Canada's local jackass - Prime Minister Cretien

[Tilea]

Well if you guys want to blast Canada for soemthing, blast us for having a leader with zero tact and no ability to think before he speaks. Yesterday while the US was paying tribute to the people who died in NY last year, our retard of a prime minister made a statement saying he believes it's the "greed of the western world" that lead to the september 11th attacks. It was all over the papers today, with mixed reaction from the public. Some people actually liked what he said, and the rest were outraged.

If you're intelligent, you're not going to say something like that when everything you say represents an entire nation. If you're even basically intelligent, you're sure as hell not going to say it on a day like Septmber 11th, 2002.

Thanks Jean, you're a real class act. Thank God you're not going to seek re-election.

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2002/09/12/pm_reax020912

[Exitilus]

Was it insensitive? Yes.

Did it need to be said? Yes. (though, not on the anniversary of the event)


-Exitilus, Canadian

[Tilea]

Did it need to be said? No. Claiming that the US was targetted because they're wealthier than other nations is ludicrous. Hell if those countries would stop spending all their money on weapons for all of their tribes and different factions to fight eachother with, they'd probably have a better economy. That's hardly the fault of any western country.

[Exitilus]

Firstly, most of their arms were supplied by the US themselves, at some time or other. Secondly, it's not technically their wealth either, but the near absolute control the US has over the world's economy, coupled with their near invulnerability militarily; smashing planes into buildings and other such underhanded tactics is just about the only way terrorist organizations can even graze them.

-Exitilus

[Tilea]

oh, ok.. so it's alright for them to do things like that then, since the poor babies don't have any other alternative? Thanks for enlightening me.

[Vidmer]

The funny thing about attributing the motivations to others is that we usually attribute our own beliefs onto their actions. Thus we get the equally silly explanations of "They attacked us because of our freedom" and "They attacked us because of modern western imperialism".

Such explanaitions also assume that the motivations are the same for every person involved in such actions.

Statements like these are merely political ploys designed to rally those that agree with the statement and enrage those that disagree. The public sentiment is then used to justify implementing policies the politician believed in before the crucial event took place. Thus we get politicians telling us that the solution to the current crisis is a solution that existed long before the crisis occured. In the immediate aftermath of 9-11 the attacks were used to justify continuing on the NMD program as well as being used to justify the forgiving of 3rd world debt.

So just realize that while Cretien may be a jackass he is not alone in this distinction.

[Eomer]

Tilea, those remarks were stated in an interview in July, the CBC chose to air them on September 11th. Blame them. And you are inaccurately paraphrasing them, IMO. He said that the overwhelming wealth of the Western countries (never once did he single out the US, he made a point of that) may have contributed to the motivation for the attacks.

Normally I hate that gutless arrogant cheat, he has fucked our country quite badly over the past 10 years, especially the west (hi Alberta is being drained of cash so that fisherman in Nfld can sit on their asses collecting EI for years on end).

However, I agree with him. His main point was not that it's somehow the US's fault they were attacked. His main point was that the West (Europe, North America etc) is becoming too rich compared to the rest of the world, and too powerful. He also points out that if you use your power recklessly and embarass and humiliate other nations, it will come back to bite you in the ass. Both things I whole heartedly agree with. The West is continuing to become wealthier and wealthier, while lots of places in the Middle East, Asia, and Africa if anything are regressing. Something has to be done.

[Tremaile]

While we're at it, lets just go right out and say that the USA deserved what it got. /rude Chretien.

I for one have never supported the Liberal Campaign (being from the western provinces myself I was always more of a Manning supporter. No love of Stockwell Day tho *sighs*).

Nobody, I repeat NOBODY, deserves what happened. I think I'm gonna go donate some more blood, just for the heck of it.

-Tremaile

[Lonskils]

so in eq terms we got trained becuase we are uber and they arent, that is so ghey that I cannot put words to it

Lons

[Torrid]

No, the reason why we got planes thrown at us is because we piss the Muslin world off by doing stuff like accidentaly blowing up one of THEIR airplanes with 300 people on it, then giving the guy who did it a medal. Yes, that happened a couple decades ago. But you don't see that on the news. Gotta love the history channel.

[Eomer]

Tremaile, read the full text of what he said. Nowhere does he say the US deserved it. Nowhere does he say it was justified. Don't get me wrong, I hate Chretien and am glad he is finally going to be gone in a few years. But everyone is taking his words out of context and using them against him. And it's only going to hurt Canada in general.

And again, his remarks were not made recently, it's a three month old interview.

By the way, anyone hear how Israel intelligence agents are again posing as Canadians? They even set up a fake embassy somewhere in the West Bank that they took a Palestinian to, convinced him that he would get free passage to Canada in return for information about Hamas, and then once they got their info they tossed him away. He will now face a firing squad of Palestinians for betraying them.

Israel did this same bullshit a few years ago. They sent two assasins to Jordan to kill a Hamas leader, both carrying Canadian passports. They denied it at first, then later admitted it and said it wouldn't happen again. They never apologized. Now those fuckers are at it again.

