So EQ 1 is now F2P

[Loniel Bonewalker]

Optimal groups were pretty much always fighting, the goal of the puller would be to have the next mob(s) arriving to the group right about the time the previous pull dies. The only downtime being when a healer needed to regen mana; or there was a lack of things left to kill.

exactly, and come now downtime oh wait nm, not everyone was in a kite group. Either way questing for exp is such a blah boring stupid thing. Give me my mobs I can kill or can split pull with feign death etc. The idea of needing a group or any type of mob kill for xp brought so much more to the table (used the word on purpose). Whether it was because your group was not "optimal" and you had to come up with a clever way to still get it done to having that kickass group that just mauled shit.

[Lonskils]

and nothing leashed, nothing.

[Andaas]

exactly, and come now downtime oh wait nm, not everyone was in a kite group.

Why would you group to kite? That seems weird and inefficient.

[Torrid]

The main difference in the mob grinding days was that for optimum output, your group wouldn't be mobile; your group of 6 would consist of 1 tank, 1 healer, and 4 dps (one of which would be your puller). The puller would fetch one or more packs of mobs and return them to the group to be killed. While it may seem boring in print, it was actually a very social experience.

That was the most common scenario of course, but the great thing about EQ was that groups and players could be successful at the game any number of ways. Grinding for exp allowed the gameplay to be much more flexible. Generally groups only stayed in one place if dungeons were crowded or they needed a specific item. Otherwise a group could 'crawl' through a dungeon and take out multiple placeholders. Recently on the project99 red server for example, we were using invis and invis to undead to keep the frenzy, assassin, and evil eye cleared all within the 28 minute respawn window during off-peak hours. Of course that sort of trades a lower exp for higher loot gain, which is yet another example of more flexible gameplay; a group could also clear the way there and back.

The ideal group composition isn't so cut and dry, either. Often (depends on the era, level, and gear) having two healers was more efficient because of the downtime reduction. Also, the term 'holy trinity' originated from tank, cleric, enchanter; not tank, cleric, dps. Enchanter was a class that did zero damage (or sometimes a truck load of damage if you charm), zero tanking, and zero healing, but was invaluable to a group. Modern MMOGs are so watered down that there are no classes like that anymore.

Kiting was also an extremely effective tactic in certain areas of the game, even for groups. Some of the most fun I ever had in a game was when we were raking in the AAs in PoFire. (granted that was a borderline exploit...) Syana and I were actually getting decent exp as a warrior enchanter duo using fear + snare whips when we had to be creative since we had trouble finding people to group with. Coral's enchanter and my druid's snare charm duo was also very good exp. You had all sorts of odd combinations like that; another one was a full group of druids using charm in plane of storms to take down raid targets, let alone get exp. Kiting allowed them to handle charm breaks. Basically outdoors + no summoning mobs (or even summoning mobs if you fear) + SoW + some player skill = you don't need a tank anymore.

Contrast this with WoW and its clones where you solo to the level cap, killing every mob the exact same way, getting half your exp from collecting poop on the ground.

[Lonskils]

Some of my fondest memories was kiting mobs at the table by myself for months on end and learning how to do that and it was nerve racking, but seeing your AA exp actually move every kill was worth it. Although, the night I came along for the Hailie, Andaas, Torrid, Torrin, AOE the entire fucking zone at once pulls was amazing. Of course, Seb was great for that as well.

[Loniel Bonewalker]

Why would you group to kite? That seems weird and inefficient.

group kiting became extremely efficient in terms of doing things like 69.1 (spider shit) etc. Way after you had been gone. Though I use to do kite groups in tactics, when nearly no one was able to get in there it was even better.

[Andaas]

group kiting became extremely efficient in terms of doing things like 69.1 (spider shit) etc. Way after you had been gone. Though I use to do kite groups in tactics, when nearly no one was able to get in there it was even better.

I used to solo-kite in tactics.. /shrug

[Loniel Bonewalker]

I used to solo-kite in tactics.. /shrug

as did I, but I used to kite with Qaediin all the time. and in 69.1 kite groups were the way.

[Aindayen]

Kiting was one of my favorite things about EQ. Knowing a single slip or spell resist and you were scrambling or running back to your body.

I do miss setting up with a group and just exping for hours, bullshitting before vent/mumble.

Dieing and trying to get back to your body because the zone was respawning

[Loniel Bonewalker]

Kiting was one of my favorite things about EQ. Knowing a single slip or spell resist and you were scrambling or running back to your body.

