Monday's NToV thing...

Since I know this will be something discussed tonight/tomorrow, I figured I would get things started.

I don't necessarily agree with what happened tonight, but I definately see both perspectives, and can see where everyone is coming from.

First of all, I did originally try to have something defined in the NToV rules about patches and rotting dragons (and yes, ANYTHING that rots due to a patch is a bad thing). In that respect, I can understand Vindication wanting to move into NToV today to try to ensure that didn't happen, when I think we can all say with about 98% certainty that L`Malla was NOT going to be killing Vulak today.

I was surprised when I zoned into ToV later this evening to find Vindication alone in the zone however. As it was L`Malla's turn in NToV, and they should have continued pulling/killing as if there was no other guild there.

To Vindication, I think things could have been handled much more smoothly had you contacted L`Malla about the upcoming patch/rot situation before just barging into the zone. Believe it or not, things could have probably worked out good for both of you had you done that.

Anyway... I don't agree with the "pushing aside" of someone else as was done today, that was really bad form in my eyes. Vindication really should have tried to convince L`Malla *before* today that rotting dragons were bad, and that by allowing 2 guilds to complete NToV on the eve of a patch was a positive thing for everyone involved.

Now we have this event which is just going to leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth, heh.

we all know vindi is talking about going FFA. I would like to congratulate them on short sightedness, and managing to piss off a good majority of their own members, way to be guys real class acts.

Since today's little bout of fun was called "FFA" by vindication, I would like a single day extension of our raid to friday, to make up for the fact we were screwed out of our spawns. And since Vindication killed Koi, Miri, Nev, Sev, Vyem, Zlex, Cek, and is prepping for Vulak now during OUR rotation spot, not their own, wouldn't this be the majority of the spawns and constitute them taking their turn out of order? Either way, Monday was fucked up, my guild got screwed out of spawns that were rightfully ours, patch or not Vindication acted with full knowledge they were killing another guild's spawns and against standard procedure on this IGB forum.

Question for L`Malla here:

Why did L`Malla leave NToV tonight? You guys could have killed several dragons still and not made the night a complete loss. :(

First of all, we didn't read any l33t strats on the zone, we don't have 20+ members armed in primal, we have never even been in NToV ever before Friday evening. Hell, we all ran at Ikatiar wearing poison gear because his name sounded like he had some poison AE. We tried almost every dragon twice because we had no clue what the hell to expect most the time, disregarding Ikatiar, Jorl, Kreizenn and Dagarn because uh, Ikatiar didn't even have a freaking AE, Red dragon screams fire ae to me, white dragon screams ice, Dagarn was a red wurm.. yeah, not too hard to predict those. Unlike Vindication and Hoss, we didn't have a month+ to figure out the spawns, or even a full 7 days yet, we are learning, just like you did. Having Ciner tell an officer in my guild 'You don't even belong here, you can't even handle the back area spawns" as the reason they were killing stuff on our spawn... it's our first time in the zone, we are trying to learn the damn mobs, and having ones we haven't even tried yet killed without our consent on OUR turn. Lag from having an additional 45 people in Nwing, already laggy clerics and attempting to learn the mobs didn't increase our chances of killing. Our pullers were working with Zlex and them, trying to figure out if they were splitable, and Vindication ran by and whack Nev while we were trying. The only waste was our rotation day, and it wasn't wasted by us.

And to answer your question, we didn't leave early at all, closer to midnight pst.

Ahh.. I zoned in around 11:00 pst and saw only Vindication in the zone - it looked like L`Malla had pulled out (well, there were 2 or 3 L`Malla at the zone in... but I figured you weren't trying to pull NToV dragons there, heh).

I realize that you are learning the zone, we've all been through the test pull, test fight, etc., process.

Kinda rude to be told you don't belong in the zone though, shrug.

Hah, okay dont wanna get into a lot of this...

But, I'll say what I know and people can hear our side of it. When I first logged in people were talking about how ntov was going to rot as L`malla clearly couldnt kill everything in a day.

So, I asked Taur to speak to his friend in L`malla, who turned out to be Lorpse, to see if it was ok with GC if we killed Vyemm and Vulak. Lorpse said GC was fine with it(Taurean has screens of this if needed). Once we heard GC was ok with it we began heading to Ntov and I opened up CoH.

After I've CoH'd 30 people Dlgoth sends me a tell something to the reflect of, I heard you had spoken to someone saying it was ok to kill Vyemm and Vulak, its not ok we want these mobs(and the rest I gathered). Dlgoth hadn't been on earlier, when I tried to send him a tell.

So we've CoH'd 30 people, more otw, had to make a desicion to roll with L`malla and leave or let mobs rot to patch. Wasnt easy and we argued quite a bit in GC about this.

Thinking back to the inital formation of the IGB I clearly remember patch days as being FFA, we dont want shit rotting, we play this game to kill mobs. Perhaps this rule didnt get carried through, but, even still we found it irresponsible of L`malla to let Ntov mobs rot to patch when they are just incredibly in demand.