[Nexten]

I might be wrong but wasn't the hamas leader one of the guys responsible for the killing of the Olympic athletes from Israel..If so i think it's justified

[Eomer]

No. it is NEVER justified to endanger the citizens of another country, w/o first asking that country for their fucking permission. The Israeli government pulling this shit is making it dangerous for Canadians to travel in Palestinians and other Muslim areas. They have NO FUCKING RIGHT whatsoever to lie and claim their agents are Canadian.

And like I said, they outright lied about it last time, then eventually admitted to it, yet not once did they issue any sort of apology. Again they have been caught lying about it, and again they have been caught. I am so sick and fucking tired of the bullshit they pull (drop a bomb, kill one hamas leader and 9 children etc etc), that doing this is inexcusable. It has not been verified, and probably never will, but personally I believe the Palestinian. He has nothing to lose or gain by lying anymore, he knows he is dead.

[Qaediin]

Hehe what do you want them to say eomer, Hi! we are really israeli agents and we are here to kill your terrorist leaders! Move please while i pull out my gun and shoot him in the head. What do you think terrorist organizations do, stop and ask hey pal are you canadian or american? Oh your canadian? You can move on cause we are friendly with you!!. Umm hell no, that doesnt happen. You are "profiled" as being an enemy by the way you look, dress and speak(if given time to say anything) BLAM! Your obit is in the next days paper. To totally disagree with exitulus would be wrong, i think other nations of the "powerful" status should help, such as more medicine, improved disposal of waste, better irrigation and clean water for starters. But here is where you run into a problem, the leaders of some of those nations do NOT want our help unless its in funds to their government and they will umm cough take care of it. Plus add the money the powerful nations have contributed to these countries, the forgiving of massive debt owed to them. So what i am saying is its easy to say HEY..lets fly to yemen and deliver medicine etc etc. But in truth it is very difficult to get that done through the "red" tape.

[Eomer]

I don't want to get into how to solve the problems there, cause that's a whole ugly argument. However, there is a huge problem with having their agents use Canadian cover: it endangers out own fucking citizens. Suddenly a tourist/observer in the west bank saying he is Canadian may, instead of getting a smile and a finger pointed in the direction he is asking, he may just get thrown into the back of a car, driven to a camp, and interrogated because they think he is really Israeli.

It's bullshit, they have no right to be assuming our identity without our permission, and they ESPECIALLY should not be counterfeiting our fucking passports. I and the vast majority of Canadians want nothing to do with that little hellhole on Earth, pulling our names into it without our permission is despicable, especially considering what they do with the information they acquire.

The most recent one, they used the info to pinpoint a hamas leader's house, dropped a bomb on it, and killed 14 other people nearby (9 of which were children). Do you want your fucking nationality associated with that?

[Qaediin]

I understand what your saying, but understand this they wouldnt get there and get whatever they needed done without assuming someone elses ID/passport what have you. The point is they have to get in there using someones identity/nationality, is it approved by the other countries/shrug dont know. Trust me eomer Mr. Uzibulletwithyournameonit isnt going to stop and assume jack, they going into an area where they can do the most damage and not going to yell hey if your from such and such country get out cause im coming in blazing, nor would they stop and ask if your from such and such country before they popped you. Minute you step off a boat/airplane in another country you are being profiled by the natives there, white person/suit/carrying brief case=american/german/canadian/australian/UK etc.

[Eomer]

Actually Qaediin, the majority of Canadians who travel generally have some sort of marking on themselves at all times, displaying they are Canadian. Most travel agencies/experience travelers strongly recommend it, because you get treated a lot better if you do. Otherwse a white/english speaking person is assumed to be American, and to be honest there are a lot of places less than friendly to them.

My friend was travelling throughout southeast asia a year or two ago, and one day on a bus came across another Canadian, as evidenced by the patch he had sown onto his backpack. After talking to the guy for about five minutes, it readily became apparent this guy was full of shit. My buddy asked him if he really was Canadian, and the guy laughed and admitted no, he was actually American, but that he found people were way more friendly when they thought he was Canadian.

[Rezz]

A lot of places? I assumed just about everyone in the world hated us americans =/ What have we been doing so wrong that somebody actually likes us?!

Sadly, it's true though. A couple friends of mine got stopped for speeding or something in cancun a few years back. The guy that was driving was shit faced and obviously not capable of driving safely, while my friends were in the back seat. None of em was very coherant, but the driver was canadian and when asked for his passport and license the officer didn't say shit. When my friends gave the officer their american passports, they ended up getting searched and a warning. Go America!

[Torrid]

Everyone else hates us because we're preventing them from doing what they want: destroy each other :P

[Exitilus]

Torrid : I'm rather certain that if there was no oil involved senor Bush would more than happily allow the various factions in the middle east blow themselves from the stone age into the gravel age.

-Exit