Rotation Schedule

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but nowhere does anyone say it is wanted regularly

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Er, ML kills Yelinak every spawn day without fail. That's not regularly, how?

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That from citing past experience where Hoss requested warders moved, ML did not. Mob was not moved.

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The mob was not moved, but ML specifically told Hoss that we would relax the rotation and let the dragons stay up for several days if necessary so that Hoss could kill them on a weekend, which was the only day they had enough people on according to Ciner.

Mythic Legion was more than fair in that case.

Also, in that case ML was killing ST warders every spawn day without fail as well.

Again, if one guild wants a mob regularly, and other guilds want it as well, then it's obviously a rotation mob. If other guilds decide they don't want to kill it every single spawn, they can certainly "pass". That's why passing is acceptable.

Of course Andaas, dont see why one guild would make the decisions on weither a mob moves or not...

Which ML seems to think is there privilage..examples..

1)Not moving ST when Andaas requested so.

2)Now moving Yel because they wanted it so.

Wyvern wrote:

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So if it doesn't apply to Yelinak this time, what does?

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A strict interpretation of the IGB Guidelines, specifically rules 1.a and 1.b.

In response to Andaas -

The solution is very simple.

A mob belongs on the rotation list when the following happen:

1) A guild is killing that mob regularly, AND

2) Another guild determines that they want to kill it.

There is no "voting", it's just a simple function of logic. And it's beyond common sense. If one guild wants to kill it every time all the time, and another guild enters the picture, then making it a rotation mob is the only fair way to go about it.

I'm willing to yeild and let ML have Yel first, but you folks need to realize you do not run the Rotation Schedule.

As such you should not be moving things without others agreements.

Some of us do the same shit you folks do just with half the numbers, so would be nice for you folks to look around and realize you dont run this board... and what you say isnt the end of the issue...

We could do without statements like "ML is taking Yel no ifs ands or buts."

I disagree, I think Andaas's suggestion is quite reasonable. If its "beyond logic" then I'm sure all the guilds will agree and the Uber can be moved.

You're interpretation is one view Rohaise, however, if you look at the rules defined for the unrotated uber list you will note the following:

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If you are interested in fighting one of these mobs, this is the place to post intentions. Do not post intentions if you cannot follow through, or give timely notice if your plans change (ie, >24 hours).

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This means that a guild can post their advance intentions to kill a spawn (before it spawns, duh). Vindication did this, and Hoss chose to do the same. Yelinak was then moved to the rotation list per Baramos' request due to thinking that a full rotation was needed, when it seems from comments from both Vindication and Hoss, that it may not have been.

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For mobs that we all agree should be handled in this fashion, whichever guild was last to kill the specified mob give a 24 hour time frame upon respawn for others to make an attempt (not 24 hours per guild, just a single 24 hour period).

This 24 hour period can be waived if the repeating guild confirms with other proven capable guilds that they are not interested in the spawn on respawn day.

After 24 hours, the repeating guild can have there way with the mob.

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Rohaise posted:
Er, ML kills Yelinak every spawn day without fail. That's not regularly, how?

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You have not been following the rules. Were you checking with other capable guilds before killing Yelinak again within 24 hours of his spawn? No? OMG, bad kitty.

Vindication has proven capable of killing Yelinak, as such, should have been contacted per the above rule.
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FYI, these rules are being posted to be as "strict" as ML is trying to be. There are rules that were created on the unrotated uber list that the rotated list rules were not adjusted for.

This is why I have proposed we make a bridge in the rules between the two lists, since it is something that needs to be done.

Please take the above post over rules with a grain of salt... it was just an example, heh.

Voting is not reasonable. People will vote for whatever helps them at that moment in time rather than voting for the big picture.

In this case we now have 4 guilds wanting Yelinak, and the "votes" are that it should remain un-rotated.

Do you really, *really*, think Yelinak should be an unrotated mob?

If so, what will it take to make you change your mind?

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Originally posted by Rohaise
Do you really, *really*, think Yelinak should be an unrotated mob?

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Me personally? Yes.

Why you ask?

Well, Yelinak really doesn't drop anything that great. The only reason I see to kill him is for the ST key. Thats right, Yelinak is an ST key dragon, lol.

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Vindication has proven capable of killing Yelinak, as such, should have been contacted per the above rule.

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Actually, no they haven't.

Yelinak is in no way the same mob they killed in the past (what, 2 or 3 months ago?)

ML is still the only guild who has proven they can kill Yelinak v3.0.

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Please take the above post over rules with a grain of salt... it was just an example, heh.

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If you are going to use such a pointed example, pick one that can be taken with more than a few grains then.

Andaas -

Posting intentions was on the day the MOB popped.

The way that rule works is that Sont pops, some guild is supposed to say hey, I want Sont.

Then, they have 24 hours to kill the MOB.

If they decide their schedule changes, then they are requested to give timely notice (so > 24 hours doesn't elapse - 24 hours being the required amount of time allowed to kill the MOB in the first place.

