in today’s imperfect society are yet blinded by their own reality, and heres where the irony comes in. They don't even realize it.

PS: i just wanted to be in the book PEOTR!!!!!!!!! hahahah

Sorry I haven't been able to post to this thread for a few days. Honest, I've been writing a manifesto.

People seem to think I support the business, or that I believe the business has legal grounds to defend the lawsuit. In our current situation, I'm afraid the business might be SOL.

What I really feel - I don't care about the business, it's not my business so I have nothing to say about it. And sadly, I do believe the business will lose this lawsuit.

For a country that is supposed to be founded on freedom we are curiously driven to legislate what people can and cannot do. We are curiously driven to take businesses or people to court for the purpose of ... well, it seems like for the purpose of making money, although we pretend that we are 'punishing' the evil company. We are curiously driven to create laws that over-define things that are already illegal.

Freedom begins when you are allowed two things and required to do two things:

You are allowed:
1) The freedom to do what you want with your own life - this includes total ownership of your own mind and your own body.
2) The freedom to do what you want with your own property, including your own business.

You are required to:
1) Be responsible for yourself and your own actions.
2) Not create a harm or hazard to others.

We are a multi-cultural society founded on the premise of Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness. In spite of this, many organizations are bent on forcing everyone to homogonize to sameness. This happens in all spectrums - left, right, conservative, liberal, religious, atheist.

Since we lack any guiding principles, we legislate. It's a constant game in this country to see who can force a legislation on other people. We also refuse to take responsibility for ourselves, and we require our government to create huge safety nets for that save us from stupidity. Hell, I'm gonna sue Sony for creating an addictive game that has ruined my life.

We must 1) Take responsibility for ourselves, and 2) Realize that we have no right to dictate to anyone else. Anyone attempting any legislation that interferes with Rule 1 or Rule 2 should be in violation of the law.

I hear some people saying, "AHA! But the muslim company was dictating its principles to the woman, not the other way around!"

Perhaps, yes, but living in a free, multi-cultural society requires all of us to accept others and to realize that other cultures and lifestyles will have an impact on us. This is just like a line of restaurants - one is Chinese, one is Italian, one is Mexican, one is Thai, one serves sushi, and one is a steakhouse. You don't expect the Mexican restaurant to serve Chow Mein, and you don't expect the Italian restaurant to serve ridiculously expensive and minute portions of vinegar-flavored rice. But you may enter each restaurant of your own free choice. You may decide to do business with whichever establishment suits your tastes and mood.

The Mexican restaurant cannot legislate that the Hindu restaurant serve beef.

So - we have freedom of restaurants. And don't tell me the woman would be allowed to eat pork on the premises if she worked for a vegetarian restaurant. And don't tell me that vegetarianism is a form of religion, either. Each restaurant is allowed to be what it wants to be, and is free to succeed or fail based on its appeal to customers. From this tiny principle comes the great correlation between enterprise and freedom - if you are determined to live a particular lifestyle, you must create or acquire the wealth / property that allows you to live without compromise.

Freedom begins with the right to do what you want with all that is yours. If you are allowed any freedom at all it must be the freedom to be yourself and to do what you want with your own property. If a Muslim living in a free country is not able to create a business where he feels his business and his employees represent his values, then we don't live in a free country. Welcome to the basic of Fascism.

Heil Hitler! Let the beatings begin.

-- Peotr (The Normal Guy) ©™

P.S. Sure, you can be a Muslim in our country. But you gotta be a Muslim that acts just like the rest of us Americans.

P.P.S. In an article in the 1932 Enciclopedia Italiana, written by Giovanni Gentile and attributed to Benito Mussolini, fascism is described as a system in which "The State not only is authority which governs and molds individual wills with laws and values of spiritual life, but it is also power which makes its will prevail abroad. ...For the Fascist, everything is within the State and ... neither individuals or groups are outside the State. ...For Fascism, the State is an absolute, before which individuals or groups are only relative."

Would we even be having this conversation if the woman worked for PETA rather than a Muslim company?

Ok. I'll shut up now.

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Originally Posted by Vinilaa

Would we even be having this conversation if the woman worked for PETA rather than a Muslim company?

Ok. I'll shut up now.

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Then she would just be a hypocrit.

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Freedom begins with the right to do what you want with all that is yours. If you are allowed any freedom at all it must be the freedom to be yourself and to do what you want with your own property.