So we cleared on over to Kio, took a while with all the debating and such. We asked if L`malla had killed Nev, wondering if they were going to have time for this mob, before attacking). Heard they had failed Nev 2+ times. Engaged and slew the best.

Healed up, checked to see if L`malla had killed Nev and was going to have time for Mir possibly? Found only 13 L`malla in zone though and thus assume some sort of death had just happened(failed Nev again I guess?). So again, swords twirling, fists blazing, another dragon was brought to its knees.

Then we had a delema, wernt quite sure what to do. The clear choice would had been to go to backdoor and finish those dragons who obviously wouldnt be too hard, but we saw 50+ L`malla still in zone and understood they would still be killing Nev.

So, we braced our bodies and brought on the mighty Vyemm. He knocked us around like a yo-yo... but in the end he too died and spat his last curses upon our blood drenched swords.

Now it was around 2am and we were not sure what to do, still 42 L`malla in zone, down from the 65 for the first for Nev attempts. So we figure, we'll start clearing over there and see what there up to when we arrive... we fight through drake and wurm alike. Eventually arriving at L`malla, we note now only 36 in zone.

So I ask what officers on. Send Atrist(sp) a tell saying something to the effect of "If your having a hard time with Zlex/Nev... we can kill Zlex for you and you can get Sev/Cek, there loot stinks, but at least ya folks can own some dragons tonight."

She(he?) then said my in game personality reflected my out of game personality and I must have been abused as a kid to be such a flagrant bully. I then replied "How did you know, so are you interested in Cek/Sev to give your guild something to kill?" ... she said something about how we could do whatever we wanted, we'd do it anyways.

Noting L`malla had failed Nev 3+ times now and currently had 36 members only left, who were just sitting there... we start to clear to Nev, at this point the 36 L`malla left in zone decided what they couldnt do with 65 they clearly couldnt do with 36 and left via the gateway to Plane of Mischeif.

We slew Nev Zlex Sev Cek within a few hours, began to pull the Vulak drakes but just didnt have the time as GM was giving us the 30 minute warning.

Now the simple question is: Would the mobs have rotted?

Simple answer: Yes.

While I feel for L`malla that they cannot yet kill some of the backdoor dragons, I cannot let my sympathy interfere with my duty to my chosen guild, Vindication.

The thing that bugs me the most about the whole night, is that Vulak rotted. This should never, ever be happening. Had we not debated with L`malla, over mobs in the end that would have rotted, for an hour, we would have had time to save him from oblivion too. But, hey, you win some and you lose some!

1, Lorpse isn't an officer
2, Wtf does it matter what number of people we have in the zone? 1 cleric = no raid amigo, thanks. You honestly expect us to tell people "Sorry, we only need one CoH bitch on this raid, don't come."?
3, I don't remember 65 of us in the zone, I do remember the total number in the zone hitting 103 or so, 47ish of you and the rest us. yeah, 65 =)
4, the 36 of us sitting around when you rushed past us while our monks were working with Zlex was closer to 40, with 4 clerics. Dunno if you noticed, but I'm pretty sure you guys use a trick (since you mentioned it in a previous post concerning Hoss killing it) to avoid the AE, one that we weren't aware of. My mind told me "hrm, 40 people, 4 clerics, hoshkar like dragon, we aren't aware of the trick. lets leave it alone." At this time, we found out that Vindi was prepping for nev, the only non-vulak or Zlex room (which we were still in the process of working out how to pull) dragon. That is when we pulled out, sir.

Yeah, we got surprised, I think we figured out the "Trick" with zlex though, I'll post it later or something so you guys can verify. Would be nice to find out a "trick" of our own, though I honestly dont think we are so original in this game of tried and true tactics for farming. On a side note, Lyubm enjoyed the show when he got back from AFK. I can't believe you guys actually set up a hospital for Nev. Must have been some po'd members in GC eh? Personal shots aside, I think us staying a 4th day (Vind's first run was what, 8 days?) makes up for the um, bullshit last night. Not like it'll postpone the rotations, we just want fair shots at all dragons, not having ones we intended to kill taken while we are in the zone =)

I'd prefer to keep all "trick's", tactics, strategies, and other information like that out of this forum.

Should you have discovered something that will give you an edge, you should keep it to yourself, since not everyone that reads this forum may know that info. Its kind of like telling someone how a movie ends before they've seen it, /shrug.

For all the info about EQ on the internet, surprisingly, there is very little tactical data about NToV available. That isn't to say it doesn't exist, as I recall seeing a few bits and pieces appear at certain times over the past 2 months that I didn't appreciate my competitors learning, hehe.

I'll bet Hoss, Vindication, and ML all do things quite differently in NToV as suits each guild best. I can almost guarantee that Hoss does several fights back there very different (in pulling and fighting positions) than anyone else on this server, and likely other servers as well, hehe.

Ciner like I said last night, you know how to get ahold of me pretty much 24 fucking hours a day. You KNOW I have AIM running ALL DAY at work and you've contacted me before on it.


When it was in your best interested to try to set up ST runs with L`Malla you were on AIM talking to me, but when its in your best interests to avoid me and claim someone said you could have our mobs, you have no way of contacting me?