The idea was NOT to get into putting "dibs" on a non-rotation MOB, because that makes it by definintion, a rotation MOB.

Bara

Pretty sure we've both covered why we dont think Yel should be rotated...

We...dont...intend...to...kill...him...every...tur n.

We were going to take token Yel's here and there when time ect... now this huge mess we may end up taking Yel's regularly.

I have always regarding the Unrotated Ubers post as an advance warning system for mobs which arent regularly rotated.

What happens when two guilds post for the same Sont, after he has spawned, and neither of them were the last to kill it?

Posting intentions does not designate something as a rotation, all it means is that there are stipulations before someone can wax the same mob twice in a row.

I agree with Wyvern here. The posting of intentions on the unrotated list was always intended to be ADVANCE notice. How the hell is someone supposed to a) know that their spawn is up (ie, Sontalak), and b) gather the necessary forces in a short timespan given to point a?

Posting intentions means that you want to kill something next time its around, nothing more.

Both Hoss and Vindication have now stated that we DON'T want to kill every Yelinak we can get our hands on. This should 100% justify that Yelinak should REMAIN an unrotated spawn.

Baramos, Rohaise, please listen. Vindication wants to kill Yelinak next spawn, Hoss the spawn after... ML can have their way with Yelinak for weeks after that with no interference. What is the problem?

Oh, I know what the problem is. ML can't deal with the fact that Vindication made arrangements with Hoss to let Tormax stand for 1 night. And ML is obviously still holding a grudge over both of us over incidents that happened half a year ago.

Anyway, why don't we do this:

1) Move Yelinak back to the unrotated list.

2) Let Vindication kill him next.

3) Let ML kill him after.

4) Let Hoss take him after that.

Is that ok for everyone?

Oh and btw Roh, Hoss has attempted Yelinak 3.0, got him to enrage on our first ever Yelinak attempt with about 36 people. Sure, we didn't finish the job that night, but I don't forsee a problem dropping him. Vindication has yet to attempt him, but I'm sure they will have no issues with that fight either.

Andaas -

You're remembering incorrectly. Also, 24 hours is plenty of time to garner the forces for a non-rotated uber MOB.

This is what we discussed.

The intent to kill is to be posted when the MOB pops, as I listed above.

Now, there is obviously plenty of interest in Yelinak to make him a rotation MOB. 4 guilds in fact. This, by the letter of the rules, which Ciner asked to be adhered directly to, is what has happened.

And, in this case, since our appeal to reason was denied, ML intends to exactly follow the rules.

Baramos

Heh, we wern't even trying to be ass's about the deal with Hoss, but a deal had been arranged and I had informed my guild about it already. So couldnt exactly say ok things changed now.

You guys took it personally and now want this Yel rotation which in the end will probably equal less Yels for ML than if it had remained Unrotated.

Dunno just seems like the ML reps get hot headed hella fast. Especially when you've been left alone with Yel for like two months...

BTW Andaas, to speak to your problem with a "grudge".

A grudge exists because of a pattern of behavior. Grudges don't easily fall away, and they never fall away by mere words. It takes actions. Your actions led to a grudge against Hoss by ML, and only actions can undo it. Reasonable actions.

Now, ML feels that it has been more than reasonable.

We put ourselves in the back of the rotation first, you recall.

We were very relaxed about the NToV business, with both Hoss and Vindication. We've been agreeable, in general. We posted our intentions to give some latitude to Hoss on ST Warders.

However, we're not going to sit by and have our good intentions swallowed and not acknowledged.

Vindication has shown by word and deed that they are oblivious to attempts at good relations, so far. That being the case, we only have one recourse - and that's to live by the rules of the IGB, which is precisely what we're doing.

Baramos

The issue of Yelinak is forgone in my mind now, as ML has declared that they will be taking it no matter what.

"The intent to kill is to be posted when the MOB pops, as I listed above. "

This is not written anywhere except in your posts.

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Vindication has shown by word and deed that they are oblivious to attempts at good relations

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It would seem that the enforcer style tactics you employ on the forum are to blame with this, do you see Hoss and Vindication at each others throats presently? No, the reason for that being that we are fine with giving each other leeway. Perhaps you should consider why relations are always different in the direction of sour with ML.

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We were very relaxed about the NToV business, with both Hoss and Vindication

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As I recall, the latest situation dealt with only Hoss and Vindication, why were you in a position to be unrelaxed? Every other Ntov situation that has arrisen has dealt with how to give ML space so they could learn the section of the zone.

Bara I dont know if your blind to your own members or what.

But Roh is pushing every single person left and right on almost every damn spawn.

Then you expect us to be so very kind and respectful of ML's obviously "good intentions" when the time comes. Instead of remembering what a bitch Roh was about nearly every mob that pop'd?

Wyvs dead fucking on, Hoss and us had a huge falling out awhile ago, yet you dont see us at each others throats at all. We are pretty respectful of each other and give each other what we need.

Ever wonder why ML is always having trouble with Hoss and Vindi? Maybe because these "good intentions" you see so clearly are highly invisible to us.