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To define freedom in such ways in what humans can and can't do and/or have would take to long. To have the right to choice what you want to do and when you want to do them is a conversation for the birds, per say. Everyone stacks certain life values into the freedom category, when the truth of the matter is no one is totally free, which would rule out the term FREEDOM. We all live in a world despite our rules and differences that are based off laws and those laws will forever restrain us from being totally free. Yes one might say you have the freedom of speech and the freedom to protest, (that fall under the 10 commandments) but yet people can be put in jail for just saying “I will kill you”.

From the day a toddler is brought fourth into this world, they are taught to follow certain rules, and guidelines throughout its development process of becoming an individual. Some of which aren’t defined in any contract or agreement that ties Americans to live by but yet they are still influenced and can be punished for.

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You are required to:
1) Be responsible for yourself and your own actions.
2) Not create a harm or hazard to others.

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If one were free then wouldn't the freedom to do as you pleased when you wanted to rule out both of these ideas?



Webster defines freedom as one or all of the following:

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1. The condition of being free of restraints.
2. Liberty of the person from slavery, detention, or oppression.
3.
a. Political independence.
b. Exemption from the arbitrary exercise of authority in the performance of a specific action; civil liberty: freedom of assembly.
4. Exemption from an unpleasant or onerous condition: freedom from want.
5. The capacity to exercise choice; free will: We have the freedom to do as we please all afternoon.
6. Ease or facility of movement: loose sports clothing, giving the wearer freedom.
7. Frankness or boldness; lack of modesty or reserve: the new freedom in movies and novels.
8.
a. The right to unrestricted use; full access: was given the freedom of their research facilities.
b. The right of enjoying all of the privileges of membership or citizenship: the freedom of the city.
9. A right or the power to engage in certain actions without control or interference: “the seductive freedoms and excesses of the picaresque form” (John W. Aldridge).

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Food for thought, for every one of these ideas, (for that’s all they are) which is based around a perfect society which we are not, there is a rule and or guideline that’s either in writing or not by legislature that will counter act and out rule your whole mentality of being free. Now this will draw a lot of speculation and will lead to, well we are free, we have to freedom to (insert what you think defines freedom here) and I would have to agree to a certain extent that we are free to choose what we want to THINK b/c no one can control your thoughts. It’s just when you react to your thoughts and they become reality one realizes how far freedom goes. So the question at hand is, are we as Americans totally free? The answer would appear to be false, but then everyone has their own opinion on what they consider being free means.

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The Mexican restaurant cannot legislate that the Hindu restaurant serve beef.

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You are correct, they cannot. This was not done.

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If a Muslim living in a free country is not able to create a business where he feels his business and his employees represent his values, then we don't live in a free country. Welcome to the basic of Fascism.

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No that is not freedom, that is bigotry. He is NOT free to hire and fire people using religion as a criteria. Following your logic I should be able to create a corporation wherein I only hire white male christians. It is my background and I do feel most comfortable with people of this ethnic and religious background. That policy would be predjudiced and would rightfully be called into question.

Those defending the boss are in effect saying to me that because the boss is a muslim he should be granted special rights based on his religion. No, not in my country. He has the same freedom to choose his religion as everyone else. But the same laws protect him from being fired based on his religion prevent him from firing others for that very same reason.

The corporate policy was based on a religious more, that is illegal. The fact that she was fired was based on this illegal corporate policy. This woman lost her job because of and illegal corporate policy, she was wronged, she should be able to collect for this. It doesn't matter if she intentionally set out to cause a stir, what the company did was illegal. She's right and they are wrong.

PETA is a private not for profit institution. The laws governing it are different. They are fully able to allow only vegans to join. Now if they were a corporation paying taxes, selling stock, etc then the laws would be different.

Thuggo you are right. However, they did not exclude this woman from their organization because she was Catholic... They tried to create a lunchroom where EVERYONE felt comfortable. They did not expect her to be Muslim or to adopt their faith, they asked her to please refrain from flouting the tenets of their faith on their property. There is a subtle difference here I think you're just choosing not to see it. ;)

I still lub though! :o

KOOLAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I like that quote Vin. I thought that most e e cummings stuff barely made any sense :D

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Originally Posted by Eomer

I like that quote Vin. I thought that most e e cummings stuff barely made any sense :D

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It all makes sense to me... :eek:

But it's an odd sort of sense...

Buffalo Bill's
defunct
who used to
ride a watersmooth-silver
stallion
and break onetwothreefourfive pigeonsjustlikethat
Jesus
he was a handsome man
and what i want to know is
how do you like your blueeyed boy
Mister Death

- e.e. cummings

/e Takes a Bite how of his Hotdog, then stares at the pork hes going to have for dinner.