I do miss setting up with a group and just exping for hours, bullshitting before vent/mumble.

Dieing and trying to get back to your body because the zone was respawning

Exactly! save for the last part pssh trying to get your body back...

[Widespreadd Panic]

I logged in and went to click my gnome mask...but my Mask of Tinkering was gone and a mask of deceiving was there instead. it made me a very sad wsp =/ Hell without a sub you cant use any of the raid armor that is on a character from what I could tell, you have to sub. Its free to play chat room from what I could tell.

[Rika]

You can only hold so many items and so much plat for free to play. Everything in excess will be in your mailbox.

[Widespreadd Panic]

I gated an enchanter mule that day also, without looking at the weight carried By the character. I totally forgot that weight mattered in a game. Now she's stuck in EC, and can't walk an inch.... Lol What a bitch! I'm such a dummy! I think games of late tend to spoil.

[Loniel Bonewalker]

I gated an enchanter mule that day also, without looking at the weight carried By the character. I totally forgot that weight mattered in a game. Now she's stuck in EC, and can't walk an inch.... Lol What a bitch! I'm such a dummy! I think games of late tend to spoil.

don't they get like a strength buff??

[Amadis]

I ground hundreds (literally) of AA in pick-up groups in PoP, mostly in Bastion of Thunder. I'd take pretty much anybody who wanted to join as long as I had heals and slows covered. I had a lot more fun doing that than I ever did in 'optimal' super-exp groups where it was always the same mobs, the same technique, the same people.

Being forced to group in one way or another is what made EQ special and unequaled (so far). In games like WoW and SW:TOR, grouping is an afterthought and pretty much a waste of time until you hit the level cap and want to start raiding, with the effect that by the time you hit the level cap you don't know anybody on the server and nobody knows you, unless you made a special effort to group or you went to the same server as other people you knew beforehand. In three characters leveled to max or near max in WoW and SW:TOR, I met exactly two people I talked to for any length of time. In contrast, just leveling my first character to 50 in original EQ I hit the level cap with about a dozen friends I met along the way, any of which I could group with on a daily basis, and we all knew each other's strengths, weaknesses, preferences, etc.

[Andaas]

Very true about the group dynamics of EQ, however, does anyone really think a new game released using that model today would be successful? That was one thing 15 years ago when many of us were willing and able to devote excessive amounts of time to a game. Would anyone really consider playing a game that typically forces/requires grouping and has a slower/longer leveling curve that would take an average player 6+ months to reach the level cap?

I don't think the gaming universe has the attention span for something like that anymore.

[Loniel Bonewalker]

Very true about the group dynamics of EQ, however, does anyone really think a new game released using that model today would be successful? That was one thing 15 years ago when many of us were willing and able to devote excessive amounts of time to a game. Would anyone really consider playing a game that typically forces/requires grouping and has a slower/longer leveling curve that would take an average player 6+ months to reach the level cap?

I don't think the gaming universe has the attention span for something like that anymore.

Would ANYONE? YES.....Would every random retard who now knows what a MMO is want to play? Probably not, but I do think its entirely possible for a game to be like that make a profit and be great even without having to have 11 million subs.

[Valdis]

The problem is that game companies require more then just a profit. They follow a cost effectiveness chart, so if you make $1M a year on your game in profit but continuing to keep the game going, maintenance, development, customer service, PR, and Q/A are costing you $5M a year pretty much no publisher or developer will waste their time. Those numbers are completely arbitrary, I'm sure some of our people who work with/for developers could give better examples.

[Andaas]

Would ANYONE? YES.....Would every random retard who now knows what a MMO is want to play? Probably not, but I do think its entirely possible for a game to be like that make a profit and be great even without having to have 11 million subs.

Ok, let me rephrase that a little, would YOU?

I know for myself, as much as I loved EQ - I don't think I would play a modern version (new engine/graphics, etc.) that had such a steep/long curve. I just don't have that much time.

[Loniel Bonewalker]

Ok, let me rephrase that a little, would YOU?

I know for myself, as much as I loved EQ - I don't think I would play a modern version (new engine/graphics, etc.) that had such a steep/long curve. I just don't have that much time.

Yes, I would. Everyone is different even with limiting amounts of playtime. Then again I do not think there is a need to be at endgame in 3 days as long as there is actual content through all levels. Like I said though everyone has differing views on what makes something good which is why there is more then one thing. Unfortunately the only problem is they all seem to go a certain route.