The whole thing is bullshit and you know it.

Dlgoth,

Can you e-mail me your aim name? jasonszkola@earthlink.net.

I need to talk to you some (unrelated to IGB stuff, just as two old school people). Im not on much but do want to talk to you about something :)


Ubar

I wasnt there so im not getting involved.

Ciner,

Nice spin. Won't work. That was taking a rotation spot, pure and simple. On no other turn that there was a patch coming during it, (yours included, there was plenty of emergency patch warning), were the dragons considered FFA. You know it as well as everyone here, so don't try to bullshit us.

Every single guild on the IGB has heard and been shown via eamils and whatnot, how Vind intends to FFA the server starting with SoL. You've been flexing testing it for a bit now, and it's time to put up or shut up.

There's a reason other servers look at Druzzil and wonder how the hell we can support 3-4 'Uber' guilds, it's called the IGB and the cooperation it lends to us. I know ML won't let D Ro become like the new AB Euro server, and I'm 99% sure no one else here on the IGB will.

You actions in N ToV were inexcusable, and any attempts to lighten them or explain them in such fanciful storytelling is quite laughable. ML is voting that you should lose a N ToV rotation spot.

The things you get in email. Normally I wouldn't put these up here, but since you feel the need to spin things to try and get out of this Vind, it seemed appropriate to show how things really are seen by you.

Ciner, you are such the lying type, it's a wonder you don't have two tongues:

Quote:

---

Ciner
Jebus
Member # 29
posted 11-27-2001 09:21 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Man, felt great last night to save mobs that were going to rot to patch. Thing is the IGB has gotten out of hand heh, when you've mobs rotting to patch cause its soandso's turn, something is fuct.

---

Quote:

---

Kryai
Member
Member # 71
posted 11-27-2001 10:41 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
last night was quite a lot of fun, even though malla was being gay when they could not kill any mobs and still wished to save them for patch. Just another reason FFA should be put into place.

---

You know, that's only a short sampling of a very interesting treatise on going FFA and trying to fuck the rest of the server. There's lots more, including serious discussion of awakening the Sleeper and stopping others from getting Primal. Truly Ciner, tell us how this was all in fun or joking around again. Pull more wool over our eyes and make us think yer some kinda 'nice and reasonable' kinda guy, while you sharpen knives for those not already at the same point in the game.

Be a man Ciner, take responsibility for your actions and those of the people you are leading. Cause if you can't do it here, in a game, how the hell will you ever do it in RL?

I'm happy you can read our board but posting private infos dosn't go far in my book. Not even gonna comment on posts you take from reading our board, am sure if anyone read another persons private board they could dig up some trash.

My post on board says exactly what my post here said. The mobs were going to poof, glad we saved them. Had the mobs not been going to poof, would agree to it taking a rotation slot. Not counting it as a rotation slot. You want to mark it down as such go ahead, but once ML's 4 days are done in Ntov we're going in. If you've a problem with that FFA on us Quint.

Ciner,

You leapfrogged L`Malla, not even 6 hours after posting you wouldn't do any such thing during their turn.

You've had member post how 'ghey' it is when guilds do that very thing on other servers, on other guild boards (FoH to be specific), yet there you go and do it.

The IGB bent over backwards and gave you 2 'extra' days on your first rotation of NToV, since ML and Hoss had patches during thiers. Then you got a patch in the middle of your turn anywa, and no one leapfrogged you.

Your actions are inexusable Ciner. ML is voting that killing 8 of 15 NToV dragons while another guild is up there (btw, they had at least 10 hours before patch when you went in), constitutes jumping rotation, and therefore you should be held one out. Be a man and accept that you fucked up.

And yes we've discussed FFA, its really not a secret its all over and the initial post even says. "Board isnt secure but this is something we need to discuss."

The reason its something to discuss is rotations are growing larger and larger while there are less and less mobs to kill... everyone is getting bored. Thank god for SoL, just hope there are pleanty. Like I said in the thread what needs to happen is ubers 3-4 day spawns, would be so much less anger. If mobs wernt a problem I cant imagine why I would even talk to you Quint, and I think we both could appreciate the beauty of that.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Quintall_ML
ML is voting that you should lose a N ToV rotation spot.

---

We vote on IGB punishments, but don't vote on rules? That seems kind of inconsistent.

Hoss and other NToV guilds have all agreed that a few rules should go into place for NToV, and ML stands alone in wanting a 7 day rotation period, claiming that "we don't vote here, we all must come to an agreement".

Can't have it both ways.

And fwiw, I don't read your private baord. I get enough of your lying crap here on the IGB, and honestly don't want to see it there too. You've got unhappy members Ciner, they have email, and they use it, since they can't change it from within without becoming ostracized.

ML doesn't want FFA, Vind does. ML is going to fight you every step of the way if you try to make D Ro FFA, bet on it. And no one will win because of it. You are a loot based guild Ciner, what will happen when the loot drys up because the rest of the server won't accept your little FFA?

The term vote is wrong there, my apologies. ML feels, that per the guidelines of the rotations, Vind has jumped a spot, and should be skipped on their next rotation.