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Originally Posted by Vinen

/e Takes a Bite how of his Hotdog, then stares at the pork hes going to have for dinner.

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Damnit get the hell out of here with your nasty pork products!!! :D

Yummy Hotdog!, this has to be one of the cuteist pictures i have ever seen.

Hi Peotr you don't know me but we have very similar views on moderation and tolerance and I really liked your posts. At first glance I swallowed your arguments hook, line and sinker however on a second reading there are some things I must nit pick. In the interests of fair play I'll just tip my hand now and let you know I'm probably one of those who has replaced religion with logic. If I'm going to accept your beliefs as my own I require consistancy.

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Originally Posted by Peotr

This is America, and we've shitcanned all those oldfashioned ideals about tolerance for the idiosyncratic, the irregular, the nonconformist, the peculiar, the asymmetrical, the novelty, or anything that is a deviation from our blandness.

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So you are saying that America used to be more tolerant and is moving towards less tolerant as time goes by? I don't think this is true but maybe I'm just a victim if revisionist history, can you provide links or recommend books that support this?

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true freedom is the right to do anything you want provided that it does not create harm or hazard to others (including your dependent children). Outside of that right, true freedom requires that you accept others as they are, it means that you understand that others WILL HAVE an affect on your life, and you are required to be vigilant in the protection of other people's choices of expression. Freedom means TOLERANCE for others. That is freedom.

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Someone already brought this up, you seem to be redefining the term "Freedom" this is not a good way to premiss your arguments. If you are just saying the freedom we are supposed to have, I don't think you are making it clear enough. You seem to be actually redefining freedom.

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I was bartending at a local bar when one of the waitresses came to work from an Ash Wednesday Mass with the little thumbprint of ash on her forehead. A customer got pissed about it (I don't know why, she was a really cool and very sexy woman) and he complained to her and then complained to me.

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If the waitress was not cool and not sexy, could you understand the problem the guy had with her ash print?

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Welcome to America. We cherish making fun of other country's beers, customs, food, laws, business methods, lifestyles, fashion, sexual practice, movies, media, etc., while being equally bored with the tasteless sameness of our own.

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Does making fun cause harm?

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P.S. If you want to come back at me with a whole bunch of "What about this? What about this? What about this?" statements, then you don't get it. And if you don't get it, you're still part of the problem. Feel free to disagree with me, we can argue this over and over and over until you get it.

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Are you saying that you are "right" and can prove it with logic?

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People seem to think I support the business, or that I believe the business has legal grounds to defend the lawsuit. In our current situation, I'm afraid the business might be SOL.

What I really feel - I don't care about the business, it's not my business so I have nothing to say about it. And sadly, I do believe the business will lose this lawsuit.

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I think your "fear" that the business is SOL and your "sadness" over them losing the lawsuit might lead people to believe you support the business. But that's just me :p

I find it strange and interesting that I agree with your philosophy but come down on the side of the woman in this case. Do I get it, or will it take a few more years?

Yendii Wazzup

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P.S. If you want to come back at me with a whole bunch of "What about this? What about this? What about this?" statements, then you don't get it. And if you don't get it, you're still part of the problem. Feel free to disagree with me, we can argue this over and over and over until you get it.

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This statement is the main reason why i disregarded Peotr's initial post. Maybe he thinks hes got it... and maybe im myopic, but I can't see this quite so clear as him. Perhaps im in the same boat as Yendii, and its truly sad that its going to take me weeks, months and years until i finally get it.

Or maybe im not the one that needs to get it.. Maybe logic is so twisted and reverted that the most basic principle is overlooked. I don't know what true freedom is.. but this day and age, anytime anyone loses a right, even if its eating pork, people are going to object. Unfortunatly, somehow, someway, we all got stuck with the patriot act. Thats a much bigger issue and loss of freedom than eating bacon at work.

agree

I would argue that all bets are off when you impose your will on others. This guy had the freedom to worship as he pleases, regardless of me thinking that his religion is <insert unflattering word here>. Then, he said she couldn't either.

Wanker :D

I think I can sum this all up with something a good friend of mine used to say, "I love pork".

I like getting porked. Hmm. Get it? PORKED.

laffo. :|

AAAARGH! Very busy, no time to reply.

Sadness overcomes me. I will return to this on... like ... Tuesday. =(

-- Peotr (The Normal Guy) &copy;&trade;